If there's no devil...

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sp4cetiger





  • #31
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 00:52
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For some reason, I imagine Jesus having a low tolerance for spicy food.
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benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?



Age: 27
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  • #32
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 01:36
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sp4cetiger wrote:
For some reason, I imagine Jesus having a low tolerance for spicy food.


Jesus was Jewish too, so if I can take a guess at his digestive abilities based on my own family history, he has problems not only with spicy food but also dairy. And nuts. Just about anything, really.

Billybeattie wrote:
The Devil is a Judeo Christian concept to make you feel guilty about all the things that the said religions want to control in you. Love is the law love under will.


lololol nope. Maybe Christian, yeah, but that's not his point in Judaism. Satan (which should actually be "The Satan" or "The Questioner" or "The Adversary") wasn't meant to make people feel bad. He is, in fact, meant to question people's goodness. He's not evil - he finds evil. For example, with Job, every angel was like "yo god I think he's the one " and God's like "I know right like oh my me he's just so in love with me" and they're all like "yeah he's a good guy." Then The Satan comes in and he questioned if Job loved God for real or if God was just Job's sugar daddy, and God went "huh I never thought of that" and so god tested him as The Satan recommended and only then proved that he was really in love with God. Rabbinically, The Satan is a "human opponent". It wasn't until the Medieval times that any Jews took it as a "fallen angel" or anything like that, and traditionalists still didn't (and many still don't). Only some Chasidic Jews believe The Satan is a "temptress" of sorts, trying to cause evil, and those beliefs didn't even start until around the 18th century, so far as I can tell. For most of us, like the vast majority, like every practicing Jew I've ever encountered, we think of The Satan as more of a metaphor for someone either who is a cynic or a questioner more than the root of evil or the one who causes you to act badly. While some can interpret the Job story as "YOU BETTER LOVE GOD OR ELSE", most of us take it more as "If you truly love god, truly love god, but there will be trials along the way, no matter what, and people will question your faith." Personally, as a Jew who takes the whole of the bible metaphorically (as most, including a lot of rabbis at this point, do), The Satan is just the guy who runs around the table at the meetings of the angels going "wait guys but what about this?". He's the one who raises his hand and goes "Teacher, are you sure that's actually right? I thought the Sun was bigger than Jupiter?" He's in charge of catching people's errors so they can learn, not to punish them. My rabbi's said things similar to this. My history teacher, who is also Jewish, has a whole speech on all of this too, how he hopes to be viewed not as Satan but as The Satan. The views you're referring to may exist in Christianity (I'm not all too familiar with much of Christianity, having only started the New Testament before abandoning it and checking out other religious texts), but Jews, or at least, a lot of Jews, don't see The Satan as someone to make you feel guilty.

TL;DR: The Satan's job in Judaism is actually really vague and is often interpreted as just the guy whose job is to stop groupthink. It wasn't until a lot into history that people started to go "yes feel guilty because satan"
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SquishypuffDave



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  • #33
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 09:50
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^^ best post
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RepoMan





  • #34
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 11:04
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Applause Great post, Paco!!!

At long last, I can listen to metal completely guilt-free! Where were you when I needed you in the 80s!!! Laughing
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Muslim-Bigfoot



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  • #35
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 17:54
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The concept of Satan as a demon, a fallen angel, who is opposed to god, is a borrowing from dualism of indo-european religions like Mithraism and Zoroastrianism, where there are two deities, one for good and another for evil. This is also reenforced by the fact that other Abrahamic religions don't have such a thing.
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Skinny
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  • #36
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 18:00
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Jewish Satan sounds fucking great. That's the best thing you've ever posted Ben, cheers.
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Muslim-Bigfoot



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  • #37
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 18:07
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It seems very strange and interesting to me how western people, people from US and Western Europe don't know about Satan in Judaism. I'd have assumed it to be a shared knowledge around those parts. Weird. Also, The Book of Job is one of the most important literary works of human history, everyone should read it.
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bongritsu
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  • #38
  • Posted: 01/16/2015 20:15
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Defago wrote:
This thread is golden. I missed this, guys. Let's keep it up.

Also could Jesus heat up a burrito so hot that even He couldnt eat it?


this is explained.

God cannot do anything against his nature. He cannot lie, he cannot create a being more powerful them him self (a hot burrito) and he cannot do evil (making a delicious burrito as hot as a solar flare is pretty evil thing to do)
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