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Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

revolver94 — Mon, 27 May 2013 20:43:18 GMT

Author: revolver94

Posted: 05/28/2013 00:43

ppnw wrote:

Do vegans swallow?

It probably depends on their abortion views. heh.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Jasonconfused — Mon, 27 May 2013 16:06:59 GMT

Author: Jasonconfused

Posted: 05/27/2013 20:06

ppnw wrote:

Do vegans swallow?

Probably depends on their partner's eating habits. Eat more pineapple and drink less coffee, and you might find yourself a swallowing vegan.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Mon, 27 May 2013 15:57:23 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/27/2013 19:57

Do vegans swallow?

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

TracyJacks — Mon, 27 May 2013 14:04:21 GMT

Author: TracyJacks

Posted: 05/27/2013 18:04

I used to be a vegetarian for 1,5 years,but after a while I weighed only 99lbs so because of that I gave up and started to eat meat again. I felt sick though I didn't miss eating meat.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

revolver94 — Sun, 19 May 2013 10:24:27 GMT

Author: revolver94

Posted: 05/19/2013 14:24

Jackwc wrote:

Das pretty much the whole forum son.
I'm in the right mind to say that there may be more than one.
I'm on my ballin' each and every day,
Bisexshal people erywhere, it's BEA.

🤣

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Jackwc — Sun, 19 May 2013 09:54:41 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 05/19/2013 13:54

JMan wrote:

I've never heard a bisexual use "faggy." Then again, Jack's the first person out of the closet I know.

Link

Michael's apology is the part to watch.

Das pretty much the whole forum son.
I'm in the right mind to say that there may be more than one.
I'm on my ballin' each and every day,
Bisexshal people erywhere, it's BEA.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Sun, 19 May 2013 06:27:54 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/19/2013 10:27

Jackwc wrote:

/thread? Not while some faggy moral vegetarians are allowed to get out of this unscathed to get back to crying over chicken graves and not bathing. I'm assuming you're a pinko too. Ugh, so predictable.

Animal-based products are in pretty much everything - including pretty much all instruments and computers, so, you know, tekin, you should probably both stop listening to music in general and stop posting in forums. You should also cripple the fuck out of your own legs, cause polio vaccine? That shit came about thanks to monkey experimentation. How about smallpox? Anthrax? Tetanus? We have vaccines for all of them thanks to animal experimentation. A great deal of our advancement as a species owes to using animals for our own gains. And why shouldn't we? Quick answer, you unwashed hippy: we should.

Animals understand death and companionship and love and et cetera, but they still eat each other. Ever seen how affectionate dogs can be? Ever seen those teeth they got on them? Ever see a coyote tear into another animals throat? Here you go:

Link

Also, we're biologically equipped to be omnivores. Our stomachs produce hydrochloric acid, something herbivores don't. Plus they usually have multi-compartmental stomachs like cows, deer, sheep, etc... So eating animals is in our nature. It's in our biology. We are the dominant species on this planet and we can and will use it's resources to better serve us. If they coyotes had thumbs and improved cognitive functions they'd be farming and eating us. And why shouldn't they.

P.S. This isn't directed at any users in particular, but hey, if any of you want to bitch that's cool #yolo

You wouldn't have wrote this fuckton of pure shite if you've actually read this thread. If you had the deducing powers of a fried shrimp you could've understood what my answer to this shitload of dimwittedness would be. Pinko? 🤣 Although I'm not "pinko" but you don't know shit about communism or anything else for that matter; In page 7 I wrote:

tekin wrote:

I believe in libertarian utilitarian moral codes so I think they are valid for all cultures.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

revolver94 — Sun, 19 May 2013 01:54:19 GMT

Author: revolver94

Posted: 05/19/2013 05:54

JMan wrote:

I've never heard a bisexual use "faggy." Then again, Jack's the first person out of the closet I know.

Link

Michael's apology is the part to watch.

You can make that 2 people, JMan...

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Sun, 19 May 2013 01:28:36 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/19/2013 05:28

Jackwc wrote:

/thread? Not while some faggy moral vegetarians are allowed to get out of this unscathed to get back to crying over chicken graves and not bathing.

I've never heard a bisexual use "faggy." Then again, Jack's the first person out of the closet I know.

Link

Michael's apology is the part to watch.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

revolver94 — Sun, 19 May 2013 00:29:44 GMT

Author: revolver94

Posted: 05/19/2013 04:29

Jackwc wrote:

I'm assuming you're a pinko too. Ugh, so predictable.

hellz yeah

ya bish

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2013 23:29:36 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/19/2013 03:29

Ohhhhh!!! She just told ya'll bitches to go fuck yourself.

#Gofuckyourself

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Jackwc — Sat, 18 May 2013 21:51:16 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 05/19/2013 01:51

/thread? Not while some f**gy moral vegetarians are allowed to get out of this unscathed to get back to crying over chicken graves and not bathing. I'm assuming you're a pinko too. Ugh, so predictable.

Animal-based products are in pretty much everything - including pretty much all instruments and computers, so, you know, tekin, you should probably both stop listening to music in general and stop posting in forums. You should also cripple the fuck out of your own legs, cause polio vaccine? That shit came about thanks to monkey experimentation. How about smallpox? Anthrax? Tetanus? We have vaccines for all of them thanks to animal experimentation. A great deal of our advancement as a species owes to using animals for our own gains. And why shouldn't we? Quick answer, you unwashed hippy: we should.

Animals understand death and companionship and love and et cetera, but they still eat each other. Ever seen how affectionate dogs can be? Ever seen those teeth they got on them? Ever see a coyote tear into another animals throat? Here you go:

Link

Also, we're biologically equipped to be omnivores. Our stomachs produce hydrochloric acid, something herbivores don't. Plus they usually have multi-compartmental stomachs like cows, deer, sheep, etc... So eating animals is in our nature. It's in our biology. We are the dominant species on this planet and we can and will use it's resources to better serve us. If they coyotes had thumbs and improved cognitive functions they'd be farming and eating us. And why shouldn't they.

P.S. This isn't directed at any users in particular, but hey, if any of you want to bitch that's cool #yolo

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2013 10:31:01 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/18/2013 14:31

/thread. I can go on but we've reached a point that we know our disagreements and I think we should be happy with that.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

HigherThanTheSun — Sat, 18 May 2013 08:11:42 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 05/18/2013 12:11

tekin wrote:

No, it wasn't to show that those forms of life are equal. It was to show that the reasons people give to justify meat consumption is all relative and can be refuted in special cases and a basic reason that can be refuted by a special case is refuted for all cases. So when I argue that when you try to say that we kill and eat animals because humans have such and such properties which animals don't have, your reasons are groundless because when even a human doesn't have such and such properties (so basically not different from a highly intelligent animal) again you will consider killing him immoral while killing that animal moral. Refuting a point doesn't prove its negation.

Fair enough. Think I explained, or tried to, why I have more of an issue killing a braindead man than a chicken though.

tekin wrote:

There's no such thing as absolute intelligence. They can be defined relative to each other. I think that the case of super-intelligent alien shows this completely. We humans think that animals don't have some feelings and mental faculties and therefore we kill and eat them. I don't see why a super-intelligent alien cannot tell that for us.

Don't get this at all. Of course you can have an absolute level of intelligence. You can measure a living thing's ability to do/think/feel certain things against an objective measure rather than against other living things.

tekin wrote:

First of all I'm not your average poophead urban machine to have this everpresent question of "Do I hate this or love it?" I won't hate anybody because of eating meat or thinking in a certain way. 90% of people around me eat meat; I'd have a miserable life if I hated them for it. For me the fact that we give life to animals merely for the purpose of raising them and killing and eating them is even more repellent. You say they aren't aware of it; but do you know that before you eat meat or do you think that is the reason people will try to justify meat consumption with? Read these very short articles:
http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/N...rning.aspx
http://www.newscientist.com/blog/shorts...umans.html

And also this is interesting if you want to waste half an hour of your life:
http://www.beliefnet.com/Inspiration/Ho...perer.aspx

And you say if they are raised ethically; they aren't in most cases: http://www.cafothebook.org/

Poophead urban machine 🤣

Whether people have their arguments before deciding to eat meat or to justify it after is irrelevant IMO, they're still the same arguments. Those articles talked about chimps and elephants having some sort of awareness of death but I don't think that's very relevant to the argument, cows still don't grieve for other dead cows.

And no, most animals raised for meat aren't raised ethically but that's a different debate to the principle of whether it's moral to eat meat at all or not.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Fri, 17 May 2013 05:30:09 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/17/2013 09:30

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

Your argument about the braindead man was clearly comparing the value of human life to animal life to try and prove the hypocrisy, or 'specism', of meateaters but whatever.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

No I don't think it is about the relative inteligence of animals vs humans. Animals lack the ability to think and feel certain things and even if you introduce the idea of a super intelligent alien species this does not affect the absolute intelligence of humans or animals which is what is in question.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

The argument of whether a burger is worth the life of a cow is much simpler and makes much more sense IMO. Though you have the fact that these animals wouldn't have life in the first place if it weren't for the fact that people eat them, and if they are raised ethically and aren't aware that they're going to die (they're obviously not) then I actually don't have a massive problem with it. Again, you probably hate me for that but oh well.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

HigherThanTheSun — Thu, 16 May 2013 17:20:53 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 05/16/2013 21:20

Your argument about the braindead man was clearly comparing the value of human life to animal life to try and prove the hypocrisy, or 'specism', of meateaters but whatever.

No I don't think it is about the relative inteligence of animals vs humans. Animals lack the ability to think and feel certain things and even if you introduce the idea of a super intelligent alien species this does not affect the absolute intelligence of humans or animals which is what is in question.

The argument of whether a burger is worth the life of a cow is much simpler and makes much more sense IMO. Though you have the fact that these animals wouldn't have life in the first place if it weren't for the fact that people eat them, and if they are raised ethically and aren't aware that they're going to die (they're obviously not) then I actually don't have a massive problem with it. Again, you probably hate me for that but oh well.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Thu, 16 May 2013 06:33:11 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/16/2013 10:33

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

As far as I see it your (Tekin's) main argument for not eating meat is that all species life is worth an equal amount, which is something I definitely don't agree with. So you don't like generalisations of human life being more than other species' life and you present a situation of the brain dead man as an example of human life that you might expect someone to value as less or equal to that of an animal, but I don't really think that exposes the intelligence argument though. If people feel this way about the braindead guy it's because they immediately imagine him and feel they know him, have an emotional attachment to him and they have sensibilities towards killing a fellow human, ie they empathise with him in a way they can't with a chicken.

If you do genuinely consider an ant's life equal to that of a human's (any ant, any human) then I don't really know what more to say other than that I disagree entirely.

My main argument (which I think is obvious that isn't mine originally) was not that all forms of life are equal. I didn't say anything like that and I try to avoid as much as possible evaluating value of different forms of life because it's relative and it's clear from the "super-intelligent alien" example that can be used against humans. My main argument is this which I've pointed out earlier in this thread:

tekin wrote:

The most important reason for arguing against eating meat is that you take a life for luxury. You can easily live without it.

Yes; it's not that a sheep's or pig's life (we don't eat ants in industrial amounts) is equal to that of a human. That's nonsense and doesn't prove anything. As if I say if a lion attacked a human and we had to kill one of them to save the other one's life we had to morally choose which one we have to kill. We simply would kill the lion. People talk here as if it's a case of life of man on one scalepan and life of an animal on the other. Our whole discussion has nothing to do with life of human. When we think that killing animals is immoral we don't say that in case of a dying human who needs the meat to survive so we think he should not use the meat and should die. No many of those who eat the meat can easily replace it with sth else. It's the contrast of taking an animal's life and enjoying the taste of meat not a contrast of taking an animal's life and taking a human life.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

HigherThanTheSun — Wed, 15 May 2013 18:56:25 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 05/15/2013 22:56

lethalnezzle wrote:

Christ almighty, can we stop with the fucking moralising already?

Well tbf this whole thread is an argument about the morality of eating meat so I don't really see your problem. I disagree with Tekin's main argument but it's still a way better argument than "meat is tasty so I don't care". If you think nobody has a right to criticise the morality of eating meat then counter their argument rather than criticise them for daring challenge your idea of morality, try and justify why you think it's ok to eat meat if it's not too hard.

Defago wrote:

Now, I don't think the problem is on the eating part, but on the killing part. If you want to eat a dead human's body under your possession, it's weird, but it's not wrong. At least not for me. I consider killing a human wrong, though, and I wouldn't do it except on the most extreme situations. I don't have the same qualm with killing a spider, an ant, a bird, or a dog. I certainly seek to avoid unnecessary pain or trouble to them - I'm not going around kicking dogs for the fun of it, and consciously abusing them is plainly wrong - but I don't think anyone here thinks stepping on an ant is a crime of the same level as crushing a human being to death. I don't think killing a cow at the same level of moral wrongness as killing a human. Mainly because the human is smarter, is self aware and is worth more to society alive than dead, unlike the cow. Like I said, even babies are potentially smarter, self aware and worth more monetarily speaking than the cow.

EyeKanFly wrote:

However, I refuse to eat meat because of the current state of environmental health. The primary cause of deforestation is over-farming (mostly for cow, which requires a lot of land compared to pig/chicken/etc.), and the biggest single way a human being can help reduce his/her carbon footprint is by not eating meat

Aye, when I mentioned in my first post that "There's plenty of ethical reasons besides the fact that animals feel pain when dying that might make someone want to be vegetarian, more important ones too IMO" this was mainly what I was talking about, principally world food shortage and the environmental aspect of eating meat. These are far better reasons to be vegetarian than worrying about killing animals IMO and they're the ony reason I feel slightly guilty for eating meat.

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

EyeKanFly — Wed, 15 May 2013 17:02:05 GMT

Author: EyeKanFly

Posted: 05/15/2013 21:02

"I hate animals so much I don't want them anywhere near my food"

Just kidding. I am a vegetarian, but for different reasons than most. I see nothing ethically wrong with eating cow as eating tomatoes. It's all life, I suppose.

However, I refuse to eat meat because of the current state of environmental health. The primary cause of deforestation is over-farming (mostly for cow, which requires a lot of land compared to pig/chicken/etc.), and the biggest single way a human being can help reduce his/her carbon footprint is by not eating meat (so I've read and heard from a variety of reputable sources). If you're more interested about this, Mark Bittman sums up my rationale very well in this TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html
Based on my beliefs/rationale, I really should be a vegan, but I just love cheese too goddamn much. I think I could give up eggs, milk, and yogurt, but cheese, that'll be difficult... I used to be a pescitarian, until I realized that ~70-80% of the fish I was eating were either farm-raised (in tanks on land) or fished from regions that have already been overfished. Anyway, I don't have a single close friend or family member who limits their diet for an ethical/moral reason, so I almost always feel like the odd one out at mealtimes, especially at restaurants. Italian restaurants are especially difficult (which is an enormous problem because I absolutely love Italian food).

Well that's my short little food rant. I doubt anyone actually wants to hear more about it, but if you'd like to, I really do love talking about it, and could recommend a few articles/books to take a look at (about both easting habits and environmental awareness).

Re: Vegetarian/vegan/meat/other

Anonymous — Wed, 15 May 2013 15:49:33 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/15/2013 19:49

ptaylor1989 wrote:

This link was something that caught my eye: http://www.panna.org/issues/food-agriculture/industrial-agriculture

Quote:

Organic and other non-industrial farming systems are more than capable of feeding every person on earth using land under current cultivation with far greater resource efficiency and reliability. In fact, the most comprehensive analysis of world agriculture to date, the International Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science and Technology for Development found that "business as usual is not an option." We have to change the way we farm, quickly and on a large scale if we expect to feed a growing and warming planet.