Gun Control

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Poll: Should the US enact stronger gun control laws?
Yes
80%
 80%  [77]
No
19%
 19%  [19]
Total Votes : 96

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Wombi





  • #1
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 12:31
  • Post subject: Gun Control
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I assume most people have heard about this now:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/co...?hpt=hp_t1

I so badly wanted it to be a hoax. It's just soul crushing to read. RIP to all those lost.

I thought there was a topic about gun control but it seems not.

The US need to fix their gun laws. Some blame should be on the US Government and the millions of the US citizens crying 'freedom' when it comes to gun control.

You might argue 'Guns don't kill people'? in what developed country outside of the US does this sh!t happen on such a frequent basis? The last mass shooting here in Australia was 16 years ago and our government enacted laws almost immediately for more stringent gun control (and barely anyone even had guns before that).

No one in the world wants America to have any more of these disgusting spectacles and for the sake of its people we hope your government starts making it harder to get hold of firearms and ammunition.
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Polythene Pam





  • #2
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 12:42
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Bloody liberals, first you want gun control, what's next, ban apple pie?

The 2nd amendment gives me the right to bear arms, and no bleeding heart communist it going to tell me that I can't protect my family!

Get a job hippie!
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19loveless91
mag. druž. inf



Slovenia

  • #3
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 13:37
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I definitely think that gun control in USA should be stronger, but I also think that it's only one of the factors that makes these kinds of things happen. After all, everybody could probably find some potential deadly weapons at home, like knives, but that doesn't mean that it will make you more likely to go out and stab somebody.

The way I see it, it's a combination of permissive parenting, capitalist (or rationalist) mentality, the violence in the world (on the news, movies, video games) and, as mentioned, the fact that pretty much everyone can get a weapon. None of these things by itself is that problematic (obviously some more than the others), but this is what happens in a society that fits under all criteria heavily:
The child is raised in belief that (s)he is super special, that everything in the world revolves around him/her, etc... But then, later in life, he finds out that it is just not true, and that he is just one of many (basically where this kind of parenting became a norm, every child is like that). So what happens next? Every failure multiplies itself, as that person was not prepared to deal with it, every time the goals aren't met (and goals are of course, always too high), the mental state takes a turn for the worse. And how does that person deal with the shortcomings? Well here's when the "capitalist mentality" comes into force. These days, for every problem there is, even if it's a mental one, a new medicine or a "pill" is invented. So if a person is, for example depressed, he just takes a bunch of antideppresants and it's cool. Rationally, it's hard to complain - for those people it might work, and for the industry that provides them, there is the profit and the feeling of success as they "helped" the ones in need. But that's fake. The person becomes unable to deal with an emotional trauma, the addiction to those pills is no different than the addiction to any other drug. He becomes emotionally numb. And to a person in such a state, the world around him, that is drowned with violence and pornography, becomes much more of a danger. A mentally healthy person can watch any amount of violent movies, perverted porn, or play any violent videogame, it won't do (well it shouldn't do) his mental state any harm. To a drugged up person, that was never in his life prepared to deal with any problems, it may become just an another way of escape from real life. And such a person is a lot more likely to go and do some of those things that he sees in the world around him. And when you have a society like in USA, where a weapon is within everybody's reach, this is the kind of thing that will inevitably happen.

I think the world is going in this exact direction and I'm afraid we will continue to see more of what happened today. The stricter laws on gun control are definitely a thing that should limit the shootings (and thus save a lot of innocent lives), but it unfortunately doesn't solve the core of the problem, which is the increasing number of people, who are morally corrupt enough to have such a thing come to their mind. Sure, without guns, their actions wouldn't be so deadly, but they wouldn't exactly be model citizens either.

So... um.. I guess that's what I think of it. Gun control laws should definitely be stricter, but the problem is also in parenting/education and this overly rationalist mentality of fixing every problem with a pill, even if the illness is a subconscious one (that's a great line by N'toko, a Slovenian rapper, it doesn't rhyme in english Neutral )

Felt like writing, sorry bout that Anxious
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junodog4
Future Grumpy Old Man


Gender: Male
Location: Calgary
Canada

  • #4
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 14:55
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Despite high profile exceptions (Dunblane, Utoya, Erfurt, Port Arthur, and Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal), people in Canada, Japan, Australia and Europe aren't shooting each other with the same frequency as Americans... I think most Americans would say that this is a bad thing. I'd agree with the thread's suggestion - gun control will help immensely. If not, what other suggestions are out there?
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gussteivi




Sweden

  • #5
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 14:57
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19loveless91 wrote:
After all, everybody could probably find some potential deadly weapons at home, like knives, but that doesn't mean that it will make you more likely to go out and stab somebody.


Yes, but it would be much more difficult for the perpetrator to execute a mass killing like this one with a kitchen knife.

And are you saying that violent video games/tv shows/movies and pornography are a part of the problem?
Do you think people would be less "morally corrupt" if they didn't exist or where less accessible?

Because if anything I think those things give people the chance to act out what they otherwise might have done in a less safe environment, so to speak.

And I believe the world has always been very violent, probably much more so than now many other times throughout history. It's just that now media covers all the violence that goes on everywhere at all time (not entirely true, of course).

I'd like to add that besides bad parenting and pills, it seems to me (based on movies, which is where my view of what it's like to be an american comes from) that the school system plays a big part in producing mentally unstable people, as evident in the many school shootings.

At an age where most people are insecure and trying to find out who they are, they are exposed to a ruthless hierarchy and segregation (again, I'm basing this on movies).
And the schools seem to be encouraging this behaviour to some extent.
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19loveless91
mag. druž. inf



Slovenia

  • #6
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 15:17
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gussteivi wrote:
Yes, but it would be much more difficult for the perpetrator to execute a mass killing like this one with a kitchen knife.

And are you saying that violent video games/tv shows/movies and pornography are a part of the problem?
Do you think people would be less "morally corrupt" if they didn't exist or where less accessible?

Because if anything I think those things give people the chance to act out what they otherwise might have done in a less safe environment, so to speak.

And I believe the world has always been very violent, probably much more so than now many other times throughout history. It's just that now media covers all the violence that goes on everywhere at all time (not entirely true, of course).

I'd like to add that besides bad parenting and pills, it seems to me (based on movies, which is where my view of what it's like to be an american comes from) that the school system plays a big part in producing mentally unstable people, as evident in the many school shootings.

At an age where most people are insecure and trying to find out who they are, they are exposed to a ruthless hierarchy and segregation (again, I'm basing this on movies).
And the schools seem to be encouraging this behaviour to some extent.

Either I wasn't very clear (quite likely) or you misunderstood me. I don't think the "violent surroundings" are what cause the problem, as I said:
Quote:
A mentally healthy person can watch any amount of violent movies, perverted porn, or play any violent videogame, it won't do (well it shouldn't do) his mental state any harm. To a drugged up person, that was never in his life prepared to deal with any problems, it may become just an another way of escape from real life.

Basically I blame the pills/parenting, that cause an individual to become numb to the point of having a completely different perception of the mentioned violence and surroundings, than what a "healthy" person should have. So while in a way I do think that games/movies/porn are a part of the reason this happens, they're by no means "the problem". And these things are so much a part of this world that it would be unable to "remove" them and make that problem go away - which is why it is important to raise/educate a child in a way that his perception of these things would be correct. And as I said, I don't think the idea of parenting that seems to be prevalent these days is right when it comes to this.

As far as being unable to stage mass murder with a kitchen knife - well I agree here of course, but as I said, the fact that the people are unable to go on a shooting spree, doesn't mean that they are more "healthy" that way. Just less of a risk to the society.
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RFNAPLES
Level 8


Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA
United States

  • #7
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 15:43
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Ban boomerangs and bear traps
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Wombi





  • #8
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 16:07
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19loveless91 wrote:

Felt like writing, sorry bout that Anxious


Don't apologise. You're the best writer on the site when you start ranting.

Although I do agree with Gussteivi on the issue of you don't really have the chance to commit as much carnage in a short space and time with a knife or blunt instrument.

Your point about parenting is 100% true and bad (negligent or overly-attentive) parenting is responsible for a massive percentage of the gravest ills in society.

The medication is a tricky one because you could make an argument for what occurs when the individual is not on their meds. Though I don't know enough to make that argument.
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19loveless91
mag. druž. inf



Slovenia

  • #9
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 16:15
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Jhereko wrote:

The medication is a tricky one because you could make an argument for what occurs when the individual is not on their meds. Though I don't know enough to make that argument.

True, and I don't either about these things. But I do feel that simply putting somebody on perscription drugs is a wrong approach to the problem, because it doesn't solve it, just puts it in a background. Similar to any other illegal drug.

One of these days I'm gonna translate that N'toko song for you guys, he really makes such an excellent point, as always
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Necharsian
Best Ever User


Gender: Male
Canada

  • #10
  • Posted: 07/20/2012 18:18
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Ya this is a terrible terrible story.

I still don't see the point in people owning guns. When is the last time a civilian stopped something like the Aurora tragedy with a gun? Guns don't protect anyone or serve any actual purpose.
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