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meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

meccalecca wrote:

Oh, and if the white kid called gypsy actually comes from a lineage of persecuted gypsies then the complaint reasonable. Otherwise he can go cry me a river.

That sounded bad. It's still bullying, which should be taken more seriously than it is, but it's just not the same as racism. There's a documentary called Bully that came out a few years back. It's one of the most troubling things you could ever watch. I still regret some of my actions as a kid. I wasn't a bully, but I think most boys tend to prey upon the weak.
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SuedeSwede
Ognoo

Gender: Female
Age: 26
Location: On a cloud

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

But, really, have you ever actually been seriously offended by someone being racist to you? Assuming white kids are the majority at your school, there's a big difference between someone saying something racist to you compared to saying something racist to someone who isn't part of the majority. If someone calls you a cracker when you're surrounded by white people it's not very offensive, really. On top of that, besides the difference in impact, I would find it very hard to believe that racism against white people is anywhere near as prevalent as against ethnic minorities in the UK, in fact I'd be happy to say that's just incorrect.

No, I haven't, and I stated it wasn't as prevalent. I get all this. My point was, if someone were to get offended in the UK by it, they'd most likely get laughed off and told to big up or whatever, for example pasty white kids getting racial abuse from black gangs (I've seen this be laughed off before). The last bit was worded horribly but I really meant that the expectation is the white kid's not gonna be offended, when really, he could be. It all depends on the person.

meccalecca wrote:

That sounded bad. It's still bullying, which should be taken more seriously than it is, but it's just not the same as racism. There's a documentary called Bully that came out a few years back. It's one of the most troubling things you could ever watch. I still regret some of my actions as a kid. I wasn't a bully, but I think most boys tend to prey upon the weak.

He's not a gypsy at all, but I think the reason the joke was spawned is because he's part Irish and is, let's say, rather rugged. It's almost like calling an Indian "paki" - actually it's a lot like this.
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HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

SuedeSwede wrote:

No, I haven't, and I stated it wasn't as prevalent. I get all this. My point was, if someone were to get offended in the UK by it, they'd most likely get laughed off and told to big up or whatever, for example pasty white kids getting racial abuse from black gangs (I've seen this be laughed off before). The last bit was worded horribly but I really meant that the expectation is the white kid's not gonna be offended, when really, he could be. It all depends on the person.

Yes, whether someone is offended by something or not depends entirely on context; I wouldn't argue that it's impossible for a white victim of racism to be equally offended as an ethnic minority (EM) victim in a particular circumstance, just that honestly in the UK it's unlikely. If a white kid gets racial abuse from a gang of black kids then yes, that would be an instance where it could potentially be as bad, but I don't think this happens very often. Not like the racism an EM person experiences quite often.

If the joke has come about because he's 'rugged' then it's not really to do with race and really is nothing like calling a south asian a paki, in any way.
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Last edited by HigherThanTheSun on 06/04/2014 14:05; edited 1 time in total

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

SuedeSwede wrote:

He's not a gypsy at all, but I think the reason the joke was spawned is because he's part Irish and is, let's say, rather rugged. It's almost like calling an Indian "paki" - actually it's a lot like this.

It's just not the same as the racism I see in America. It's really pretty standard classroom bullying. Like telling a kid his mom's so fat that when she walks their seismograph goes off the charts. It's mean but not the same.

Basically this case is based on one individual that the kids don't like, rather than an entire group of people.
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SuedeSwede
Ognoo

Gender: Female
Age: 26
Location: On a cloud

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

Yes, whether someone is offended by something or not depends entirely on context; I wouldn't argue that it's impossible for a white victim of racism to be equally offended as an ethnic minority (EM) victim in a particular circumstance, just that honestly in the UK it's unlikely. If a white kid gets racial abuse from a gang of black kids then yes, that would be an instance where it could potentially be as bad, but I don't think this happens very often. Not like the racism an EM person experiences quite often.

If the joke has come about because he's 'rugged' then it's not really to do with race and really is nothing like calling a south asian a paki, in any way.

That's why I'd say it's not terribly awful - it's still considerably more racist than the "ying ying ying ying" situation, getting back to my original point. And yeah EM racism is awful, and a whole lot more prevalent in the UK, but I think people forget that it still applies to the other party, hence it not being a double-sided sword (if we're going to carry on that analogy, I understand that one side of the sword is still considerably sharper).

meccalecca wrote:

Basically this case is based on one individual that the kids don't like, rather than an entire group of people.

Read above.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

SuedeSwede wrote:

Read above.

Yeah I can't really speak about UK racism anyway. I'm not familiar enough with the racial dynamics there like how much laws still focus on blacks or the tensions with the Irish.

In the U.S., the racism certainly goes both ways. Hate is not selective when it comes to race. I'm sure I was mugged because I was white. And I'm sure other white friends of mine have been similarly victimized due to race. And that shit really sucks and doesn't ease tension. But then when you're in America and head down to the deep south, you see just how horribly racist many whites still are (and this isn't just a southern thing). Southerners still wave the confederate flag proudly, while most of us see it as a symbol of pro-slavery.

It still irritates me that slavery money still lines the pockets of rich southerners, being passed down for generations. I'm sure the Royal Family is similar. Dirty fucking money flowing forever in time.
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HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

Yeah, I mean I didn't want to comment on the ying ying thing since I couldn't know exactly what happened there, but obviously I'd agree that if he was just innocently singing then there's no need for anything to happen.

And yeah, I think all racism is appalling, but it is different when directed at different racial groups depending on context, which normally makes it much more powerful when directed against EM groups.
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SquishypuffDave

Gender: Male
Age: 33

SuedeSwede wrote:

I think people forget that it still applies to the other party, hence it not being a double-sided sword (if we're going to carry on that analogy, I understand that one side of the sword is still considerably sharper).

You know what is a double-edged sword? A single edged sword. On the one side it's really sharp and can slice things, but then on the other side it's blunt and doesn't slice things very well.

SuedeSwede
Ognoo

Gender: Female
Age: 26
Location: On a cloud

SquishypuffDave wrote:

You know what is a double-edged sword? A single edged sword. On the one side it's really sharp and can slice things, but then on the other side it's blunt and doesn't slice things very well.

I don't know if you're just making a joke or actually trying to expand on the conversation, but hey, you could just read what I actually put about context.
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums

Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible

I just want to say that I think bullying is an important part of a child's development and that this growing emphasis on completely eradicating bullying is counter-intuitive. Also racism is real and socks.

Also lol @ Dave's comment.
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