Best Ever Albums

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:44:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/31/2013 09:44

lethalnezzle wrote:

No, being pop-hip-hop or prog-hip-hop doesn't mean it lesser. The fact that it's just an above-average album means it lesser. :wink:

Ha, fair call. The bit about being 'proud' of it is ignorance on my part since there's plenty of albums in the top 100 I'm not proud to see there.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:21:54 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/31/2013 09:21

Jhereko wrote:

Since College Dropout Kanye's been walking a fine line between discussing social issues and discussing himself. Even on Late Registration songs like Roses, Hey Mama and Celebration (3 of the best on the album) are almost entirely about Kanye's personal stuff. On Graduation it got even more personal. His mother had just died and that clearly made Kanye even more introspective. '808's' is where he kind of just dived straight first into personal issues. MBDTF has slight dips into social issues (as bananafish said '21st Century Schizoid Man' etc) but it's always brought back to him on every single song (I mean the very first word in the album title is 'MY').

Agreed. I wasn't at all implying that the lack of social commentary was a bad thing, as I hope you understand, just that to say this album contained any real social commentary was a falsity.

Jhereko wrote:

Now does that matter? Of course it fucking doesn't. Not every song has to be a social commentary. Exploring the self is as important, complex and massive as exploring societal issues and Kanye explores his psyche so brutally and honestly on MBDTF. That's what I love about it, that's what a lot of people love about it. The masturbatory bombast? That's the soundtrack of his life.

Again, I agree that exploring the self is as important as exploring societal issues, and many of my favourite albums attest to that - Pink Moon, Here My Dear, Unknown Pleasures, Pinkerton - but I disagree that this album is a brutal examination of one man's psyche. Sure, it has moments that sound like these huge confessionals, as on 'The Blame Game' (which is my favourite song on the album), but I don't think this album is anywhere near as brutally honest as the other albums I have named in this paragraph. It doesn't speak to me in the same way as any of those, though of course I defend your right to have it speak to you in the way those albums speak to me. I also know that this rant isn't just aimed at me by any means, but I would like to point out, regarding the idea of this being about one man, and particularly the inclusion of the phrase "masturbatory bombast", that I did say MBDTF "is very good at what being what it is - a huge, oversized pop album that acts as a lush audio representation of one man's ego".

Jhereko wrote:

In answering the thread question - I think it's great that a hip-hop album has reached the top 100. There are hip-hop albums I prefer, sure, but I also think the top 20 is pretty boring as shit. I think The Suburbs being the top 50 is a joke but so what? The top 100 is never gonna align completely with my taste, I'd never want it to, but MBDTF is a great album and we should be proud to have it there and let's hope it's the first of many albums to make it.

Again, here is a point on which we massively disagree. My problem is that there are so many better hip-hop albums than MBDTF (at least 150, and probably more like 200), to my mind anyway, that I find it difficult to be happy that a hip-hop album is in the Top 100 when it's this one. I'm not "proud" to see it there, in the same way I'm not "proud" to see other albums I don't love in the Top 100. It's an album I like, as I've previously stated, but not one I love, and certainly not one I think belongs in the Top 100. I think it's madness that this album is rated above Late Registration, let alone the likes of Illmatic or 36 Chambers. That said, I avoided this thread for as long as possible (namely until bananafish made that ridiculous statement that I took issue with) because I largely agree with your sentiment - the Top 100 is never going to be made up of my favourite hundred albums, thank god, and so it really isn't that much of an issue for me. I don't like LZIV either, but its position on our overall chart doesn't bother me. People like it, and that's why it's there. The same goes for this album. I disagree, but I see no benefit to bitching and moaning about it, hence the reason I tried to stay out of this thread.

Jhereko wrote:

One more thing I wanna address (I've avoided this thread because there was constant bullshit being spouted and I wanted to address everything but I've left it to a few irritating qualms) - the idea that this album isn't hip-hop. I mean...what??? For a genre that's pushed so many boundaries it sure has a lot of fans who have a very limited view of what it can be. Of course this is hip-hop - I mean this is a genre where Paid In Full, Straight Outta Compton, 3 Feet High And Rising, Fear Of A Black Planet, The Low End Theory and Check Your Head came out within 5 years of each other. All y'all trying to pigeonhole it should be ashamed.

I agree that this album is hip-hop. This is actually a fantastic point well made that makes me question previous statements I have made about Death Grips not being hip-hop, which was probably a petulant comment made simply because their music makes me feel like an old man (it's just noise). But yeah, MBDTF is hip-hop.

Jhereko wrote:

So what MBDTF might be pop-hip-hop or prog-hip-hop - is that shade? Does that mean it's somehow lesser? Hell no.

No, being pop-hip-hop or prog-hip-hop doesn't mean it lesser. The fact that it's just an above-average album means it lesser. 😉

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 00:07:40 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/31/2013 04:07

Since College Dropout Kanye's been walking a fine line between discussing social issues and discussing himself. Even on Late Registration songs like Roses, Hey Mama and Celebration (3 of the best on the album) are almost entirely about Kanye's personal stuff. On Graduation it got even more personal. His mother had just died and that clearly made Kanye even more introspective. '808's' is where he kind of just dived straight first into personal issues. MBDTF has slight dips into social issues (as bananafish said '21st Century Schizoid Man' etc) but it's always brought back to him on every single song (I mean the very first word in the album title is 'MY').

Now does that matter? Of course it fucking doesn't. Not every song has to be a social commentary. Exploring the self is as important, complex and massive as exploring societal issues and Kanye explores his psyche so brutally and honestly on MBDTF. That's what I love about it, that's what a lot of people love about it. The masturbatory bombast? That's the soundtrack of his life.

In answering the thread question - I think it's great that a hip-hop album has reached the top 100. There are hip-hop albums I prefer, sure, but I also think the top 20 is pretty boring as shit. I think The Suburbs being the top 50 is a joke but so what? The top 100 is never gonna align completely with my taste, I'd never want it to, but MBDTF is a great album and we should be proud to have it there and let's hope it's the first of many albums to make it.

One more thing I wanna address (I've avoided this thread because there was constant bullshit being spouted and I wanted to address everything but I've left it to a few irritating qualms) - the idea that this album isn't hip-hop. I mean...what??? For a genre that's pushed so many boundaries it sure has a lot of fans who have a very limited view of what it can be. Of course this is hip-hop - I mean this is a genre where Paid In Full, Straight Outta Compton, 3 Feet High And Rising, Fear Of A Black Planet, The Low End Theory and Check Your Head came out within 5 years of each other. All y'all trying to pigeonhole it should be ashamed.

So what MBDTF might be pop-hip-hop or prog-hip-hop - is that shade? Does that mean it's somehow lesser? Hell no.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

imnotanotter — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:20:09 GMT

Author: imnotanotter

Posted: 07/30/2013 23:20

Lethal hit it on the head, really. While there's no denying the solid production, the album to me is a reflection of Kanye's superego which seems to have displaced some his passion for addressing social issues that were present in his older albums. Not that this is all bad, keeping in mind MBDTF's success... But, even though I enjoy most of the album, there are at least a handful of hip/hop albums out there that I think better deserve a top 100 spot.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

alelsupreme — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:35:47 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 07/30/2013 20:35

What Lethal said, it's not exactly some deep look at society. It's mostly Kanye going on about his favourite topic: him. Not that that's a bad thing, he generally does this pretty well.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

meccalecca — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:54:45 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:54

bananafish wrote:

What does "flashy" even mean? It seems to have a negative connotation the way people are using it. Is David Bowie's flashiness bad? Elton John in the 70s? Or are those acceptable because that was the time to be flashy?

Yeah, I honestly didn't mean it in a completely negative way. I think flashiness can be good and bad, and it's all in relation to how it compliments the music. As Lethal said, Kanye's production can cross that line into masturbatory bombast. And in many ways that's totally fitting to his persona. But I'm also a lover of subtlety. I think the greatest musicians know how to balance subtlety and bombast. My initial response was in relation to MBDTF being the greatest rap album instrumentally or something like that. So, my argument against that is that it's well-produced, but I personally think there's better. And much of that has to do with the lack of subtlety.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:34:18 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:34

bananafish wrote:

You don't have to think it's a masterpiece, but from your previous response it seemed like you were denying the existence of social commentary altogether.

It's there alright, but it's a shallow form of social commentary, a tired, one-dimensional, say-what-you-see form of social commentary. What are the "many political, racial and social issues" that this album apparently explores? Would you care to give some examples? And I don't mean oversimplified cliches such as "the system broken, the school is closed, the prison's open, we ain’t got nothing to lose, motherfucker we rolling", I mean something original, clever, inspired. He lightly touches on topics that he used to delve much deeper into earlier in his career with passion and insight, but on MBDTF only uses as another plastic cog in his masturbatory, macho bombast machine. Thematically the album follows one theme, that theme being "look what I can do". It's showy for the sake of being showy, similarly to Pink Floyd's The Wall, and it's managed to trick people into thinking it's genius. It isn't. However it is very good at what being what it is - a huge, oversized pop album that acts as a lush audio representation of one man's ego. I like it. It's not one of my favourite hip-hop albums (hell, it's not even one of my favourite three Kanye albums), but it's fine. However, I'm still utterly confused as to how he's managed to fool people into thinking shit like this:

bananafish wrote:

Thematically, the album explores many political, racial and social issues that are prevalent in the current human condition (the "21st century schizoid man"). Instrumentally, the album leaves nothing to be desired when it comes to a hip hop album. It's no "Supper's Ready," but I would hold it up against any other hip hop effort.

Just because a man is convinced that he can fly and proceeds to announce this to the world, it doesn't mean that he isn't just jumping up and down flapping his arms.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:23:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:23

swedenman wrote:

I never said flashiness was bad. I kind of like the flash on this album, personally.

Yeah, it's a great thing to me. My album chart is probably the flashiest on this site after looking it over with that in mind.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Einfinet — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:22:05 GMT

Author: Einfinet

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:22

I just feel like from start to finish, each song blends perfectly together to create an album that shows how far Kanye has progressed his sound since The College Dropout. While I think more hip-hop albums need to be in the top 100, MBDTF should also be in the top 100.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:18:31 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:18

I actually did a presentation for a 300-level college English course in which I examined the lyrics as one would a poem. Had a powerpoint, etc. Professor thought it was excellent.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:15:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:15

bananafish wrote:

I never said flashiness was bad. I kind of like the flash on this album, personally.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:14:26 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:14

meccalecca wrote:

If MBDTF is pudding, then there's also whipped cream, sprinkles, hot fudge, fish sticks, and a layer of gold on top.

I didn't even say it was bad. but dude's as flashy as it gets.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:12:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:12

itsit wrote:

The album's always struck me as being far more personal, rather than some big look at racism, social issues etc...

It does have a very personal, reflective side to it as well which even increases it's power even more to me.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:12:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 16:12

lethalnezzle wrote:

Why do you assume that because I don't think MBDTF is a masterpiece of social commentary that I must dislike Kanye's outward persona?

You don't have to think it's a masterpiece, but from your previous response it seemed like you were denying the existence of social commentary altogether.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

alelsupreme — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:53:09 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 07/30/2013 15:53

The album's always struck me as being far more personal, rather than some big look at racism, social issues etc...

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

meccalecca — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:12:48 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 07/30/2013 12:12

bananafish wrote:

One can argue that Kanye is a lot of flash based on his reputation, but you can't put that label on MBDTF. The proof is in the pudding.

If MBDTF is pudding, then there's also whipped cream, sprinkles, hot fudge, fish sticks, and a layer of gold on top.

I didn't even say it was bad. but dude's as flashy as it gets.

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:55:23 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 11:55

bananafish wrote:

I'm not fooled. I'm just able to look at the music independently. Sure Kanye is not an admirable human being. Neither is Roman Polanski. But I'm still going to enjoy his movies. Neither was Barry Bonds, but I still enjoyed watching him play. You have to separate the art from the politics.

Why do you assume that because I don't think MBDTF is a masterpiece of social commentary that I must dislike Kanye's outward persona?

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:51:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 11:51

lethalnezzle wrote:

How has Kanye fooled people into thinking shit like this?

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:26:17 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 11:26

bananafish wrote:

How so? Thematically, the album explores many political, racial and social issues that are prevalent in the current human condition (the "21st century schizoid man"). Instrumentally, the album leaves nothing to be desired when it comes to a hip hop album. It's no "Supper's Ready," but I would hold it up against any other hip hop effort.

How has Kanye fooled people into thinking shit like this?

Re: Kanye west joined the top 100 !!!!

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 01:07:25 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/30/2013 05:07

swedenman wrote:

How are we defining "flash" here? Seems to me that MBDTF is positively made of flash.