Transracial_

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Poll: is being transracial chill?
no it is not chill bruh
68%
 68%  [15]
yes it is chill bruh
31%
 31%  [7]
Total Votes : 22

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Gigantic




Location: [color=green]Christmas Island[/color]
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  • #1
  • Posted: 06/15/2015 16:33
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so transracial... -ity(?) is a thing now

i thought it was stupid up until i read this article in the Guardian, written by a transsexual, bashing trans...transracism(?):

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...el-dolezal

aaaaand my world got turned right upsidedown. im pro-transracial now. ive officially gone full-sjw. stop triggering me.

frankly, despite this author's insistence, i dont see much of a diff b2ween "transgender" and "transracial" - both gender and race are social constructs, for example, and many of the problems the author sees with transracial...ness (?) could equally be levelled against transgendered ppl ("do u have the right 2 assume another identity w/o its innate social baggage?") but doesn't necessarily illegitimize either (also its v clear that the author is trying to dismiss transracial...ing out of feat that it delegitimizes transsexuality w its existence)

r we fighting transracial...eze(?) bcuz it further challenges our notions of identity + makes us mad uncomfortable? couldnt the theories of judith butler easily b applied to racial identity? wat do u guys think?






inb4 "but otherkin" no. full stop. species is not a social construct. we're not going there.
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Satie





  • #2
  • Posted: 06/15/2015 18:23
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i'll just paste what i wrote in the Gender Identity thread:

It's an ahistorical and materially destructive thing to conflate gender and race. This is a key part of intersectionality that gets lost in translation - the intersection of different matrices of oppression is important, but so is their disjunction. To specifically elaborate on this, transgender identification predates Stonewall, Year 0 for the contemporary western LGBTQ movement. Transgender identification is a historical reality and one that has a long, diverse history of acceptance in some cultures and violent subjugation in others. The only way that we know to stand for transgender rights is because of the lived experiences of transgender people that are communicated to us. "Transracial" identification is not a historical reality, and to my knowledge, Ms. Dolezal does not even claim such. Any of this Wrongskin business you see is 4chan parody.

There is another problem that is present in "transracial" identification. Passing for white as a black person was actually a crime (punishment being death IIRC) for many years, and even now, the one-drop rule serves to establish white as "normal" and other races as "variations" and so it is important to note that this identification is only materially safe for white people "identifying down" if you will. This is hugely problematic because it comes off more as an extension of white guilt that is extreme than genuine identification. Compare this to transgender identification, which does not come from identification with the oppression of women and a bleeding heart to free them from patriarchy but rather from a "feeling" of being a different gender identity (again, going off of the expressed experiences of transgender people).

Ms. Dolezal's identification comes across as incredibly opportunistic. She never outrightly claimed black identity, something that would seem necessary and edifying for someone "transitioning" to a different race (via bronzer and a perm), but left it as a perpetual blank space. She made thousands of dollars for paintings of a false African heritage and invented threats against her person to "validate" her presentation. She secured a six-figure NAACP job and the ensuing speaking event invitations and prestige that come with such a position. Most importantly, she went from being a white woman who probably had very good intentions and empathized strongly with black struggle to a white woman taking up space through insinuation and silence when directly asked about her racial identification and pushing out the voices of African-Americans who had actually had these lived experiences. When you talk to transgender people, they don't have complete fictions about others identifying them as the opposite gender early on but rather have stories of their dysphoria in their biological sex. None of these themes come across from Ms. Dolezal.

And I think that's the most important point here -- no one is claiming a transracial identity, and this conversation is becoming incredibly widespread among primarily cisgender white people. It is infuriating, to paraphrase my friends of color on social media who have discussed this issue, to see the real life destruction of black and brown bodies and material oppression of these people get put on the sidelines for a thought experiment. We do not come to new identities through thought experimentation but through hearing the testimony of people who truly "feel" and inhabit new identities.
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Gigantic




Location: [color=green]Christmas Island[/color]
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  • #3
  • Posted: 06/15/2015 20:04
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gr8 post

permafrost wrote:
It's an ahistorical and materially destructive thing to conflate gender and race. This is a key part of intersectionality that gets lost in translation - the intersection of different matrices of oppression is important, but so is their disjunction. To specifically elaborate on this, transgender identification predates Stonewall, Year 0 for the contemporary western LGBTQ movement. Transgender identification is a historical reality and one that has a long, diverse history of acceptance in some cultures and violent subjugation in others. The only way that we know to stand for transgender rights is because of the lived experiences of transgender people that are communicated to us. "Transracial" identification is not a historical reality, and to my knowledge, Ms. Dolezal does not even claim such. Any of this Wrongskin business you see is 4chan parody.


indeed the closest example i can think of is lafcadio hearn - but we for 1. cant account for the possibility of marginalization out of existence and 2. historical precedent doesnt have 2 b the only legitimizing factor. it could b a reaction to the postmodern decay of "identity"

permafrost wrote:
There is another problem that is present in "transracial" identification. Passing for white as a black person was actually a crime (punishment being death IIRC) for many years, and even now, the one-drop rule serves to establish white as "normal" and other races as "variations" and so it is important to note that this identification is only materially safe for white people "identifying down" if you will.


isnt this also true of gender? "female" has often been seen as just a variation on "male" - freud's diagnosis of woman as man minus penis + lacan's assertion that woman lack the ability to enter the symbolic order w.o a dick (woman is the sex that isn't one). by these terms a mtf transexual could be seen as "identifying down".

permafrost wrote:
This is hugely problematic because it comes off more as an extension of white guilt that is extreme than genuine identification.


i dont use the "g" word - what defines what is "genuine" or "authentic" r often at the liberty of the speaker. re:postmodernism again but u could levy the accusation of "inauthentic" or "ingenuine" against anything or any1.

permafrost wrote:
And I think that's the most important point here -- no one is claiming a transracial identity, and this conversation is becoming incredibly widespread among primarily cisgender white people. It is infuriating, to paraphrase my friends of color on social media who have discussed this issue, to see the real life destruction of black and brown bodies and material oppression of these people get put on the sidelines for a thought experiment. We do not come to new identities through thought experimentation but through hearing the testimony of people who truly "feel" and inhabit new identities.


in the end u have sold me however - this talk of transraciality IS mostly just a thought experiment (Ms. Dolezal's case sounds more like Borderline Personality Disorder than a crisis of identity, granted) - but 2 bcome angry because u think ur cause is being marginalized bcus ppl are held up on a thought experiment? i think thats ridiculous. u could levy that against literally anything evr. i cant believe ppl are excited about VIDEO GAMES at E3 when POLICE BRUTALITY IS RAMPANT RN!!!

+ its not like we have nothing to gain from participating in such an experiment. i think this debate raises good q's abt transgendered issues & definitions of race. its also popularizing notions of gender and race as social constructs which i think is important.
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sp4cetiger





  • #4
  • Posted: 06/16/2015 04:10
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So why does the thought experiment fail? Is our gender identity more deeply ingrained (or less flexible) than our racial identity simply because it plays a bigger role in our day-to-day lives? Or are we specially pre-programmed to form a very distinct gender identity?

The latter case seems likely, because other forms of identification are much more fluid. Take something simple, like size. When we're kids, we know that our parents are big and we're small and this simple fact plays a huge role in our day-to-day lives. As we grow, however, it's not like we have an identity crisis over our change in size. We just adapt our identity to that change. Gender, by contrast, would seem to be almost completely inflexible based on the testimony of transgender people. No matter how much they're treated as one gender, they still feel like they're the opposite one.

If this is due to nature, it's pretty remarkable. Gender identity seems like a very complex social construct that would have to be built up gradually over many years. What's more, gender roles vary from one society to the next, so the specific behaviors couldn't be preprogrammed. Maybe our brains are subconsciously correlating the behaviors of others with other gender cues, like pheromones or facial proportions, and then creating an "identity" based on that?
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bongritsu
电子人 ( cyborg)



Location: bog
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  • #5
  • Posted: 06/17/2015 02:54
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Rachel Dolezal is one of the finest white supremacists i have ever seen. I applaud her actions. Who said the mentally ill cant have great achievements?

Im loving the mental gymnastics that are going on in the left to champion or tear down this wrong skin garbally goop. comically they are going to keep entertaining these childish delusions until it all comes crashing down. Transablism acceptance is on the horizon, transagist men and women will be in preschool with your children. shit, in a couple more years identifying as innocent in a criminal trial will be a bullet proof defense.
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WindowAbove



Gender: Male
Age: 25
Location: Iowa
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  • #6
  • Posted: 06/17/2015 17:53
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bongritsu wrote:
Rachel Dolezal is one of the finest white supremacists i have ever seen. I applaud her actions. Who said the mentally ill cant have great achievements? .

I thought you were a white supremacist? Also I think she's insecure about her race and wants to fit in with the black community rather than being a white supremacist. I do agree that she may have some mental illness going on though. I'm not going to respond to the stupidity of your second paragraph.
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Satie





  • #7
  • Posted: 06/17/2015 20:05
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bongritsu wrote:
Im loving the mental gymnastics that are going on in the left to champion or tear down this wrong skin garbally goop. comically they are going to keep entertaining these childish delusions until it all comes crashing down. Transablism acceptance is on the horizon, transagist men and women will be in preschool with your children. shit, in a couple more years identifying as innocent in a criminal trial will be a bullet proof defense.


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SquishypuffDave



Gender: Male
Age: 33
Australia

  • #8
  • Posted: 06/18/2015 01:06
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permafrost wrote:


Good heavens, that is one slippery looking slope. The problem with posting pictures of slippery slopes is that it could lead to posting pictures of even steeper things like cliffs. Where do you draw the line?
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CubaZed





  • #9
  • Posted: 06/18/2015 07:10
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SquishypuffDave wrote:
Good heavens, that is one slippery looking slope. The problem with posting pictures of slippery slopes is that it could lead to posting pictures of even steeper things like cliffs. Where do you draw the line?


Somewhere around here:
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craola
crayon master



Location: pdx
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  • #10
  • Posted: 06/18/2015 20:06
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permafrost wrote:

I identify this photo as off-axis. There is no slope.
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