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pearljammer13
Young Pilgrim

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Massachusetts

ButterThumbz wrote:

What's the use of power if you don't intervene?

My belief for a while now is that some higher power (God, whatever you want to call it) provided the energy or whatever was necessary to create our existence. It plays no role whatsoever in the events that occur in the universe, but it provided the initial energy and takes us back when we die. Might not make any sense to many or most of you, but it's what I believe and it works for me.

I know atheists and many scientists believe natural processes or vaccum energy or some shit could give rise to the big bang via natural processes, but in my mind energy can't arise from nothing. Some higher power had to provide the energy.

Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums

Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible

pearljammer13 wrote:

I know atheists and many scientists believe natural processes or vaccum energy or some shit could give rise to the big bang via natural processes, but in my mind energy can't arise from nothing. Some higher power had to provide the energy.

But then where did the higher power originate?
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ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears

Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away

Jackwc wrote:

But then where did the higher power originate?

Higher powers don't need origins. They can do whatever you want them to. They're magic!

pearljammer13
Young Pilgrim

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Massachusetts

Jackwc wrote:

But then where did the higher power originate?

I knew that question was coming. To me, that question can be asked about the energy to create the big bang, or about the higher power. I guess I would just say that God/higher power is ever existing, it wasn't created, it has always existed. I understand that doesn't really make sense, but then again neither does saying the energy always existed via some natural process. It doesn't make sense that this entire world came from nothing, at some point something was created or existed. I just happen to think it's the higher power that has always existed. It just becomes a philosophical debate at one point. Either I sound stupid because I claim God always existed and created/was the original energy, or someone else does by saying the energy created itself. I don't think it can ever be fully explained or proven, not until we're dead. It simply can't make sense, so I choose to believe in the former, you obviously choose to believe the latter. To each his own. Fuck I hope that at least made the tiniest bit of sense Think

. It always formulates better in my head than when I actually type it/say it.

ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears

Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away

pearljammer13 wrote:

I knew that question was coming. To me, that question can be asked about the energy to create the big bang, or about the higher power. I guess I would just say that God/higher power is ever existing, it wasn't created, it has always existed. I understand that doesn't really make sense, but then again neither does saying the energy always existed via some natural process. It doesn't make sense that this entire world came from nothing, at some point something was created or existed. I just happen to think it's the higher power that has always existed. It just becomes a philosophical debate at one point. Either I sound stupid because I claim God always existed and created/was the original energy, or someone else does by saying the energy created itself. I don't think it can ever be fully explained or proven, not until we're dead. It simply can't make sense, so I choose to believe in the former, you obviously choose to believe the latter. To each his own. Fuck I hope that at least made the tiniest bit of sense Think

. It always formulates better in my head than when I actually type it/say it.

Just because something hasn't been figured out yet doesn't mean it's never going to make sense. The different that science makes is that it requires a falsifiable hypotheses, rather than just inventing an explanation.

pearljammer13
Young Pilgrim

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Massachusetts

ButterThumbz wrote:

Just because something hasn't been figured out yet doesn't mean it's never going to make sense. The different that science makes is that it requires a falsifiable hypotheses, rather than just inventing an explanation.

That's fine, but as far as I can tell there will never be a way to prove how the world started. If so then I guess everyone who believes in some sort of God will be wrong.

I understand when people make fun of devout Christians that don't believe in evolution, because at this point they are refusing to accept scientific fact. But I really don't think it will ever be proven one way where the original energy or force of life came from, I don't think that's possible. When it boils down to origin, both what I believe and what you believe has the exact same flaw, that somehow something came to exist from nothing. I'll happily admit I'm wrong if there is ever a scientific explanation for it.

I think it's funny that you immediately discount my belief as nonsense, when in actuality your belief produces the same exact flaw. I have no problem with what you believe, but you seem to think me or someone like me is simply stupid for what I believe.

ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears

Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away

pearljammer13 wrote:

When it boils down to origin, both what I believe and what you believe has the exact same flaw, that somehow something came to exist from nothing. I'll happily admit I'm wrong if there is ever a scientific explanation for it.

I think it's funny that you immediately discount my belief as nonsense, when in actuality your belief produces the same exact flaw. I have no problem with what you believe, but you seem to think me or someone like me is simply stupid for what I believe.

But that's the whole point. It's not a matter of pointing out your belief is nonsense, it's a matter of pointing out that it is your belief. I don't have a belief about what started the big bang and I'm quite happy with that.

I don't have a problem with what you believe. What I have a problem with is that you claim to know what scientists and atheists believe.

pearljammer13
Young Pilgrim

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Massachusetts

ButterThumbz wrote:

But that's the whole point. It's not a matter of pointing out your belief is nonsense, it's a matter of pointing out that it is your belief. I don't have a belief about what started the big bang and I'm quite happy with that.

I don't have a problem with what you believe. What I have a problem with is that you claim to know what scientists and atheists believe.

Ok sorry then, I misconstrued what you were saying. I was simply stating what I've read in multiple places when I look up what the most common belief is amongst atheists on how the world began. One thing I do know is that they don't believe in a God, and therefore some other way something came from nothing. So either way their belief holds the same inherent flaw as someone who believes in God.

It just bugs me when atheists belittle people who believe in God. The existence of God can't be proven, and it also can't be disproven, so it doesn't make sense to dismiss that belief as nonsensical. Just because something can't be proven doesn't mean it can't be believed in. And I'm not referring to you now, just speaking in general, because I've been in the room several times and an atheists reaction to someone with some sort of faith is often over the top and insulting.

thejoj96

pearljammer13 wrote:

an atheists reaction to someone with some sort of faith is often over the top and insulting.

while this applies to most atheists, you are generalizing

ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears

Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away

pearljammer13 wrote:

Ok sorry then, I misconstrued what you were saying. I was simply stating what I've read in multiple places when I look up what the most common belief is amongst atheists on how the world began. One thing I do know is that they don't believe in a God, and therefore some other way something came from nothing. So either way their belief holds the same inherent flaw as someone who believes in God.

It just bugs me when atheists belittle people who believe in God. The existence of God can't be proven, and it also can't be disproven, so it doesn't make sense to dismiss that belief as nonsensical. Just because something can't be proven doesn't mean it can't be believed in. And I'm not referring to you now, just speaking in general, because I've been in the room several times and an atheists reaction to someone with some sort of faith is often over the top and insulting.

That's cool. I have no desire to change anyone's belief. Yes, atheists can be dicks and I am more than capable of being one at times, especially on a forum. I know where you're coming from.