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Poll: Excuse me, but do you take kindly to my type around here?
We don't take kindly to your type around here
14%
 14%  [4]
Around here we don't kindly take to your type
7%
 7%  [2]
Your type doesn't take around that we kindly don't
25%
 25%  [7]
Don't kindly type your take here around us
22%
 22%  [6]
We don't type kindly to your kind around here
29%
 29%  [8]
Total Votes : 27

Author Message
meccalecca
Voice of Reason


Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
United States

  • #71
  • Posted: 06/04/2014 18:01
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Jackwc wrote:
I just want to say that I think bullying is an important part of a child's development and that this growing emphasis on completely eradicating bullying is counter-intuitive.


Agreed to an extent. Growing thick skin is really important, but there's plenty of extreme cases that will benefit absolutely no one. Case in point, essentially every school massacre where the kid never overcame the effects of that bullying.

Being called fat every single day of your life may lead you to a healthy lifestyle, but it's just as likely to either lead you to giving up or leading to a very serious eating disorder.

socks
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HigherThanTheSun



Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: UK
United Kingdom

  • #72
  • Posted: 06/05/2014 00:26
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Jackwc wrote:
I just want to say that I think bullying is an important part of a child's development and that this growing emphasis on completely eradicating bullying is counter-intuitive.


Think

I think bullying is in most cases far more damaging than it is helpful to a child's development. There's learning to cope with the often brutal social situation at school but bullying targeted at particular kids is something else, I don't see how that could possibly help someone.
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benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?



Age: 27
Location: California
United States

  • #73
  • Posted: 06/05/2014 00:46
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Jackwc wrote:
I just want to say that I think bullying is an important part of a child's development and that this growing emphasis on completely eradicating bullying is counter-intuitive. Also racism is real and socks.


I agree with this and I don't at the same time. It really, really depends on the bullying you're talking about. Bullying specific racial/ethnic groups is a no-no. Really wailing on a kid physically is also a no. But I think the definition of "bullying" has become so damn uptight we're coddling kids.

Example: My friend said, in a speech and debate class, while debating an African American student, that African-Americans have much higher incarceration rates in America, and that this is the fault of long lived fears that should not still be around. The person he was debating agreed. The teacher, afraid that the comment might lead to the black student feeling "inadequate" or "harmed", reported my friend to the administration. Although she said she had no problem with it, admin ignored her, and issued 5 detentions for "bullying based on race" to my friend.

Another example: Another friend, a super nerdy friend of mine who keeps journals of his ideas on quantum physics and talks to me about them cuz no one else will listen, huge Whovian, etc, joined swim team. He really likes it, and was well received. He befriended the coaches, all of whom are teachers at the school. The time in the pool had bleached his hair from brown to a bright yellow. Upon passing him for the first time in about a month, I said "Hey R, you went super saiyan!" He looked at me confused, and I said "Really? Dragon Ball Z? I thought you were nerdy enough to get that reference." A passing teacher stopped us both and started yelling at me for "picking on" and "bullying" R due to his intellect. He was ready to write me up before the student stopped him, clarifying that we were good friends and I was in fact mostly mocking myself for being even nerdier than him.

So I guess what I'm saying is real bullying is still bad, but what people now consider bullying is just over protection. The great irony is that admin, at least around here, seems to ignore the really bad bullying. The anti-Semitic comments directed at me in the halls, the students making fun of my "moobs" (I weigh 142 and am 6'0'', not even exactly overweight, but dieting thanks to them), the student who consistently choked my brother throughout his 6th grade year, the kids who started a racist scene after they thought 2 of our only black students and another kid who they thought was black (actually Persian) were cutting them in line, they let all of that slide. I know they've seen all of that, too. I know they were there, and they just let it slide. I don't even understand where the line is drawn.

That last paragraph serves as a test, if one of those felt out of place, good. Being teased for having moobs is nothing compared to the rest of that (especially my brother ...) and IMO is nothing to worry about. That said I am really dieting for a combination of reasons including that.

TL;DR Bullying is bad but we've broadened the word "bullying" to such a huge extent that we're being way too overprotective. Read the examples to get what I mean here
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums



Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
Canada

  • #74
  • Posted: 06/06/2014 03:11
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meccalecca wrote:
Agreed to an extent. Growing thick skin is really important, but there's plenty of extreme cases that will benefit absolutely no one. Case in point, essentially every school massacre where the kid never overcame the effects of that bullying.

Being called fat every single day of your life may lead you to a healthy lifestyle, but it's just as likely to either lead you to giving up or leading to a very serious eating disorder.

socks

HigherThanTheSun wrote:
Think

I think bullying is in most cases far more damaging than it is helpful to a child's development. There's learning to cope with the often brutal social situation at school but bullying targeted at particular kids is something else, I don't see how that could possibly help someone.


My views on bullying get a little extreme to the point of being pretty Randian, but as a kid who was bullied pretty extensively during freshman year of high school I still think bullying does more good than harm. I mean, I was a pretty fucking weird kid, does this mean I should have been punished for it? No, but it taught me a lot about how society works, what my place is in it, when to tone it down, what is and isn't acceptable behaviour (whether or not it's right). Tbph bullying conditioned me in a number of ways which I think were positive. Using the master's tools to dissemble the master's house. I don't blame bullying for kids who shoot up schools (anyone inclined to commit mass homicide is a whackjob sociopath anyhow) and (this is going to be really harsh, but) I don't think much of kids who killed themselves as a result of being bullied.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason


Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
United States

  • #75
  • Posted: 06/06/2014 12:04
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Jackwc wrote:
My views on bullying get a little extreme to the point of being pretty Randian, but as a kid who was bullied pretty extensively during freshman year of high school I still think bullying does more good than harm. I mean, I was a pretty fucking weird kid, does this mean I should have been punished for it? No, but it taught me a lot about how society works, what my place is in it, when to tone it down, what is and isn't acceptable behaviour (whether or not it's right). Tbph bullying conditioned me in a number of ways which I think were positive. Using the master's tools to dissemble the master's house. I don't blame bullying for kids who shoot up schools (anyone inclined to commit mass homicide is a whackjob sociopath anyhow) and (this is going to be really harsh, but) I don't think much of kids who killed themselves as a result of being bullied.


But did you have any sort of support system? Like a few friends or good parents that helped stabilize you? I imagine you had something that kept you from giving up. That can be a huge difference. If your home life is pure shit and then you go to school and it's the same, well you're fucked. There's no escape.
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sp4cetiger





  • #76
  • Posted: 06/06/2014 16:36
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Jackwc wrote:
My views on bullying get a little extreme to the point of being pretty Randian, but as a kid who was bullied pretty extensively during freshman year of high school I still think bullying does more good than harm. I mean, I was a pretty fucking weird kid, does this mean I should have been punished for it? No, but it taught me a lot about how society works, what my place is in it, when to tone it down, what is and isn't acceptable behaviour (whether or not it's right).


Two things I learned from this post:

1) Jack actually sees himself as a success story.
2) You have to literally beat Jack over the head to get him to change his behavior.

Wait... I already knew those things.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason


Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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  • #77
  • Posted: 06/06/2014 16:39
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sp4cetiger wrote:
Two things I learned from this post:

1) Jack actually sees himself as a success story.
2) You have to literally beat Jack over the head to get him to change his behavior.

Wait... I already knew those things.


We should probably start bullying Jack as much as possible. He can't complain because he'll have to agree it's for his benefit.
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Puncture Repair





  • #78
  • Posted: 06/06/2014 17:05
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meccalecca wrote:
But did you have any sort of support system? Like a few friends or good parents that helped stabilize you? I imagine you had something that kept you from giving up. That can be a huge difference. If your home life is pure shit and then you go to school and it's the same, well you're fucked. There's no escape.


This is key, it's easy to tell kids to suck it up and better themselves, but we have no idea what life is like at home. I have a friend who got bullied badly enough at border school that he had to move away. He lives with a single Mum who never gave him any attention as a child, so he became an very irritating attention seeker in class, which is what lead to his bullying. Having his face smashed against a wall didn't make him a better person, it made him more clingy and more seeking of approval than ever, because now he struggles to socialize properly. He's the only one of my friends who has been bullied, and he's easily the one that stands out as being the most immature and anti-social. I think it's wrong to project yourself and your own history on all other children.

Jackwc wrote:
I don't think much of kids who killed themselves as a result of being bullied.


I don't know if this is what you intended, but it sounds like you're advocating natural selection among children.
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums



Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
Canada

  • #79
  • Posted: 06/06/2014 17:27
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meccalecca wrote:
But did you have any sort of support system? Like a few friends or good parents that helped stabilize you? I imagine you had something that kept you from giving up. That can be a huge difference. If your home life is pure shit and then you go to school and it's the same, well you're fucked. There's no escape.


No, this is true - and despite all I said, the "system" in place is far from ideal, and possibly getting worse. This gets, for me, to be a bit of an uncomfortable discussion because bullying isn't something I condone ethically (unless you count being a generally acidic prick on the internet) but perhaps see some silver lining to it - but Puncture's right, and projecting my own experiences doesn't necessarily make a whole bunch of sense.
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junodog4
Future Grumpy Old Man


Gender: Male
Location: Calgary
Canada

  • #80
  • Posted: 06/08/2014 19:16
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I really see the merits of Jack's point. There's a lot to be said for resiliency. Our schools and parents are in too much of a rush to protect kids against 'negativity'. That said, bullying can be crippling and we do need to work to prevent it through creating positive environments in schools and enhancing supports and resiliency in the victims.

However, having worked in schools for years, the word 'bullying' is getting overused. It's lost it's power and meaning. Parents, schools and kids use it now for any unacceptable behaviour, and it's often used to add weight to a claim, sway others, or label. Bullying must be three things: 1. It must be intentional. 2. It must be repeated. 3. It must be used to lower another person. Kids can act in clumsy, ignorant, impulsive and emotional ways without it being bullying. Kids can hurt each other without it being bullying. Because of it's overuse, people are now starting to downplay the word, and as a result, are ignoring the few situations of actual abuse.

It's too easy to blame any anti-social or violent behaviour on the results of bullying. Most of these situations have complex causes.
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