Best Ever Albums

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

drakonium — Fri, 8 Nov 2013 01:04:15 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 11/08/2013 06:04

😁

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:56:22 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/08/2013 03:56

The voters didn't please you this time, Beatles.

17-10

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Mercury — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 14:36:03 GMT

Author: Mercury

Posted: 11/06/2013 19:36

drakonium wrote:

I can't see the problem here either. It's not like Maxinquaye was some obscure unkown shit. As Happymeal said, it's acclaimed as hell. Also, I do think that if Please Please Me had not be recorded by that bad called Beatles, it would be much lower in the charts, not only on BEA, but everywhere. I'm not even saying it's overrated; that would be like giving my opinion about it. Regardless of my enjoyment of the album, I'm convinced a huge part of its popularity is because of who recorded it.

Its possibly undeserved popularity may precisely be the reason why it is now losing. It's not about people making a list of music they have heard and like, but it's about comparing two albums which are supposed to be known by every user participating to the poll. The fact that it's known by more people now has strictly no influence (at least in theory).

Now don't get me wrong : what I mean is nowhere near "omg if you like PPM you are brainwashed", and I don't question the love people have for it either. I'm just saying that charts and polls and fundamentally different ways of ranking music because in the first one, you can only list albums you know; in the second one, if you haven't heard everything, you can't participate. I don't think it's too risky to say that the proportion of people who haven't heard Max among people who have heard PPM is probably much higher than the proportion of people who haven't listened to PPM among people who have heard Max.

That's why I think popularity has a very minor role is polls, if it has any at all, and that's why this result doesn't really surprise me.

well fucking said!

It was so good I almost went into like a tourettes fit.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

drakonium — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 14:25:22 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 11/06/2013 19:25

I can't see the problem here either. It's not like Maxinquaye was some obscure unkown shit. As Happymeal said, it's acclaimed as hell. Also, I do think that if Please Please Me had not be recorded by that bad called Beatles, it would be much lower in the charts, not only on BEA, but everywhere. I'm not even saying it's overrated; that would be like giving my opinion about it. Regardless of my enjoyment of the album, I'm convinced a huge part of its popularity is because of who recorded it.

Its possibly undeserved popularity may precisely be the reason why it is now losing. It's not about people making a list of music they have heard and like, but it's about comparing two albums which are supposed to be known by every user participating to the poll. The fact that it's known by more people now has strictly no influence (at least in theory).

Now don't get me wrong : what I mean is nowhere near "omg if you like PPM you are brainwashed", and I don't question the love people have for it either. I'm just saying that charts and polls and fundamentally different ways of ranking music because in the first one, you can only list albums you know; in the second one, if you haven't heard everything, you can't participate. I don't think it's too risky to say that the proportion of people who haven't heard Max among people who have heard PPM is probably much higher than the proportion of people who haven't listened to PPM among people who have heard Max.

That's why I think popularity has a very minor role is polls, if it has any at all, and that's why this result doesn't really surprise me.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 14:19:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 19:19

Listmeister wrote:

I meant that Garage Band generally, and not necessarily Please Please Me, evolved into those other genres. Please Please Me evolved into Beatlemania.

Eat your heart out, Charles Darwin.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 13:06:57 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 18:06

I was worried when I saw the matchups for this round but then I realised that we're not voting for the artist.

"With the quick speed, I'll make your nose bleed"

Tricky, 1995

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Listmeister — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:43:08 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 11/06/2013 17:43

alelsupreme wrote:

getting pure smashed in this tourney, me.

I feel you, man. My nominations are 0-3.

Quote:

It's a pretty straightforward rock n' roll album, not sure where you're seeing links to any of those genres.

I called it Garage Band it's consistent with other Garage Band bands of the time (compare Louie Louie by the Kingsmen, the prototype Garage Band song). I meant that Garage Band generally, and not necessarily Please Please Me, evolved into those other genres. Please Please Me evolved into Beatlemania.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

alelsupreme — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:31:54 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 11/06/2013 17:31

getting pure smashed in this tourney, me.

Listmeister wrote:

Please Please Me is a great Garage Band album (that was the genre that evolved into Punk, Psychedelic, and Grunge).

It's a pretty straightforward rock n' roll album, not sure where you're seeing links to any of those genres.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:21:57 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 17:21

Listmeister wrote:

Please Please Me is a great Garage Band album (that was the genre that evolved into Punk, Psychedelic, and Grunge).

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

meccalecca — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:01:06 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/06/2013 17:01

MrFrogger wrote:

It's a point in that it seems that some people are surprised that Tricky's winning, personally I don't see what's so surprising, The Beatles may be much more popular, but it doesn't seem that outlandish that some(me included) would hear the Tricky album and then choose that they like it better than Please Please Me.

Well, I think this debate was more based around whether or not Tricky was the underdog. But I'm still surprised by the results either way. It's hard to sway voters away from the familiar, and I think these are pretty evenly matched in quality.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

MrFrogger — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:57:31 GMT

Author: MrFrogger

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:57

meccalecca wrote:

I don't think that was ever a point. but in the context of a popularity contest, usually the more well known option wins

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

meccalecca — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:55:09 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:55

MrFrogger wrote:

Since when does the fact that an album is more well known, mean that it's better?

I don't think that was ever a point. but in the context of a popularity contest, usually the more well known option wins.

Happymeal wrote:

The typical opinion (shown by not only this poll, but by RYM and our rating systems, referring to the number/100 system, as well as critical acclaim, which perhaps your point might be right regarding that) has shown Tricky's debut being more liked than Beatles' debut.

I think when it comes to average score,Tricky will come out on top because there will be far less haters. and there's far less people scoring it. On the other hand, pretty much everyone has an opinion about the Beatles, and because they're popular a lot of people are gonna lash out against it. Popularity breeds hatred

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:46:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:46

meccalecca wrote:

I get what you're trying to say, but even in the context of BEA, Please Please Me is the more popular album. It's on 175 charts, ranking #372 overall. Meanwhile Maxinquaye is on 86 charts, ranked 706 overall.

I'm also not quite sure about Maxinquaye being more acclaimed by critics than Please Please Me. Please Please Me is much more likely to make big critics' lists than Maxinquaye. I'm not saying it's totally justified, but it is what it is.

And while there are many users here well versed in music, there's an even greater number who's musical vocabulary is limited to popular music. Just look at the overall chart. it's pretty clear.

Yeah, I guess you have a point. I just think that being popular (in this case) has really nothing to do with it being better. The typical opinion (shown by not only this poll, but by RYM and our rating systems, referring to the number/100 system, as well as critical acclaim, which perhaps your point might be right regarding that) has shown Tricky's debut being more liked than Beatles' debut. Maybe that's why I would never consider this an upset; because, most of the time, you find that people typically like one album over the other. The Beatles is more popular, but most people on these forums have an attitude that conveys the idea that popularity does not affect their feeling about the music.

On those grounds, I can't see this being an upset. Not because the Beatles isn't a popular as fuck band, but because I typically see people like Tricky's album more than the one it is up against.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

MrFrogger — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:44:42 GMT

Author: MrFrogger

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:44

Since when does the fact that an album is more well known, mean that it's better?

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Listmeister — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:42:19 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:42

Tricky may be well known to Hip-Hop fans, but the Beatles are known by absolutely everybody. I'd never heard of Tricky[footnote] or Maxinquaye before this tournament. How many of us here read magazine critics? The only critics I read are you guys here at BEA, and I haven't seen a mention of Tricky in four months of reading the forums on this website, meanwhile, the Beatles (with the occasional mention of Please Please Me itself) come up all the time. No one can know about everybody, which is why tournaments like this are so much fun, because you learn about artists you never heard of before. But even at BEA, some artists are better-known than others.

I'm glad I got the chance to hear Maxinquaye, don't get me wrong, it was a good album. I definitely enjoyed it better than a lot of the first-round-winning albums in the tournament.

Please Please Me is a great Garage Band album (that was the genre that evolved into Punk, Psychedelic, and Grunge). I know it looks like a collection of songs, but even Please Please Me had its theme, in that the Beatles were trying to record their stage show from the Cavern in Liverpool, which gives it as much unity as any other Beatles album.

[footnote] In research for this contest, I discovered that I actually had heard of the guy. He was in The Fifth Element, one of my favorite movies of all time. He gets blown up by Gary Oldman when he fails to disguise himself as Bruce Willis. But I had no idea that he was a famous Hip-Hop star.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:38:08 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:38

I understand what Happymeal is trying to say, and I think there's a valid point in there somewhere desperately attempting to get out, but I have to respectfully disagree with him. Of course it's a big upset if Maxinquaye beats Please Please Me (which looks like happening now). I virtually never hear Tricky mentioned on the forums, even compared to his trip-hop contemporaries, whilst The Beatles are pretty ubiquitous. Even one of their least renowned albums is favourite going into most matches, and especially so against something by a rapper from Bristol who can neither really sing nor rap (that isn't a slight against Tricky; his music is actually dope).

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

meccalecca — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:26:49 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:26

Happymeal wrote:

My question was rhetorical, but I think you understand my point. Anyways, the more well known argument makes no sense. Perhaps it is well known, that is true, but this is a website for people who are typically versed enough in music to know the big players in many genres. When Tricky's debut is more acclaimed by critics (check acclaimed music, it's true) than the beatles' debut, don't you believe a website for people who love music and are typically versed in music (especially when the core members of the forums know music better than most everyone else on the website), don't you believe that the typical opinion would coincide with the acclaim? It's a matter of fact that Tricky's debut is more acclaimed than The Beatles'. Sure, if this were a worldwide survey where everyone could vote, you'd be right. This would be an upset, but, in this context, it's not.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:12:58 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:12

meccalecca wrote:

Sure it's overshadowed by their later work, but Please Please Me is wayyyy more well known and popular than Maxinquaye. This is fact.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

Anonymous — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:04:25 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:04

Listmeister wrote:

Tricky doesn't suck, but they are not in the same league as the Beatles, they're not in the same weight class, I don't think they're even playing the same sport. I just can't understand how they could possibly be about to pull off the biggest upset of the tournament.

To be fair, the Beatles' debut isn't in the same weight class as their later work. Their debut was released at a time when rock albums were still just collections of songs. That said, even if I was a big fan of Tricky, it would be hard to pick against the Beatles.

Re: BDAT Rd. 1 - Maxinquaye vs. Please Please Me (CLOSED)

meccalecca — Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:03:30 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/06/2013 16:03

Happymeal wrote:

I think the point was that while tricky might not be a household name, neither is the Beatles' debut. When was the last time you actually heard anyone refer to it as being their best or anywhere near any of the other work they have done.

In this thread:

lethalnezzle wrote:

Maxinquaye is dope, but Please Please Me is my favourite Beatles album and one of my favourite albums in general. A fairly simple choice for me.

Sure it's overshadowed by their later work, but Please Please Me is wayyyy more well known and popular than Maxinquaye. This is fact.