Best Ever Albums

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Aug 2012 22:22:55 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/06/2012 02:22

Nothing ever has been or will be as good as this:

Quote:

Hey Charlie I'm pregnant and living on 9th street
Right above a dirty bookstore off Euclid Avenue
And I stopped takin' dope and I quit drinkin' whiskey
And my old man plays the trombone and he works out at the track

He says that he loves me, even though it's not his baby
He says that he'll raise him up like he would his own son
He gave me a ring that was worn by his mother
And he takes me out dancin' every Saturday night

Hey Charlie I think about you every time I pass a fillin' station
On account of all the grease you used to wear in your hair
And I still have that record by Little Anthony and The Imperials
But someone stole my record player, now how do you like that?

Hey Charlie I almost went crazy after Mario got busted
I went back to Omaha to live with my folks
Everyone I used to know was either dead or in prison
So I came back to Minneapolis, this time I think I'm gonna stay a while

Hey Charlie I think I'm happy for the first time since my accident
I wish I had all the money that we used to spend on dope
I'd buy me a used car lot, but I wouldn't sell any of 'em
I'd just drive a different car every day, dependin' on how I feel

Hey Charlie for Christ's sake, do you want to know the truth of it?
I don't have a husband, he don't play the trombone
And I need to borrow money, you see, to pay off this lawyer
They say I'll be eligible for parole come Valentines' day

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Aug 2012 22:15:02 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/06/2012 02:15

Neither as good as these:

Quote:

After a while we took in the clothes
Nobody said very much
Just some old wild shirts and a couple pairs of pants
Which nobody really wanted to touch
Mama come in and picked up a book
An’ Papa asked her what it was
Someone else asked, “What do you care?”
Papa said, “Well, just because”
Then they started to take back their clothes
Hang ’em on the line
It was January the thirtieth
And everybody was feelin’ fine

The next day everybody got up
Seein’ if the clothes were dry
The dogs were barking, a neighbor passed
Mama, of course, she said, “Hi!”
“Have you heard the news?” he said, with a grin
“The Vice-President’s gone mad!”
“Where?” “Downtown.” “When?” “Last night”
“Hmm, say, that’s too bad!”
“Well, there’s nothin’ we can do about it,” said the neighbor
“It’s just somethin’ we’re gonna have to forget”
“Yes, I guess so,” said Ma
Then she asked me if the clothes was still wet

I reached up, touched my shirt
And the neighbor said, “Are those clothes yours?”
I said, “Some of ’em, not all of ’em”
He said, “Ya always help out around here with the chores?”
I said, “Sometime, not all the time”
Then my neighbor, he blew his nose
Just as Papa yelled outside
“Mama wants you t’ come back in the house and bring them clothes”
Well, I just do what I’m told
So, I did it, of course
I went back in the house and Mama met me
And then I shut all the doors

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Aug 2012 15:09:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/05/2012 19:09

Quote:

Wiggle wiggle wiggle like a gypsy queen
Wiggle wiggle wiggle all dressed in green
Wiggle wiggle wiggle till the moon is blue
Wiggle till the moon sees you.

Wiggle wiggle wiggle in your boots and shoes
Wiggle wiggle wiggle you got nothing to loose
Wiggle wiggle wiggle like a swarm of bees
Wiggle on your hands and knees.

Wiggle to the front wiggle to the rear
Wiggle till you wiggle right out of here
Wiggle till it opens wiggle till it shuts
Wiggle till it bites wiggle till it cuts.

Wiggle wiggle wiggle like a bowl of soap
Wiggle wiggle wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle wiggle wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle you can raise the dead.

Wiggle till you're high wiggle till you're higher
Wiggle till you vomit fire
Wiggle till it whispers wiggle till it hums
Wiggle till it answers wiggle till it comes.

Wiggle wiggle wiggle like satin and silk
Wiggle wiggle wiggle like a pail of milk
Wiggle wiggle wiggle all rattle and shake
Wiggle like a big fat snake!

Has Joanna Newsom ever written lyrics as great as those? No. No she hasn't.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Aug 2012 15:05:55 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/05/2012 19:05

Mr. Shankly wrote:

OK. Those are good lyrics, but I still prefer Desolation Row. I don't know if you've studied English literature or not, but she reminds me more of the romantic poets like Wordsworth, whereas classic Dylan is more in the vein of the modernists, which I prefer. Desolation Row owes a debt to T.S. Eliot, for example. I also think their genders are connected to their lyrical approaches in a way. Although Newsom's lyrics are deeply impressionistic and full of imagery and metaphors like Dylan's, they also seem very personal in a way. Dylan's lyrics are rarely personal (with a few exceptions) With that in mind, I forgot Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, which is both personal and amazing, lyrically. My problem with Newsom is, I don't find her to be very tuneful, so it requires a great deal of patience to listen to her because her melodies are so droney and awkward. I think I've made it through the entirety of Y's twice. Which Dylan songs would you hold up as great? You don't think Desolation Row is amazing? 😲 Because I don't think there's a better song lyrically in pop or rock.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :wink:

Yes. Newsom is all Woolf and Bronte sisters (indeed, Good Intentions Paving Company is largely inspired by Jane Eyre (see ch. 14 for the title inspiration)) and Dylan is all Ginsberg and Kerouac. Like you prefer the latter, I prefer the former. Their are better modernists, like Gaddis and Pynchon, but Dylan doesn't follow their style as closely as the beats. In fact I think the beats, and by extension Dylan, are cheap; their symbolism is heartless and unnatural.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:29:26 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/26/2012 17:29

Newsom is Dylan's long lost niece.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:58:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/26/2012 10:58

Mr. Shankly wrote:

No I certainly have not studied English Literature, although I agree Newsom's lyrics seem far more personal, although I am not sure if I prefer that or not. And yes with that in mind, Sad Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands was what I was thinking of when I said you had not picked the best songs "lyricly" in Dylans Repertoire. I would also include Visions Of Johanna and Tangled Up In Blue. I just couldn't disagree more with your discription of her melodies, I find her voice and compostions captivating. I love Desolation Row, I just don't think it's his best 😄 Doesn't compare to Ballad Of A Thin Man anyway.

So yeah, agree to disagree I guess. 😄

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Mr. Shankly — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:41:40 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 07/26/2012 10:41

Polythene Pam wrote:

Most people will tell you this is her best song, I disagree, however I will say the best lyrics I have heard are in this song.

Link

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:21:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/26/2012 10:21

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Oh, well the answer would still be Dylan. Enlighten me: What has Newsom written that is as strong lyrically as It's Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding, Mr. Tambourine Man, Subterranean Homesick Blues, My Back Pages, Stuck Inside of Mobile With the Memphis Blues Again, With God on Our Side, A Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, The Times They Are a Changin', Idiot Wind, Ballad of A Thin Man, and Desolation fuckin' Row?!! ... I'll stop there.

Most people will tell you this is her best song, I disagree, however I will say the best lyrics I have heard are in this song.

Link

The only song that comes close is Ballad Of A Thin Man which you have mentioned.

As for other songs that rival and even surpass Dylan lyricly include (imo of course) Emily, Monkey and Bear, Jackrabbits, Peach Plum Pear and Have One Me.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Dylan he is my 2nd favourite artist however I prefer the beautiful and immersive imagery Joanna is able to seamlessly create, to that of Dylan's critical and sarcastic portrayal of his subjects.

Also I don't think you chose Dylans best songs as your examples 😜

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Mr. Shankly — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 05:57:04 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 07/26/2012 09:57

Polythene Pam wrote:

Since when has influence been a deciding factor in your decisions Mr Shankly? Spending too much time with Hairymarx? 😜

Perhaps this should have just been a question of who you prefer as a lyricist.

And seeing as I brought it up. Joanna Newsom > Bob Dylan.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 04:58:16 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/26/2012 08:58

Since when has influence been a deciding factor in your decisions Mr Shankly? Spending too much time with Hairymarx? 😜

Perhaps this should have just been a question of who you prefer as a lyricist.

And seeing as I brought it up. Joanna Newsom > Bob Dylan.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Facetious — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 04:23:58 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 07/26/2012 08:23

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Joanna Newsom, might be talented, but this is a ridiculous comparison. It's kind of like saying who was better, the 1929 Yankees or the 2011 Cardinals? Babe Ruth or Alex Rodriguez? Gee, let me think. 🤔 🤣

I guess my first question would be, how many important artists do you think Joanna Newsom has influenced and how many do you think Bob Dylan has? Take your time.

Forget influence. Who was the artist who made Highway 61 Revisited, which is just the greatest album of all time? Take your time remembering the name.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Mr. Shankly — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 04:21:43 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 07/26/2012 08:21

Joanna Newsom, may be talented, but this is a ridiculous comparison! It's kind of like saying who was better, the 1929 Yankees or the 2011 Cardinals? Babe Ruth or Alex Rodriguez? Gee, let me think. 🤔 🤣

I guess my first question would be, how many important artists do you think Joanna Newsom has influenced and how many do you think Bob Dylan has? Take your time.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

btener11 — Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:15 GMT

Author: btener11

Posted: 07/20/2012 21:47

what an odd comparison...

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Facetious — Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:50:24 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 07/20/2012 12:50

Borve Baunehoj wrote:

People always seems to underrate Bob Dylan's abilities as a songwriter. He has written a bigger amount of catchy tunes and great melodies than The Beatles have. His structures might not be very complex, but I think the simplicity gives his songs a lot of charm and might be what really makes them work: he insists that four chords can make a +10 minute tune, and he succeed it while still manage to keep things entertaining and interesting. He can make a song constantly searching for new elements while being stuck to a monotone chord progression and without adding any significant arrangements. One of the reasons why Bob Dylan is my favorite musician.

And I'm not trying denigrate Joanna Newsom. I've only heard one of her album, Ys. And I've given that album a perfect 100/100 score, it's currently no. 14 on my overall chart as well as no. 1 on my 2000s chart. That one album is enough to make her one of my favorite artists, and I'm sure as I'll discover her works further in future, her status will only rise. I'll just say that Newsom is Newsom and Dylan is Dylan: Bob Dylan performing Only Skin would sound pathetic, and Joanna Newsom performing Desolation Row would sound pathetic. They aren't the same kind of singer/songwriter.

Exactly.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:18:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2012 15:18

This is a cruel and difficult poll. In the end however I have to choose Dylan.

I think Borve's post says most of what I feel.

I should note that people might be slightly exaggerating the complexity of Joanna Newsom's songs. Most often they quite complex compared to most musicians, but she has also written quite a few simple 3 or 4 chord things as well.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sat, 14 Jul 2012 09:39:18 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2012 13:39

People always seems to underrate Bob Dylan's abilities as a songwriter. He has written a bigger amount of catchy tunes and great melodies than The Beatles have. His structures might not be very complex, but I think the simplicity gives his songs a lot of charm and might be what really makes them work: he insists that four chords can make a +10 minute tune, and he succeed it while still manage to keep things entertaining and interesting. He can make a song constantly searching for new elements while being stuck to a monotone chord progression and without adding any significant arrangements. One of the reasons why Bob Dylan is my favorite musician.

And I'm not trying denigrate Joanna Newsom. I've only heard one of her album, Ys. And I've given that album a perfect 100/100 score, it's currently no. 14 on my overall chart as well as no. 1 on my 2000s chart. That one album is enough to make her one of my favorite artists, and I'm sure as I'll discover her works further in future, her status will only rise. I'll just say that Newsom is Newsom and Dylan is Dylan: Bob Dylan performing Only Skin would sound pathetic, and Joanna Newsom performing Desolation Row would sound pathetic. They aren't the same kind of singer/songwriter.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:42:59 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2012 10:42

I think Newsom's compositions are much more intellectual and intricate, but Bob Dylan is far better at lyrics, storytelling and being consistently brilliant.

Both are geniuses I'd say - Newsom at song writing and Bob Dylan at connecting it's listeners to characters and worlds. The latter of which, I'd say, is that much more powerful for me to vote for Dylan.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:04:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2012 10:04

Goddammit! 🤬 Didn't I warn? Don't even joke about it! I would have locked this thread if I were a moderator. 🧱 An insult to humanity, that's what this thread is all about, that is!!

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Facetious — Sat, 14 Jul 2012 02:35:25 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 07/14/2012 06:35

Both have got great vocals, but I slightly prefer Dylan's.
Both have got great lyrics, but I slightly prefer Dylan's.
Both have got at least two really amazing albums, but I slightly prefer Dylan's.

So, both are overall great artists, but I slightly prefer Dylan.

Re: Joanna Newsom vs Bob Dylan

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:06:36 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2012 02:06

I'm surprised. this is perhaps the only poll/matchup Joanna Newsom wouldn't win on this site (other than perhaps Radiohead, The Beatles or Arcade Fire). Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but since Dylan already has had his time in the sun let's go with Newsom