Selfishness and self interest versus altruism and the greater good are fundamental when discussing the differences between capitalism and socialism (and the sliding scale in between), so I do think it is important to understand what is meant by these terms and how they apply...
Defago's initial argument was that all people only act if there is a monetary or capital gain for them, thus showing that pure capitalism is the only system that will work. This is clearly not true and many examples have been cited to show why this isn't the case. Even the world's most famous capitalist John Rockefeller was as known for his philanthropic acts (ie investing in something purely for pleasure and the greater good rather than for financial gain) as he was for his business empire!
The basic premise of socialism is the greater good... From each according to his ability to each according to his need. It is the foundation of Marxist theory. However as you rightly point out, some people are indeed selfish and greedy and therefore pure communism also has its challenges.
So we need to look at the sliding scale in between. But if we can't agree on what is selfish and what isn't then we are not going to progress much in this argument beyond that!
It's this idealism, however, that the root of all western problems stem from capitalism, as Jason is erroneously trying to prove, that makes no sense to me and sounds more like juvenile anti-establishment bile than anything else.
I said that? We live in a capitalist society so most of our western problems have been within the capitalist framework, so I think it would be very difficult to completely separate the two. I don't think I ever argued that capitalism itself is the root of all our problems. _________________
I said that? We live in a capitalist society so most of our western problems have been within the capitalist framework, so I think it would be very difficult to completely separate the two. I don't think I ever argued that capitalism itself is the root of all our problems.
Framework (n) 1. an essential supporting structure of a building.
"Most of our western problems are within the essential supporting structure of capitalism, but I'm not arguing that capitalism is the root of most of our western problems"
- Jason
Jasonconfused wrote:
Believe me, it's not our farmers that most of my concern is about. It's the sickening history of US imperialism that I'm referring to, but I guess that's a different matter, although not irrelevant.
"I don't have an actual retort, but I heard my humanities teacher say "imperialism" once so I'm going to unnecessarily plug that in here so I sound like I have sophisticated opinions about world politics."
- Jason
Like what are you even talking about? Do you know what you're talking about? Cause it looks like you're just making various plugs to random bullshit you heard on NPR, and then you go ahead and make ridiculous comments like
Jasonconfused wrote:
I find that socialism is really the only economic system that makes any sense.
which are absurdly convicted yet you can hardly even back up. I mean, shit, there's no shame, I ain't no expert, I haven't read a lot of those big political philosophers either, and pretty much all my knowledge about economics comes second hand - but even I know you're talking out of your ass. _________________ A dick that's bigger than the sun.
You're misreading what I wrote, although that might be my fault for not being clear. I'm not referring to the "essential supporting structure" on which capitalism is built. I'm referring to capitalism as the essential supporting structure of the society that we live in.
As for the imperialist comment, capitalism promotes the notion of expand or die, competition. People will do just that in order not to be swallowed up or becoming inefficient in comparison to other businesses. Many corporations have found imperialism and exploitation of laborers in third-world countries that will work for shit wages to be one of the most cost-efficient ways of running their business. _________________
I suppose the best thing I can say about capitalism is that, in a system which openly rewards exploitation, it's easier to identify the scum as it rises to the top.
I'm currently working on a seminar paper on the Workers' Opposition during the early years of the Bolshevik Revolution. Trying to give it my all since its my last big university assignment. _________________
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