Best Ever Albums

Re: Artist nationality

junodog4 — Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:52:23 GMT

Author: junodog4

Posted: 03/05/2013 16:52

albummaster wrote:

Apologies, just sifted through twelve pages of this, so apologies if I've missed anything. At the moment, the UK is being used as a catch-all for the constituent countries. At some stage, BEA will capture this in more detail and also add the city of origin so that we could then use the data to drill into bands from Seattle, Liverpool, Bristol etc and allow us to plot the data geo-spatially. Personally, I'd prefer to wait until this is added before revising the list of countries too much (I think as well there might be other affected countries in BEA's country list, apart from those in the UK). There are also a few knock-on effects that make this quite a bit of work and I'd prefer to do this as a single unit of work, rather than have to re-visit it multiple times (particularly, given the time constraints I am operating under at the moment).

This sounds really cool. And a lot of work. So thanks in advance.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Tue, 5 Mar 2013 08:36:03 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 13:36

RFNAPLES wrote:

Sorry, I don't agree that Scotland, Northern Ireland and England are separate Nations (as defined in its legal sense). Perhaps you see them so colloquially but not legally. Don't you think that maybe the world's leaders have given this subject greater study than BEA? If England, Scotland and Wales were separate countries/nations they would be members of the United Nations, etc.

Hehe. This is ridiculous. Where is that legal sense or definition of nation? Can you give citations for your facts? There's no legal definition for nation.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Tue, 5 Mar 2013 08:33:28 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 13:33

RFNAPLES wrote:

Q: Why is a mule stubborn?
A: Because he has horse sense

On a side-note, scientific researches have shown that stubbornness in animals indicates a higher IQ. So cats have higher IQ than dogs and donkeys have higher IQ than horses.

Re: Artist nationality

albummaster — Tue, 5 Mar 2013 04:46:46 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 03/05/2013 09:46

Apologies, just sifted through twelve pages of this, so apologies if I've missed anything. At the moment, the UK is being used as a catch-all for the constituent countries. At some stage, BEA will capture this in more detail and also add the city of origin so that we could then use the data to drill into bands from Seattle, Liverpool, Bristol etc and allow us to plot the data geo-spatially. Personally, I'd prefer to wait until this is added before revising the list of countries too much (I think as well there might be other affected countries in BEA's country list, apart from those in the UK). There are also a few knock-on effects that make this quite a bit of work and I'd prefer to do this as a single unit of work, rather than have to re-visit it multiple times (particularly, given the time constraints I am operating under at the moment).

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Tue, 5 Mar 2013 02:09:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 07:09

I don't want stir the pot anymore, but Im really fascinated in what is trying to be achieved here. It's like a bad courtroom drama where every single piece of concrete evidience that clearly defines the difference between calling something a nation and a sovereign state is constantly rejected by someone who only pretends to be a proper judge. Can someone with authority just proclaim that we're going to classify bands either by their nationality or what sovereign state they belong to, and just.... end this argument? hopefully?

Re: Artist nationality

videoheadcleaner — Tue, 5 Mar 2013 01:57:27 GMT

Author: videoheadcleaner

Posted: 03/05/2013 06:57

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:57:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:57

RFNAPLES wrote:

Your point? Don't Louisiana and Connecticut have separate cultures? Separate accents? Separate ways of living? They still are not separate nations/sovereign states/countries.

I meant as a COUNTRY. Freaking duh! OK, forget that!

Re: Artist nationality

RFNAPLES — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:56:39 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:56

Your point? Don't Louisiana and Connecticut have separate cultures? Separate accents? Separate ways of living? They still are not separate nations/sovereign states/countries.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:56:33 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:56

Stop what? I was just thinking culture coukd be something. But you did put an interesting point, Jason.

Re: Artist nationality

Jasonconfused — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:54:43 GMT

Author: Jasonconfused

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:54

JMan wrote:

What about culture? Don't Ireland Scotland and England have seperate cultures? Seperate accents? Seperate ways of living?

JMan, stop. Neighborhoods have separate cultures and ways of living. No, wait. HOUSEHOLDS have separate of all these things. Let them handle this.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:53:01 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:53

What about culture? Don't Ireland Scotland and England have seperate cultures? Seperate accents? Seperate ways of living?

Re: Artist nationality

RFNAPLES — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:47:17 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:47

Magenta wrote:

So this appears to be our problem... you're definitions aren't precise enough and you are using them interchangeably and colloquially, whereas I am using them in their dictionary defined sense . So to clear up this little disagreement once and for all, the dictionary defines as follows :

Nation: a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history.
Absolutely applicable to England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland as separate entities

Country: a region, territory, or large tract of land distinguishable by features of topography, biology, or culture
Absolutely applicable to England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland as separate entities

Sovereign State: a state which administers its own government, and is not dependent upon, or subject to, another power.
Partially applicable to England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland as separate entities. However I do agree the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the sovereign state in question and not the four countries or nations that comprise it. However this is merely a political entity and if you refer to the other definitions then you will clearly see that Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England are both Nations and Countries in their own right.

Therefore to come back to the point of this thread - Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England are separate Nations (as defined in its legal sense) and therefore have their own nationality - so if AM so chooses could legitimately be set up as nationalities in their own right within the system.

I am now bored of proving you wrong every 5 minutes and I know you are never going to admit it so this will be my last post on the subject.

Slán agat - Imeacht gan teacht ort

:D

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:23:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 02:23

RFNAPLES wrote:

I see Nation=Sovereign State=Country. We disagree on definitions. I use the colloquial and you use the correct legal definitions.

Re: Artist nationality

RFNAPLES — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:38:57 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 03/05/2013 01:38

Magenta wrote:

Again you aren't reading what I said

"You said... the rest of the British Isles compete as Great Britain
I said... no they don't because the Republic of Ireland competes on its own." YES the rest of the British Isles (not including the Republic of Ireland) compete as Great Britain.

"For citations.. I refer you to the founding charters of each of those organisations you mentioned where the soverignty of each member state is acknowledged. I know you won't read them so I can't be bothered looking them up for you." You might want to look them up for yourself, I think you will find I am right.

"I also refer you to the Treaty of Union which defines the principles of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where it is stated that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland comprises of 4 countries. and the 'Countries within a country' document issued by the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 2003." I doubt it since in 1706 Northern Ireland did not exist. Article 1 states "That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom by the Name of GREAT BRITAIN."

"So it would seem Naples that everyone else in the world gets that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 countries... They get that Scotland is a different country and nation from England.. they they have their own customs and language, government and law." It doesn't seem that way to me, since the UN, NOC, EU, NATO, WTO and World Court all don't.

"So the only reasons I can see that you aren't getting this is because

a. You are having problems grasping the concept of 4 countries forming a union... in which case there is not much point in me carrying on this discussion because I don't know how to spell it out more simply.

b. You are just being stubborn and refusing to accept that you are wrong (based on past behaviour most likely). In which case there is not much point in carrying on this discussion either because you will always continue to be wrong but refuse to accept it.

c. Your definition of country and nation is so vastly different from the rest of the worlds and is purely based on a 'state' (based on your apparent loathing of the state and its communist overtones, unlikely). But if this is the case please provide a definition of both in political terms and I will be happy discuss further." I see Nation=Sovereign State=Country. We disagree on definitions. I use the legal and you use a colloquial.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:24:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 01:24

RFNAPLES wrote:

Yes I read every word you wrote.

Did you see that I asked for citations? I cannot verify your "facts." Let Wikipedia call them countries but they are not nations therefore they are not nationalities. Northern Ireland is not recognized by the NOC (Only FIFA). Ireland is recognized, not Northern Ireland.

Two sovereign states are located on the British Isles: Ireland (additionally described as the Republic of Ireland, covering five-sixths of the island of the same name) and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom). Ireland may competed against the UK but it is not a member of the UK.

BTW I have friends that live out in the country too. And yes there is the Great Sioux Nation but it is not a Nation in the global sense.

Again you aren't reading what I said

You said... the rest of the British Isles compete as Great Britain
I said... no they don't because the Republic of Ireland competes on its own.

For citations.. I refer you to the founding charters of each of those organisations you mentioned where the soverignty of each member state is acknowledged. I know you won't read them so I can't be bothered looking them up for you.

I also refer you to the Treaty of Union which defines the principles of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where it is stated that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland comprises of 4 countries. and the 'Countries within a country' document issued by the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 2003.

So it would seem Naples that everyone else in the world gets that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 countries... They get that Scotland is a different country and nation from England.. they they have their own customs and language, government and law.

So the only reasons I can see that you aren't getting this is because

a. You are having problems grasping the concept of 4 countries forming a union... in which case there is not much point in me carrying on this discussion because I don't know how to spell it out more simply.

b. You are just being stubborn and refusing to accept that you are wrong (based on past behaviour most likely). In which case there is not much point in carrying on this discussion either because you will always continue to be wrong but refuse to accept it.

c. Your definition of country and nation is so vastly different from the rest of the worlds and is purely based on a 'state' (based on your apparent loathing of the state and its communist overtones, unlikely). But if this is the case please provide a definition of both in political terms and I will be happy discuss further.

Re: Artist nationality

RFNAPLES — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:22:55 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 03/05/2013 01:22

Q: Why is a mule stubborn?
A: Because he has horse sense

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:12:48 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 01:12

RFNAPLES wrote:

If two or more stone walls disagree who is more stubborn?

A question the world may never know the answer to...

Re: Artist nationality

RFNAPLES — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:10:32 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 03/05/2013 01:10

Jasonconfused wrote:

Oh he gets it. It just isn't in his nature to admit that he is wrong. It's like arguing with a stone wall. Actually, a stone wall might actually budge.

If two or more stone walls disagree who is more stubborn?

Re: Artist nationality

RFNAPLES — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 19:59:56 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 03/05/2013 00:59

Magenta wrote:

Did you actually read what I posted?

If you had, then you would know that I never said that England, Scotland or Wales were individual member states of any of those organisations. What I said was that they are RECOGNISED as COUNTRIES within the union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland by all of those organisations. It is a founding principle of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so by acknowledging the soverignty of the member state (which is part of the founding charter of each organisation), then these organisations are by default acknowledging that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 separate countries. It's really not that hard but it is what the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is.

Look even wiki gets it... 'The form of government is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. The capital city is London. It consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The latter three have devolved administrations, each with varying powers, based in their capital cities, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast respectively'

And the other British Isles don't compete as Great Britain. The Republic of Ireland (very much part of the British Isles) competes on it's own behalf and has done since 1924.

Anyway politics aside... if a Welsh band (like Super Furry Animals) defines themselves as Welsh and sings in Welsh... then why should they not be defined as being from Wales on a music website.

Re: Artist nationality

Anonymous — Mon, 4 Mar 2013 19:42:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/05/2013 00:42

Jasonconfused wrote:

Oh he gets it. It just isn't in his nature to admit that he is wrong. It's like arguing with a stone wall. Actually, a stone wall might actually budge.

A stone furby 😄