Too dumb for Democracy?

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic

Poll: Are we too dumb for Democracy?
Hell no!
4%
 4%  [1]
You're darn tootin'!
17%
 17%  [4]
You kiss your momma with that mouth?
17%
 17%  [4]
Yeah, sure, whatever!
17%
 17%  [4]
Say what?
8%
 8%  [2]
Ain't this a republic?
4%
 4%  [1]
Get off my lawn!
30%
 30%  [7]
Total Votes : 23

Author Message
Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums



Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
Canada

  • #11
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 04:30
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Well, according to the dialectical political system outlined in Plato's Republic, once a democracy arises decadence will inevitably take hold (as when people have full right to their own destinies they will always put pleasure first) and too much decadence will lead to ignorance. Once ignorance takes hold, the ignorant masses will elect a demagogue who will take their democracy away from them. Eventually everything resets.

'Tis the way.
_________________
A dick that's bigger than the sun.

Music sucks. Check out my favourite movies, fam:
http://letterboxd.com/jackiegigantic/
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears


Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away
United Kingdom

  • #12
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 08:50
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
HigherThanTheSun wrote:
He's promised a referendum should the Cons win a majority in 2015 so people know what they're voting for if they vote Cons.


Yeah, as I explained, they'd be voting for a party that either had no opinion on the subject or where just using the promise of a referendum because they can't afford to offer us all a free carriage clock.


HigherThanTheSun wrote:
I don't really mind referendums though and I think people who opposed them are normally just scared of the outcome as I imagine is the case here.


Applying this logic to what you have to say next, you should be scared of the outcome.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
Yeah most of the population are far too ignorant of the subject to make an informed decision but I'd rather the public decide than be patronisingly told that the issue is too complex for them, I mean if the public aren't to be trusted here then why trust them to elect politicians in the first place?


So, you prefer the idea of a party that won't lay their cards on the table but instead would potentially go against their own better judgement rather than risk offending a bunch of people who are too dumb to realised how uninformed they are?

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
Also, if a referendum actually started to look like a possibility (which it isn't atm) then I think people would start to think a lot harder about the issue and I would hope that anyone who actually voted in a referendum would know at least a bit about what they were voting for.


It would be nice to believe that but, rather than go out and inform themselves, people are going to make a decision based on their ignorance. It's most likely to be based on some knee jerk idea like all the Polish people "took our jurbs!".

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
The EU is going to change quite a bit over the next few years and I actually trust Cameron more than I would Miliband or Clegg to get the best deal for the UK.


As much as I hate to admit it, I'm inclined to agree but only on the basis that Miliband and Clegg appear to be a couple of flaccid numpties. However, if that's the case, why would he asking "us" to decide?


Last edited by ButterThumbz on 02/05/2013 09:05; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears


Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away
United Kingdom

  • #13
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 09:01
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Jackwc wrote:
Well, according to the dialectical political system outlined in Plato's Republic, once a democracy arises decadence will inevitably take hold (as when people have full right to their own destinies they will always put pleasure first) and too much decadence will lead to ignorance. Once ignorance takes hold, the ignorant masses will elect a demagogue who will take their democracy away from them. Eventually everything resets.

'Tis the way.


That's why, over time, ancient Athens slowly moved from a democracy to a republic, the exact opposite of what America has done.


Link
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
HigherThanTheSun



Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: UK
United Kingdom

  • #14
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 14:33
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
ButterThumbz wrote:
Yeah, as I explained, they'd be voting for a party that either had no opinion on the subject or where just using the promise of a referendum because they can't afford to offer us all a free carriage clock.


They could as easily promise to leave the EU and it would be as attractive to the same voters they're courting with the promise of a referendum.

ButterThumbz wrote:
So, you prefer the idea of a party that won't lay their cards on the table but instead would potentially go against their own better judgement rather than risk offending a bunch of people who are too dumb to realised how uninformed they are?


You know that parties get elected on the strength of many policies, not just one. I would feel cheated a little bit if the UK made a decision on the matter without a referendum, are you saying you'd be happy if we were to leave the EU without a referendum?

ButterThumbz wrote:
It would be nice to believe that but, rather than go out and inform themselves, people are going to make a decision based on their ignorance. It's most likely to be based on some knee jerk idea like all the Polish people "took our jurbs!".


Well maybe, but how do you think people decide who to vote for at each general election? They're no more or less informed then than they would be for this referendum. To argue that people are too dumb for a referendum surely means you feel they're too dumb to vote on anything?

Anyway, I don't think we'd vote to leave the EU anyway. I'm confident that if a referendum was going to happen, our membership of the EU would be scrutinised a lot more carefully by a lot more voters and we'd end up staying.
_________________
Shut up mate you're boring!
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears


Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away
United Kingdom

  • #15
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 16:30
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
HigherThanTheSun wrote:
They could as easily promise to leave the EU and it would be as attractive to the same voters they're courting with the promise of a referendum.


That's kind of my point, except doing that is going to guarantee anyone wishing to stay in (and I'm hoping that's most of us) certainly wont be voting for them, therefore they lose.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
You know that parties get elected on the strength of many policies, not just one. I would feel cheated a little bit if the UK made a decision on the matter without a referendum, are you saying you'd be happy if we were to leave the EU without a referendum?


I'm saying those parties should have a policy regarding the EU then that can be factored into our decision when choosing a party to vote for.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
Well maybe, but how do you think people decide who to vote for at each general election? They're no more or less informed then than they would be for this referendum. To argue that people are too dumb for a referendum surely means you feel they're too dumb to vote on anything?


And that's exactly the question I posed at the beginning of this thread. People need to be educated sufficiently for a democracy to work more effectively.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
Anyway, I don't think we'd vote to leave the EU anyway. I'm confident that if a referendum was going to happen, our membership of the EU would be scrutinised a lot more carefully by a lot more voters and we'd end up staying.


I hope that's the case but the point I was trying to make was that, with this promise of a referendum, the cons are trying to have their cake and eat it by attempting to win the votes of those who may want out of Europe (i.e. UKIP voters) on the premiss that most of us would vote to stay in.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
HigherThanTheSun



Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: UK
United Kingdom

  • #16
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 22:46
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Well I don't think every decision should be put to a referendum obviously, politicians are elected to govern on our behalf and they shouldn't shirk responsibility by always consulting the public (although a lot of policy is based almost purely on opinion polls so they sort of are anyway). Every now and then I feel that an issue is big enough to warrant a referendum though and this is probably one of those times. The EU is going to change a fair bit over the next few years and I don't think any party should subscribe the UK to a more federal Europe without seeking the consent of the public, which you're not really doing simply by winning an election with a policy on the EU.

And yeah, I mean the fact that my sisters are allowed to vote scares me, and yes they should make themselves better informed on politics before they vote but they're simply not interested and I don't see how you can educate people who don't want to be educated, force them to watch Question Time? This is one reason why I actually don't care about low voter turnout and I dislike the Australian way of forcing everyone to vote. If you're so apathetic or ill informed about politics that you don't even want to vote then I see it as a good thing that you're not voting.
_________________
Shut up mate you're boring!
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears


Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away
United Kingdom

  • #17
  • Posted: 02/05/2013 23:17
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
HigherThanTheSun wrote:
And yeah, I mean the fact that my sisters are allowed to vote scares me, and yes they should make themselves better informed on politics before they vote but they're simply not interested and I don't see how you can educate people who don't want to be educated, force them to watch Question Time?


Well, that wasn't really the kind education I meant. I was referring to a fundamental change in way people are educated.


Link


HigherThanTheSun wrote:
This is one reason why I actually don't care about low voter turnout and I dislike the Australian way of forcing everyone to vote.


I couldn't agree more. This is a ridiculous idea that seems almost medieval to me. Surely it's a violation of civic rights. Even someone being arrested has the right not to say anything.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
them




Location: Virginia
United States

  • #18
  • Posted: 08/09/2013 02:53
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
As far as where I exist on this planet

America is a Constitutional Republic . . . NOT a Democracy


I voted for Get off my lawn!
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears


Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away
United Kingdom

  • #19
  • Posted: 08/09/2013 10:20
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
them wrote:
As far as where I exist on this planet

America is a Constitutional Republic . . . NOT a Democracy


You keep telling yourself that. Truth is, it's an Oligarchy and it has been for a very long time.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
them




Location: Virginia
United States

  • #20
  • Posted: 08/09/2013 15:32
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
ButterThumbz wrote:
You keep telling yourself that. Truth is, it's an Oligarchy and it has been for a very long time.


I agree, as is every nation on Earth for that matter. That is a discussion I would love to have though not at this time. I meant technically speaking the U.S.A. was founded as a constitutional republic and not a democracy.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4


 

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum
A Dumb BEA Question benpaco Lounge
Dumb question #1 Repo Suggestions
Dumb Things You've Said About Music Applerill Music
Thoughts on dumb facebook posts? benpaco Politics & Religion

 
Back to Top