The Ubiquitous Overrated/Underrated Statement

[maxperenchio]

It's such a painful topic; I personally would rather scrape my dick off than listen to another "who is overrated/underrated" discussion (not really). But I'm fascinated to hear your opinions on WHY/HOW an album becomes overrated or underrated.

For me, an album's Rated-ness comes solely from the professional critical realm. I mean could you ever argue that a band like Nickelback is OVERrated? Sure they sell an ocean of records, have millions of loyal fans, but critically they are more or less considered the worst band in the world. Can constant radio play and junk-media saturation allow a band to be "overrated"?

Same thing with underrating- could anyone say an album like Slint's Spiderland is underrated, when its one of the most critically drooled over albums, simply because most people have never heard of it? How do you factor in mainstream adoration with how an album is "rated"?

[joannajewsom]

First of all, I almost spit out my fruit punch when you talked about scraping your dick off.

With overrating and underrating, you're right, rated-ness comes from the critical realm (including non-professional "critics" like you and me). We can actually gauge the critical perception of a work's quality through reviews, scores, best of lists, etc. With sales, it's completely different. If a band sells 5 million records, we can't assume 5 million people all love the album. That's highly unlikely. We don't know how they rate it. 1 million may love it, 1 million may think it's just okay, 2 million may think it's overrated and below average, and 1 million may hate it and wish they never bought it. How would we ever know? I would just call that overhyped rather than overrated, if anything. People aren't "rating" it when they buy it. You can't rate something you probably haven't heard yet. It's mostly teenagers buying pop records (ones that would reach in the millions in sales), and those records are sold based on marketing and accessibility. For me, accessibility is not an artistic virtue. Some people see it as a virtue-- I don't see any good reason why they would, but they do.

As far as how certain albums get overrated by critics...a little bit of the Emperor's New Clothes. A 9.4 from Pitchfork and you're an indie superstar. Hell, anything over an 8 and you're good as gold. As far as the classics, once an album has made it into the rock "canon," it's smooth-sailing from there. People grow up "knowing" the Beatles are the greatest. Everybody says it. So most listeners are going to approach with them with an Emperor's New Clothes attitude. Not saying the Beatles are "naked." I like them. But those clothes, in my opinion, ain't as fancy as they get hyped up to be.

I don't think something like Slint is underrated because it isn't mainstream. It has high artistic value but not much mainstream appeal. It's not accessible.; it was never really supposed to sell millions. Now if that record didn't get the critical acclaim it has, then I'd say it was underrated (assuming I would have heard of it if it didn't have the critical acclaim it deserved).

[maxxy]

[RFNAPLES]

It is your opinion of an album compared with your perception of what others think of that album which causes it to be overrated or underrated in your mind.
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[telefunker]

if a record doesn't grab my attention and resonate with me in some way, it's never gonna be a favourite of mine.. however, as a semi-enlightened individual and musician myself, i can appreciate the musical quality inherent in something i may not necessarily adore

examples of highly-acclaimed records i do not love, but recognize as being worthy of their praise:

jimi hendrix - are you experienced?
lou reed - transformer
ladyhawke - ladyhawke
coldplay - a rush of blood to the head


examples of highly-acclaimed records i feel are overrated and have become little more than fashion statements:

radiohead - in rainbows
captain beefheart - trout mask replica
bob dylan - desire
hole - live through this
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[telefunker]

sorry, i just realised i forgot to include who i consider to be the most foremost example of how hype and fashion can inflate the public perception of musical quality:

the libertines

now, i'm not into the whole pete doherty thing, but if there were some tunes, some soaring melodies, timeless songs in all of it then i would acknowledge them as having some worth.. but they're just a pure fashion band and it does irritate me seeing them in any 'best of' lists

even the spice girls managed 1 iconic track (albeit for 8-year-old girls), but this guy just ruffles his hair and shoots some heroin.. and it passes off as great?
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no fat chicks

[joannajewsom]

Interestingly enough, telefunker, I've noticed that the very polarizing Trout Mask Replica has received so much acclaim that there isn't anything "cool" about it anymore. It isn't OK Computer popular, but it's typical experimental rock canon by now, so that inner-circle of kids in the know isn't exclusive anymore. And the people who hate it vastly outnumber the people who love it, and their hate just keeps growing stronger when its acclaim keeps getting stronger. So for every 2 people who may "overrate" it, there's 10 more people waiting to "underrate" it and knock it back down, making a reactionary statement as dishonest as using TMR as some "fashion statement." Trout Mask Replica will more than likely get you bashed and accused of being a poser at this point, than it will get you applauded. TMR backlash is definitely more noticeable over at RYM, where it doesn't even crack the top 2000.

[maxxy]

What's RYM? Rate Your Music? And what if you really do enjoy TMR? mmm....
Actually Naples is right this time.

Oh and I don't think Coldplay deserves all that much praise. Enjoyable? Yes. Fantastic? No.
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[joannajewsom]

Yeah, Rate Your Music. I'm not saying there are people who don't really enjoy it. I really enjoy it. I was saying that at this point I see no incentive to pretend to enjoy it.

Naples just pointed out something devastatingly obvious. We all know what "overrated" or "underrated" means, and that it is relative to one's own opinion on the album. That's beside the point. The point of the thread is to figure out how a band like Coldplay, your example, could gain so much undeserved praise. What forces outside of the music are at work?

[telefunker]

i don't really like coldplay or a rush of blood to the head.. but i do think the songs on the album are consistently strong melodically and well constructed/arranged.. so i wouldn't begrudge anyone lauding over it.. personally i find it all a bit wishy-washy and insipid
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no fat chicks