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meccalecca
Voice of Reason


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Location: The Land of Enchantment
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  • #11
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 17:36
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Kiki wrote:
If education in America was improved, would the Republicans stand a chance of geting in again? Think


Yes
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Kiki





  • #12
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 17:55
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Would you vote Republican? Shocked
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason


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  • #13
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 18:20
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Kiki wrote:
Would you vote Republican? Shocked


Possibly, depending on the candidates. But very unlikely. Anyone who's completely locked into voting for only one party is blind.
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Kiki





  • #14
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 18:39
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meccalecca wrote:
Possibly, depending on the candidates. But very unlikely. Anyone who's completely locked into voting for only one party is blind.


The bold part blew everything I knew about the world apart Shocked It was like a baloon popping but with much more rocks.

While I talk, the big post meccalecca on the last page covers a lot and maybe should be read if you like the topic.
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satiemaniac





  • #15
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 21:38
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meccalecca wrote:
Possibly, depending on the candidates. But very unlikely. Anyone who's completely locked into voting for only one party is blind.


Anyone who insists that there exists some holy, transcendent centrist ideal between two corporate fascist parties (or in literally any sphere of political life) is the actual blind one, imo.

But yeah education reform in the United States will always have to do with productivity and equality of opportunity rather than true equity, regardless of how much money is thrown into it. These liberal (as in via Smith, Locke, Hobbes and other Enlightenment thinkers, not the American so-called left) ideals are right in line with just as much Republican thinking as they are in line with the thinking of Democrats.
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meccalecca
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  • #16
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 21:52
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satiemaniac wrote:
Anyone who insists that there exists some holy, transcendent centrist ideal between two corporate fascist parties (or in literally any sphere of political life) is the actual blind one, imo.


If that's a response to what I said, then you completely misunderstand. I am no centrist. I'm an outsider—an Independent removed from the two party system. But there's always an ideal. Whether or not it's obtainable is a completely different thing. The two party system is basically a one party ruling class funded by corporations, but there's a few outliers like Bernie Sanders who don't fit within this realm of corruption and greed.
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sp4cetiger





  • #17
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 22:07
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Quote:
Anyone who insists that there exists some holy, transcendent centrist ideal between two corporate fascist parties (or in literally any sphere of political life) is the actual blind one, imo.


Statements like this are why >90% of internet political conversations turn into garbage. So many people choose to lace their rhetoric with simple-minded dysphemisms and transparent partisan bias, as if they're writing airport pamphlets, that it just becomes noise.


Quote:
But yeah education reform in the United States will always have to do with productivity and equality of opportunity rather than true equity, regardless of how much money is thrown into it.


The reality is more depressing than even this. Part of the reason that many teachers don't like to teach in low income schools is that many of the students are lost before they even walk in the door. Given equal opportunities, I guarantee you that low-income schools would underperform solely from the poor family culture that most of the kids come from. When I talk to people who have actually lived the "American dream" of going from poverty to success, most of them had a parent or authority figure who went out of their way to encourage education, discipline, etc. Although teachers might be able to do this in some cases, it's unrealistic to expect them to be true mentors to an entire classroom full of students.

I don't think there's an easy solution, unfortunately, but I certainly don't support taking money away from schools that underperform (nor do most teachers that I've spoken to). If anything, these areas need more money, but any system that rewards poor performance is going to have obvious problems as well.
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HigherThanTheSun



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  • #18
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 23:25
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sp4cetiger wrote:
The reality is more depressing than even this. Part of the reason that many teachers don't like to teach in low income schools is that many of the students are lost before they even walk in the door. Given equal opportunities, I guarantee you that low-income schools would underperform solely from the poor family culture that most of the kids come from. When I talk to people who have actually lived the "American dream" of going from poverty to success, most of them had a parent or authority figure who went out of their way to encourage education, discipline, etc. Although teachers might be able to do this in some cases, it's unrealistic to expect them to be true mentors to an entire classroom full of students.

I don't think there's an easy solution, unfortunately, but I certainly don't support taking money away from schools that underperform (nor do most teachers that I've spoken to). If anything, these areas need more money, but any system that rewards poor performance is going to have obvious problems as well.


There's such a direct link between household income of the student intake of schools and their performance that it seems to me obvious that schools with poorer intakes should have greater funding to compensate. Allow schools in poorer areas greater autonomy on how much they pay teachers and things like this so that good teachers might actually be attracted to them then there might be better equality between schools in rich and poor areas

Just within the state sector in the UK there is such a massive breadth in quality of schools and the one you end up at dictates way more than it should how far you will get in life. Pupil premium tackles this but it's nowhere near enough. This is a thread about murica though sorry..
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meccalecca
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  • #19
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 23:37
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HigherThanTheSun wrote:
There's such a direct link between household income of the student intake of schools and their performance that it seems to me obvious that schools with poorer intakes should have greater funding to compensate.


In theory this makes sense, but I agree with what Sp4cetiger was saying. Greater funding and even better teaching doesn't really always create better results in these areas. With so many problems at home, many of these kids are in such a poor environment that it's incredibly tough to do anything about it in school.

This actually made we think of the season of the Wire based around fixing the schools. It's rather complicated.
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HigherThanTheSun



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  • #20
  • Posted: 12/27/2014 23:46
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Yes, the culture of aspiration doesn't exist as much in schools in poor areas but it's definitely not true that the quality of teaching will have no impact on the quality of education that students receive at these schools. Sounds like an excuse to do nothing which is pretty weak
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