Best Ever Albums

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

bladeloris — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 18:26:04 GMT

Author: bladeloris

Posted: 02/15/2014 23:26

i like about 10 jay z songs although i never need to hear one ever again, on the real he is one of the most over hyped rappers ever, if there were 5 tools he would be real good at 1 of them and not good at the other 4 and the production of most of his shit is bad

nearly every part of isengrind's ambient side is superb

f snow buildings wanted a contract they would have one

lol at people voting for jay z cuz of guest

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

bongritsu — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:42 GMT

Author: bongritsu

Posted: 02/13/2014 04:28

Jay zed or jay zee?

Defago wrote:

a few users he brought from RYM who echoed his every opinion everywhere he went

I dont remember this

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:44:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/12/2014 03:44

Defago wrote:

a few users he brought from RYM who echoed his every opinion everywhere he went

A few of them? I only know of Seth/LAplunderphonixx.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Defago — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:40:25 GMT

Author: Defago

Posted: 02/12/2014 03:40

a few users he brought from RYM who echoed his every opinion everywhere he went

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

bongritsu — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:16:14 GMT

Author: bongritsu

Posted: 02/12/2014 02:16

Defago wrote:

Does this mean his minions are leaving the site too?

who are his minions?

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Defago — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:50:42 GMT

Author: Defago

Posted: 02/12/2014 00:50

Does this mean his minions are leaving the site too?

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:45:54 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 18:45

drakonium wrote:

I don't care anymore about The Poe, I just wanted to quote this. JMan has officially become a pleasant presence for me.

Yeah for sure. I like to rib him, but in the same way I rib my little sister.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

drakonium — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:40:34 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 02/11/2014 18:40

swedenman wrote:

JMan has made an attempt to improve his conduct (and done an admirable job, particularly these last few months; props to you, JMan)

I don't care anymore about The Poe, I just wanted to quote this. JMan has officially become a pleasant presence for me.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:42:09 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 17:42

I'm afraid this can't go on. Gone far too offtopic and into a very ugly fight.

Thread locked.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:35:42 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 17:35

The Poe, I'm not sure I've ever been more utterly repulsed by a single post on any forum I've been on in my life. Even Santiago's anti-BEA crusade at least had the excuse of being the product of an unfortunately misconceived notion of what best-of lists represent. What you've posted here is arrogant, presumptuous, condescending, and self-righteous, all in the worst ways possible. You've blatantly insulted an entire community of very well-meaning and, for the most part, good-natured people, and all on the basis that they can't conform to your rather ironically narrow mindset of how music should be consumed. You sound like JMan back in his The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here days with your incessant, immature, pathetic whining about how nobody takes your recommendations seriously, except even JMan has made an attempt to improve his conduct (and done an admirable job, particularly these last few months; props to you, JMan). You complain about having to repeat yourself, yet you make no effort to register this community's constant reassurance that we respect your musical tastes and that the primary reason that not everybody on this site has heard every single album on your charts is that there are only 24 hours in a day. The people on this site don't love music any less than you do. I've only heard a little over 600 albums, 299 of which are in this site's overall top 300, and which span maybe 20 countries among them. Does that mean I love or appreciate music any less than nezzle, or Norman, or you, or any of the other very well-listened users on this site? Of course it doesn't. I spend as much time as I can afford exposing myself to new albums, genres, cultures, etc., expanding my horizons. And I'm not the only user who does that. If you came out of your smug little anti-mainstream shell for 10 seconds you'd see a community of users who are as passionate about discovery as you are. The only difference is that they don't view it as a competition. I don't see people who have only listened to 100 or 200 albums their entire lives as lesser. You do, and it fucking disgusts me. Yes, the English-speaking world is what this site generally knows best. Is that ideal? Of course not, but forcing diversity onto the charts just for the sake of diversity is not any better. Everyone has their own musical journey. It's different for everyone, and it's rarely predictable. For example, I grew up with classic rock. Next I discovered grunge. After that I had a girlfriend who really liked Eminem and I started exploring hip-hop. Next I discovered BEA and started getting into artists like My Bloody Valentine, The Stone Roses, Arcade Fire, Neutral Milk Hotel, Pixies, and Joy Division, which are all pretty mainstream artists, but I had never listened to them before joining this site. Sometimes I'll pick a random year and spend a week listening to albums from that year. Sometimes I'll do the same with countries. Lately I've been rediscovering a lot of classical music, a genre I hadn't really spent any significant time exploring since high school. Maybe next I'll go check out Necharsian's chart for some metal recs, or maybe I'll find an obscure video game soundtrack to obsess over for a few months. Who knows? I don't plan these things ahead of time. Hell, I probably would've started working my way through your chart eventually, but after witnessing your horrid conduct in this thread and elsewhere on this site I can't say your opinions hold any value for me. Kindly fuck off.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Norman Bates — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:35:20 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 02/11/2014 16:35

The Poe wrote:

There was a time I had hoped to influence this place.

That's probably the problem.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:55:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 15:55

The lack of self-awareness from The Poe in this thread is startling. As is the cuntishness.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:08:00 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 15:08

The Poe wrote:

That's because I started responding to the trolls.

I understand that to be seen in a positive light by those of average perception, one most only focus on the positive. "Average perception", huh? You see, most people don't know how to look past the literal words and see where one is coming from. I have a nasty habit of expecting people to, because I somehow expect people to be like me, but unfortunately, people need things made obvious. Even worse, people will believe what they are told by other people. My reputation here is tarnished, and I suppose it's been fun getting there.

There was a time I had hoped to influence this place. It's smaller than RYM, maybe I can help this community build into a more diverse one... a more truistic version of the best albums ever. But people don't like things that are different. This website was founded based on white, anglo publications that support only a narrow branch of music. What is the result? Users that that care mostly about a narrow branch of the white and anglo, to the exception of a few black anglo artists here and there, as hip hop has made its way into the mainstream of the anglo world.

People see their world as the whole world, even though the anglos make up only around 5% I think.

When I came here, I was impressed just by the fact of so many people having listened to thousands of albums. I didn't think I could ever reach that, but I did. I adapt quickly to things. But the more I stayed here, the more narrow I noticed things to be.

I wanted to help expand. I work hard on lists. I'm as obsessive as a warcraft addict. But after all that work, nobody bothers to listen to anything. Sometimes they'll say "oh this is cool I'll listen sometime". Right. Then in "what are you listening to?", it's another white anglo rock album from some white anglo publication. Sometimes people will say they don't care where their music comes from or what kind. Sounds noble, right? I wish it were true. Just look at their ratings or list to find out it isn't. Maybe some will say "well this music is more popular!". No, it's popular relative to you. You've got the internet. It's not like you have to travel. Okay, so how about "this is the music more shared over the internet!". Japan's music market is three times larger than the UK. Japan is more well connected than the UK all around. Yet most charts... 30 British albums and... no Japanese. Huh. So what excuse is left? I guess you just like that white shit.... like everyone else. What a unique snowflake. And what about Germany and France? Their white people, right? And they each have a music market equivalent to the UK. Let's see... 30 British albums and... 2 albums from France. Looks like you really did your research, glad your chart isn't rated hig... oh, it's a top 20 rated chart. I guess music has to speak english in order to be good.

But still, despite all the things I notice, I chose to keep to myself for quite some time. I remain modest and hope that it grows with time. It doesn't. I decide that maybe the image certain people were trying to force on me was getting in the way... that somehow my music was challenging, or that I only listen to certain styles. But the more I try to debunk those myths, the more accusations are made my way. I even try connecting with people personally, perhaps sharing an album or several. They'll act enthusiastic at first, but they disappear pretty fast.

If people wish to stay in a world where what's fed to them is all that's there to discover, then so be it. I may keep my lists here for now, but this community gets harder and harder to support. Occasionally a decent member joins, but they're usually turned off quickly by the closed minded nature of this site. BEA wants things a certain way, they want to keep the world small, and so be it. Of course, that's not to say everyone here is completely closed. There are a few members who are more open. There may even be a handful that go out of their way to try something different from time to time. But perhaps there are more open minded places to go. Maybe I'll make my own site one day. A community that attracts people who matter.

I think I've said my say now. The following posts will likely include word-twisting and flat-out trolling. Yet, I'm the bad guy, obviously.

Though perhaps my biggest mistake goes back to that first paragraph... about positivity. I'll almost always point out when I dislike something. I am honest that way. I guess people don't like honesty. At least, not on this website. The worst policy, eh? I've refrained about being honest about the people here, until this thread. But apparently *I* have fallen. Are you blind to the self-righteous acts of some of the members of this thread? Jeeze, just look at some of lethalnezzle's posts... Saoirse's even more so. Spacetiger as usual. SPD is getting on with it too now. But when I do it, it's like "you're pretentious!". The irony. I am pretentious, yes, and so are they. But, yea, I'm the bad guy.

So anyway, a learning experience, or however that cliche goes. Moving on.

And, exceptional is the exception. ;)

Okay I said I wouldn't come back here but this is the worst kind of trolling because you're accusing specific members of being the self-righteous trolls, while every single paragraph in that line is just reeking of condescending self-righteousness in bright capital letters. Really, we need to be "molded" by your alternative taste? How about we share our music that is hitherto unheard, hope people catch on but also RESPECT OPINIONS THAT MAY BE POSTIVE TO SOMETHING YOU REALLY DON'T LIKE AND PERHAPS NOT AS POSITIVE TO THINGS YOU LOVE. All I see is a continued isolation, a mix of frustration and indignant superiority when we perhaps give a less-than-stellar review of something you put across. Again, while this post was meant to come across as positive, it came across as just another complete whiff of a relentlessly passive-agressive superiority complex.

It shouldn't be how or if we're molded by your great insight, it's if people do pick up some good reccomendations from what you're putting forth, and that's up to them and they can't be faulted if they don't bow down instantly. The thing is many albums that previously were not on the site that you have brought to attention have been praised and valued by other members on BEA, and Im sure you noticed that. However, not every new album you put forth is going to get a gushing response from everybody, and it's not us being un-elightened or too shelled up in our comfort zone, it's just a matter of taste. We're all different here, but BEA is something that we can all add to but not something that should be tried to fitted solely into your ideal. The many remarks about BEA in particular here I just found awful.

And yes, I behaved terribly here (Im not going to speak for others), a trolling response to things I found geniunely appalling said by you earlier in this thread, but all I see is a response that somehow your "honesty" (like we're somehow curmudgeon little liars) is making you some sort of martyr around here. That's not true. We all have different ways of looking at music, just like we all have different ways of communicating to one another. BEA doesn't have to follow one suit and doesn't need to change to fit one person's idea of how it should be, it needs input from everybody to work as well as it does, and yes it is a wonderful place that like all internet creations isn't perfect but that doesn't mean it isn't one of the best of it's kind. It takes everybody to make it work, and yes, every different musical perspective to make it as special as it is (and BEA is actually quite diverse for a relatively small music site, and yes you have added to that tremondously and that should be praised by all means. But same goes with anybody, it doesn't deserve a holy worship.)

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:05:10 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 02/11/2014 15:05

Christ Poe, can you see your house from that high horse you're on?

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

meccalecca — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:57:15 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 02/11/2014 14:57

The Poe wrote:

I think I've said my say now. The following posts will likely include word-twisting and flat-out trolling. Yet, I'm the bad guy, obviously.

Woah there Mr High and Mighty. I actually do listen to quite a few albums you place on your charts and was planning on listening to more. But I take time with records. I don't try to eat the entire buffet in one sitting. I pick at it like a small bird.

People listen to music they can identify with. Lyrics and vocals really matter to a lot of people, and so language barriers are just that, barriers.

We listen to music mainly for enjoyment. It's not a raise. I don't care if I consume more than you. Seeing every painting in the world doesn't make someone any more knowledgeable of art if they're only taking glimpses. Spend time with a painting, thing about it, walk away, come back, and maybe then it will begin to make more sense.

My favorite record so far this year is Benji. It's not groundbreaking musically. Songwriters like Leonard Cohen and Neil Young have not only played music similarly but they've also pondered mortality. But Mark Kozelek's lyrics hit on a profoundly personal level that I can relate to far more than pretty much anything you can offer.

I'm a white anglo saxon male. I identify with white anglo saxon males.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:35:19 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 14:35

drakonium wrote:

I had written that at the time of the Best Ever User tourney. Lol, funny how things have changed in the course of a year. Hairymarx now looks like Jesus next to The Poe.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Hayden — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:17:44 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 02/11/2014 14:17

Ok, I'm not here to get involved in the other crap going on in this thread (albeit as entertaining it is).

Voting for Jay-Z.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

meccalecca — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:16:48 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 02/11/2014 13:16

The Poe wrote:

If it were me, I'd release digitally. If there was enough demand, then I'd release physically.

Many do this. but the problem with that is that in this day and age, if you release digital first, people are less likely to buy a physical since they already have the digital. I'm sure if everyone who actually considers themselves NSB fans actually bought physical copies they'd be able to sell way more than 500.

The Poe wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the media thing. Information seems to spread pretty freely on the internet so far (depending on where you live I suppose..). I'd imagine the concept of the media is changing. Sometimes lo fi youtube videos can get massive popularity out of chance. Like say, Nyan Cat. Is it possible that as more people become acquainted with the internet, that media attention could some day become irrelevant?

Have you ever played telephone. information spreads, and then changes. Popular artists need someone to do the work of keeping this clear. Also they have huge lists of contacts. Arrange interviews, photo shoots, etc. Gangam style spreads like wildfire, but most things do not. because the world has more than enough music

The Poe wrote:

But popular music youtube videos tend to have sub-par music, though. So maybe that's beside any point. Or is it? But currently, t's a shame that promotion is the key behind popularity up to this point. And I think it circles back to Jay Z. If the artistic quality and popularity were actually correlated, then popular music would look much different... but maybe that would take the fun out of it all.

Promotion isn't the key. plenty of things become popular without it, because there's enough of a demand. it's all about the demand. A lot of people simply would rather listen to a mindless pop song or melodramatic cover of a song they already know than a weird record in another language.

Bollywood is insanely popular in India, and pretty much nowhere else, because other cultures do not connect with it.

Jay Z connects with more people than Isengrind. They both started unknown. Once Jay Z got big, it's much easier for him to remain in the spotlight.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:15:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/11/2014 13:15

SquishypuffDave wrote:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Re: BSAT Round #1: Jay-Z vs Isengrind

SquishypuffDave — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:09:02 GMT

Author: SquishypuffDave

Posted: 02/11/2014 13:09

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.