I think this idea of "the heart wants what the heart wants" - whether it be romantically or musically - is kinda, ironically, shallow. I was a 11 year-old white boy once (read: rockist) and looking back on it I certainly think my blinders were on by choice. I think we as human beings are incredibly adept at deluding ourselves. I remember knowing a kid who was was such a Gamecube fanboy he refused to admit any exclusive for the PS2 was "fun". That's ridiculous, but it didn't stop him from whole-heartedly believing it.
Abandoning rockism - or any overly-idealistic lens - means identifying and eroding our own biases and understanding their socio-political contexts. So yeah, I think this is an important conversation we shouldn't simply shrug off with a "well whatever people like what they like".
It's called willful ignorance, but ultimately there's nothing wrong with liking whatever you like and not seeking out something different. Obviously it's limiting, but some people prefer choices to be limited. _________________ http://jonnyleather.com
I think this idea of "the heart wants what the heart wants" - whether it be romantically or musically - is kinda, ironically, shallow.
I'm not opposed to analyzing things... sometimes I enjoy it. But I can understand why a forum full of people who love music for its own sake don't want it to be buried in layers of abstract sociology and politics. You can perform an analysis like this on literally every action you take, but sometimes you have to pick and choose where you get your depth.
What's more, these kind of discussions are unlikely to lead to any serious change in listeners. You can look at any type of art/music and at any period in history and there will be large groups of people who think they have it figured out, that they know what makes great music. When I was a kid in the '90s, disco was a novelty genre that no serious person listened to and alternative rock was clearly superior to the ostentatious synthpop that used to dominate the airwaves. We thought we had it all figured out. Good and bad music were clear. Of course, now disco and synthpop are back in and suddenly kids have a new vision of good music, which now excludes much of alternative rock, including grunge and *gasp* post-grunge.
See, these biases, which you're right are silly if you analyze them with any depth, are all part of the fashions that make up the spirit of the times. They're part of the fun. In an earlier post, Mecca was contrasting (most) pop from other music by saying that it was just escapism/mindless fun. For me, however, that's the primary purpose for all of the music I listen to, pop or otherwise.
In short, I can see where Jim and Skinny are coming from. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with kicking back and enjoying the tunes and letting other people worry about the sociopolitical implications, even if all you enjoy is rock music.
OMG I want a trash baby. That sounds like the most adorable thing ever. I'm picturing it wearing a costume made of trash and teaming up with other trash babies to reclaim the trash kingdom which is currently occupied by trash puppies with eyepatches.
It's called willful ignorance, but ultimately there's nothing wrong with liking whatever you like and not seeking out something different. Obviously it's limiting, but some people prefer choices to be limited.
But, as 'rill pointed out in the initial post, the implications of these choices can be damaging on a broader level, too - rockism, for example, holds some misogynistic, racist, and homophobic connotations. _________________ ~❅ ❄ ❆ hµM△₪ FESTIVE †®å§h ❆ ❄ ❅~
The term? or rockists in general? In both situations that's a gross prejudice with no solid reasoning.
Okay, let's run through some data:
*During the "Disco Sucks" campaign, rockists complained about disco by belittling its significantly black and gay audience; this apparently was one thing that made white rock music like REO Speedwagon better.
*When rockists in the late nineties called rap music "retards attempting poetry", it was implying that most black youth could be described with said R word.
*During the boy band boom of the early 2000s, rockists bands like N Sync and the Backstreet boys because they were either "for sissies" or just were "gay".
*From Madonna's start in the late seventies all the way to today, rockists argue complain about female pop stars that flaunt their sexuality, yet are completely okay when white males in bands like AC/DC and Motley Crue did the same.
Guys, I didn't think I had to go in-depth this late into the thread, but there are soooo many instances where rockism came with an implied supremacy of straight white males.
*During the "Disco Sucks" campaign, rockists complained about disco by belittling its significantly black and gay audience; this apparently was one thing that made white rock music like REO Speedwagon better.
*When rockists in the late nineties called rap music "retards attempting poetry", it was implying that most black youth could be described with said R word.
*During the boy band boom of the early 2000s, rockists bands like N Sync and the Backstreet boys because they were either "for sissies" or just were "gay".
*From Madonna's start in the late seventies all the way to today, rockists argue complain about female pop stars that flaunt their sexuality, yet are completely okay when white males in bands like AC/DC and Motley Crue did the same.
Guys, I didn't think I had to go in-depth this late into the thread, but there are soooo many instances where rockism came with an implied supremacy of straight white males
That's very short - sighted actually.
Solely because people who happen to be rockists did what you described (though without any actually links to where you acquired the data, it's impossible to tell whether or not this "data" is true) does not mean all people who we could consider rockists are the same (which means the implication of rockism coming with an implied supremacy of straight white males comes only as a result of tunnel vision). It's similar to those idiots who believe all muslims are terrorists solely because there are a few terrorists who identify as muslims.
EDIT: Just for clarification, I don't actually care much about "rockism and poptimism" as a topic and I don't identify as anything in particular.
Last edited by Happymeal on 04/13/2015 01:03; edited 1 time in total
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