Politics & Gender

[sp4cetiger]

[Kool Keith Sweat]

I feel there is a blurry, perhaps discreet, disconnect between gender and sex. In a lot of cases, I do feel sex and gender correspond, but there are people that reject their sex because they identify with a different gender. I've witnessed a man slowly transition from man to woman by first wearing special girdles to morph his waist, then cross-dressing, then changing his name to a more feminine one, and last I heard he was on hormonal treatment finally and gaining breasts. An outsider might say differently, but I know he truly felt he was a male (sex) that was a female (gender). Invalidating the difference between sex and gender would largely invalidate this person's existence, and many others.

If anyone's a biologist on these forums, I think it would be interesting to see some papers on whether some frogs (or other species) that change sex behave differently than the same sex upon change, e.g. a male frog shows distinct differences from female frogs upon changing to a female frog.

Frankly, unless there is a studying biologist or psychologist among us, I feel we can't fully address the subject, and we're just stating our convictions. I will admit that certain environments like tumblr breed a kind of whimsy when it comes to the topic of gender and sex, but allowing tumblr to influence your perspective of gender and sex is like allowing 4chan to influence your view of feminism.

On another note, I was viewing this post on imgur this morning (sourced from this blogpost). Aside from calling things off (in mind, after only two dates) via text, I thought the guy's response was fine; many people on the imgur thread felt the guy's response was entitled and condescending. Some imgur posters felt that calling her a girl, rather than a woman, was uncalled for, which made me remember that I've personally met several women who draw offense to gendered terms. I've called addressed women as "dude" or "hey, you guys" and been called out on it. People on skype know that I frequently use what might be gendered terms as ungendered, e.g. one of my common greetings is "hey, sluts" when pretty much everyone is male there, and I also don't think the word bitch is gendered, though it may technically be. I don't really use the word cunt, but I feel if I did I would equally use it on males as females, and have seen my english and aussie friends on here do so. Anyways, I think it would be interesting to have a discussion on gendered terms, after that verbal diarrhea of observations.

[19loveless91]

An anthropologist would be able to tell you that there are differences between two sexes in pretty much every culture and/or civilization. However, the behaviour that is "expected" from males or females is different from culture to culture, meaning that there isn't really such a thing as "feminine" or "masculine" from a purely biological point of view. There are cultures (I would need to go through my papers on this to be able to tell you the exact tribes) where what we percieve as feminine is expected of males - however males still hold all of the economical or political power.

However the fact that these differences exist everywhere, means that there is a biological predisposition (obviously) which is then shaped into the norms and gender roles that we know. But I think that modern western civilization is too far removed from everything that came before it, to use any anthropological studies for studying the connection between gender and sex in our society.

I'm not sure if what I just wrote is of any help to the discussion lol.

[SquishypuffDave]

@purple, in regards to your friend's experience, I certainly don't consider such feelings of gender identity to be invalid, but I'd perhaps describe it with different language. Why not describe it as rejecting their sex because they identified with a different sex? That they felt uncomfortable as a biological male and it felt more right to be biologically female.

If that's not what they mean when they describe themselves as a (sex) male but a (gender) woman, then I literally don't know what it could mean. Gender is a shorthand for something, but it's unclear to me what that something is in any given case. My beef is more with the imprecise use of language than anything else. There shouldn't be any need for elaboration when people use the term he or she.

That said, it's not like I'm going to be an asshole and refuse to call someone by whatever gender title they identify with.

[alelsupreme]

I've always seen gender as a strictly biological thing. That said, if anyone wants to claim they're a woman but with the body of the man, then I don't mind, their decision.
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Romanelli wrote:

We're all fucked, lads.

[HigherThanTheSun]

Men and women are treated fundamentally differently in society in so many ways that whether you personally believe in gender stereotypes or not doesn't really matter, your gender still affects your life in such a massive way whether you like it or not.

I've always been pretty comfortable being treated as a man but it's understandable considering I probably fit most of the stereotypes in our society of what it means to be a man. I find it hard to empathise with someone who struggles with issues of gender identity because I've never experienced it, though I don't think it's too hard to imagine a situation where my identity as a person ran so contrary to what society would expect from someone of my birth sex, that I felt uncomfortable identifying with the gender that matched my sex. If I had been born female for example, I think it's likely that this would be the case.

If some people are so uncomfortable with their situation that they are prepared to go through the process that purple has described and all the shit that must come with that, which I imagine is a fucking load, I don't think it's anything that can be scoffed at.

Short answer is I completely endorse what sp4cetiger has already said.
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Shut up mate you're boring!

[Guest]

[Kool Keith Sweat]

[alelsupreme]

[alelsupreme]

edit: lol
_________________

Romanelli wrote:

We're all fucked, lads.