Religion & Homosexuality

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Poll: Psst, hey you, you gay?
Darn tootin' I'm gay.
14%
 14%  [7]
I go both ways.
18%
 18%  [9]
I'm straight as an arrow, I'll have you know!
43%
 43%  [21]
I'm Bork. Of course I'm straight.
20%
 20%  [10]
Questioning...
2%
 2%  [1]
Total Votes : 48

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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh


Gender: Male
Location: Washington
United States

  • #81
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:16
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Magikarp wrote:
It's in the Declaration of Human Rights #16 I think


Aw I see. Thanks.
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ptaylor1989




Age: 34
United States

  • #82
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:23
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Jasonconfused wrote:
I'm happy for the LBGTQ, but serious question, can someone explain to me how marriage is a human right? Constitutional right? Probably. But human right? Maybe I just don't really understand the definition of a human right.

If you don't see how it should be your natural born right to marry which ever consenting adult you see fit, I can't add anything to the Human Right definition that might sway you. Personally, I don't want to get married but if that changes and I do marry a woman, that woman gets all sorts of federally recognized rights. If I decided to marry a man, and I spend every morning with that man or called him to express my love, spent all my hopes and dreams on that man, rocked in chairs watching the sun set behind hills with that man, amassed a relationship closer than any other relationship I had ever experienced with that man, and then suddenly I get sick and the hospital won't let my man see me because that bigoted state doesn't recognize our bond, the government would be constitutionally preventing me from my pursuit of happiness.

Not only would my love not be able to enter the room to hold my hand as my body uses it's last defenses to fight off some terminal illness. After I die, all of our financial accomplishments are taxed heavier than a government-recognized couple. The government charges me more taxes because of my sexual orientation. Should any american pay more taxes because of their gender, race, or sexual orientation? No the government shouldn't and making a gay couple jump through financial and other legal hoops is wholly unfair. I have a human right to generously love (or not love) whomever I want and express that love in a publicly-bonding, marriage, type of way. I'd deserve those rights because other humans have a negative right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_a...ive_rights to not be prevented from marrying. It's retarded to prevent other humans the same right other humans exercise without any effort to earn.
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Last edited by ptaylor1989 on 06/26/2013 18:51; edited 3 times in total
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  • #83
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:26
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Jasonconfused wrote:
I'm happy for the LBGTQ, but serious question, can someone explain to me how marriage is a human right? Constitutional right? Probably. But human right? Maybe I just don't really understand the definition of a human right.

Because it was the first thing that caused the homo sapiens to seek stability and therefore societies came to existence?
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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh


Gender: Male
Location: Washington
United States

  • #84
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:27
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ptaylor1989 wrote:
If you don't see how it should be your natural born right to marry which ever consenting adult you see fit, I can't add anything to the Human Right definition that might sway you. Personally, I don't want to get married but if that changes and I do marry a woman, that woman gets all sorts of federally recognized rights. If I decided to marry a man, and I spend every morning with that man or called him to express my love, spent all my hopes and dreams on that man, rocked in chairs watching the sun set behind hills with that man, amassed a relationship closer than any other relationship I had ever experienced with that man, and then suddenly I get sick and the hospital won't let my man see me because that bigoted state doesn't recognize our bond, the government would be constitutionally preventing me from my pursuit of happiness.

Not only would my love not be able to enter the room to hold my hand as my body uses it's last defenses to fight off some terminal illness, after I die, all of our financial accomplishments are taxed heavier than a government-recognized couple. The government charges me more taxes because of my sexual orientation. Should any american pay more taxes because of their gender, race, or sexual orientation? No the government shouldn't and making a gay couple jump through financial and other legal hoops wholly unfair. I have a human right to love generously whomever I want.


Makes sense. I agree with all of that. I think my confusion came from the fact that marriage isn't natural. It's a social construct. When I think of human rights I think of natural rights, which I guess must be different. I imagine human rights being able to eat and sleep and move about freely and stuff like that.
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ptaylor1989




Age: 34
United States

  • #85
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:33
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Jasonconfused wrote:
Makes sense. I agree with all of that. I think my confusion came from the fact that marriage isn't natural. It's a social construct. When I think of human rights I think of natural rights, which I guess must be different. I imagine human rights being able to eat and sleep and move about freely and stuff like that.

marriage has political and religious connotations but if you look to the animal kingdom for a bit of clarity, there are plenty of animals that stay faithful to each other over the course of their lives. As an intelligent consenting adult, i should be able to choose to do the same if that's what i desire. All I'd want as a gay man is a level playing field in terms of recognition and financial rights. I might hate to die without my love by my side. The government shouldn't have the right to keep a fellow like me from a love like that
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason


Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
United States

  • #86
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:51
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Jasonconfused wrote:
Makes sense. I agree with all of that. I think my confusion came from the fact that marriage isn't natural. It's a social construct. When I think of human rights I think of natural rights, which I guess must be different. I imagine human rights being able to eat and sleep and move about freely and stuff like that.


I think I kind of understand what you're saying. Relationships are a natural right, but marriage is a social construct. As in marriage leads to certain advantages within society, but without society there's no actual need for marriage.

It's definitely a blurry line between natural rights and constitutional rights. I think once you live in a society, natural rights no longer exist unless defined within the constitution. It's why the concept of a free society is so ridiculous. A society will always restrict certain freedoms. Not always necessarily a bad thing.

Between Obama's speech on Climate, the filibuster against the abortion bill, and the destruction of DOMA, things may finally be looking up for us Americans.
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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh


Gender: Male
Location: Washington
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  • #87
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 18:55
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meccalecca wrote:
It's definitely a blurry line between natural rights and constitutional rights. I think once you live in a society, natural rights no longer exist unless defined within the constitution. It's why the concept of a free society is so ridiculous. A society will always restrict certain freedoms. Not always necessarily a bad thing.


This makes sense. I definitely agree that being with whoever you love is a human right. I was just differentiating between monogamy and marriage. But I guess marriage is required as a human right once you start making laws like where you have to be married in order to be with your loved ones in the hospital and stuff like that.
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meccalecca
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  • #88
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 19:01
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Jasonconfused wrote:
This makes sense. I definitely agree that being with whoever you love is a human right. I was just differentiating between monogamy and marriage. But I guess marriage is required as a human right once you start making laws like where you have to be married in order to be with your loved ones in the hospital and stuff like that.


Exactly. I think if marriage was just a symbolic act like for certain religions this wouldn't be as big of a deal, but there's so many issues in regards to finances and personal matters that this is very serious indeed.

The fact that the religious right act like they're under attack is some serious bullshit
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ptaylor1989




Age: 34
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  • #89
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 19:09
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meccalecca wrote:
Exactly. I think if marriage was just a symbolic act like for certain religions this wouldn't be as big of a deal, but there's so many issues in regards to finances and personal matters that this is very serious indeed.

The fact that the religious right act like they're under attack is some serious bullshit

I'm not a lawyer but I stumbled hard over arguing that marriage is a human right. TBH my posted arguments haven't even convinced myself but I agree when the last few posts. It's just strange how two adults have the right to get married and another two don't.
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meccalecca
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  • #90
  • Posted: 06/26/2013 19:46
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ptaylor1989 wrote:
I'm not a lawyer but I stumbled hard over arguing that marriage is a human right. TBH my posted arguments haven't even convinced myself but I agree when the last few posts. It's just strange how two adults have the right to get married and another two don't.


I agree. It is strange. It's even stranger that there's people who passionately care about keeping those two people from not having that right. It's a society defined by greed.
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