Best Ever Albums

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Anonymous — Wed, 14 May 2014 06:06:15 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/14/2014 10:06

Agree with a lot that's been said, I think essentially putting Carly into a lower class essentially because of her stardom and the style of music she plays (she shares a style with like-minded artists- not the same sound), somehow she's viewed as lesser (or not-legitimate) artist or that we're not being honest (ironic) when someone says they like her and maybe generally prefer her over a more critically lauded artist like Smith. That's a terrible way to approach music. Every artist should be listened to with an open mind, and viewed solely through the art (yes it is art) they produce rather than what they're often classified as, and the enjoyment or not of the music shouldn't simply be a reflection on how you want to be viewed as a music fan/connessieur. It's not to say that people who dislike Carly or another pop artist are blanket-hating the genre- there are pop artists I like (Ariana Grande, Kacey Musgraves, Kesha, Ellie Goulding, Sky Ferreira) and others I geniunely don't care for (Christina Aguilera, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez etc etc)- many have listened to "Kiss" or Carly's singles in all earnesty and it just wasn't their bag, completely understandable. It all just turns into a bit of problem when one artist is deemed less legitimate, or a lesser class of performers, moreso for the style they produce or the fatigue of their music's ubiquity than the specific music in question. I think it just sets a really bad example for what music is deemed acceptable for a music fan to listen to and that people's enjoyment or non-enjoyment of a certain type of music can be often put into question if they're being "ironic" or not, and that something's off when they don't share a popular niche opinion.

That being said, taking both of these artists' input into review, Smith easily got my vote, scout's honor

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

HigherThanTheSun — Tue, 13 May 2014 18:43:54 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 05/13/2014 22:43

Jhereko wrote:

This is the same deal. Trying to see a group of individuals as a single thinking entity - which they obviously aren't. Once again the people who voted for Call Me Maybe as best pop song are not the same people who put Swift there ( I certainly really like both tracks). Same thing this year - Miley was nominated for Best Pop Song and Worst Song of the year. You really think it's the same people putting her in both?

Pop is crazy divisive on this site (although it's certainly much more accepted than when I first started here so thanks y'all) so you're going to see it appear in both best and worst lists - though usually (of course there are exceptions as people don't have to like every artist in a genre) it's not from the same users.

Yeah, fair point.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Anonymous — Tue, 13 May 2014 16:44:38 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/13/2014 20:44

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

BEA as a community voted Call Me Maybe best pop song last year's BEAMAs though, at the same time voting We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together by Taylor Swift one of the top 5 worst, even though they sound very very similar.

Honestly it does feel like some, a very select few, pop artists get a free pass whilst the majority are basically dismissed completely or on evidence of BEAMAs actively disliked, but I've never been able to work out what it is that decides this, seems a very fine line between pop artists being loved or hated here.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 13 May 2014 16:30:46 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/13/2014 20:30

Jhereko wrote:

I think the mistake would be in trying to look at BEA generally. The people who like CRJ, though they certainly might not respect Gomez's music do not dismiss it. Admittedly I'm saying this from my point of view specifically (what else can I do?) but I certainly don't single out CRJ at all. I think Jepsen, Beyonce, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Spears, Aguilera, Perry, GaGa etc have all released at the very least decent complete albums that each have their own individual sound - you just have to listen with an unbiased ear.

You say you don't remotely blanket-hate pop music and yet you made the statement "it sounds exactly the same as the rest of the generic pop we play" which is exactly the sort of thing someone who dislikes or hasn't tried much pop would say. Kiss sounds nothing like Loud which sounds nothing like 4 which sounds nothing like ArtPop. People could say, and have said, that Smith is generic singer-songwriter folk and he's indistinguishable from others of his ilk - and that would mean as much as saying all pop sounds the same.

Back to the original issue - you're trying to look at all BEA's opinions collectively but the people who dismiss Gomez aren't the same people who endorse Carly. In fact I'm not sure I've even seen an anti Gomez comment on here? I don't personally like Gomez' music and I don't think Stars Dance is anywhere near as good as Kiss but I don't believe that makes me a hypocrite. In fact it's as legitimate as someone saying they don't like Muse but they like Radiohead. The hypocrite would be someone saying all pop sounds the same based on only hearing a single here and there from each artist. If I only heard one or two Elliott Smith songs and one or two Nick Drake songs and said they sound exactly the same it would be just as valid but also just as silly as saying it about pop artists. It would be the definition of ignorance.

You're right, you make some good points.

I made some assumptions rather than assertions based on observed fact. I assumed that the BEA community would react negatively to the mentioned artists without actually having seen that (at least, not that I recall).

You're also correct in saying that my statement that her music is "generic pop" is in the wrong. I truly don't blanket-hate pop music, I do try to give it a fair shake, which I did with CRJ, and because I don't like it, I referred to it in a negative way, and that was wrong. I, personally, find CRJ's music to be generic, however that is my opinion on it, rather than the "fact" that I seemed to state it as, and you are correct in saying that CRJ's music is, in the literal sense, distinguishable from other pop artist's music. So I apologize for that.

Quote:

I do find this to be interesting however.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Necharsian — Tue, 13 May 2014 16:25:54 GMT

Author: Necharsian

Posted: 05/13/2014 20:25

Should've known an argument against liking CRJ would pop up in a poll in which she is getting decimated 29-9. "But why doesnt everyone agree with me!!!!"

I've made my case in favor of Carly Rae quite a bit already on this site (probably more than i need to), so I wont go into giant detail here about why I think she deserves 9 god damn votes out of 37. But I can pretty easily tell the difference between her and Selena Gomez and Im not sure how you could mistake the two unless you just not trying to tell the difference. This isnt really a terrible thing (not caring about artists) but I mean, to Jhereko's point, if i came here saying Elliott Smith sounds exactly like Sufjan Stevens or Jeff Buckley people would throw a fit. Selena's sound is more like The Wanted or Britney Spears anyways. Not really in the same ballpark as Carly.

RockyRaccoon wrote:

There is nothing unique about Jepsen, yet she is singled out as this special pop artist while the rest of her contemporaries (who sound very similar to her) are summarily dismissed.

The people who condemn her contemporaries are not the same people that like CRJ. Once again, she has 9 votes. It's really a shame people are missing the forest for the trees here by turning this poll into "wow Elliott Smith is crushing CRJ but let's argue why her getting 24% of the votes is unfair and terrible"

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

creator — Tue, 13 May 2014 16:13:41 GMT

Author: creator

Posted: 05/13/2014 20:13

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

I agree! I don't understand the split.

I'm a sucker for great pop singles, such as "Call Me Maybe," but on the whole the albums rarely click with me.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

alelsupreme — Tue, 13 May 2014 16:08:52 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 05/13/2014 20:08

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

but I've never been able to work out what it is that decides this, seems a very fine line between pop artists being loved or hated here.

patriarchy obvs.

Tbh I dislike much of the stuff I've heard from other "huge" pop artists. Why is it then, that I like Carly? I dunno. I think she has a more pleasant voice than many, and the producers she works with are really good (even if they use the same goddamn drumbeat for EVERY SINGLE SONG ON KISS).

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

HigherThanTheSun — Tue, 13 May 2014 16:04:37 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 05/13/2014 20:04

BEA as a community voted Call Me Maybe best pop song last year's BEAMAs though, at the same time voting We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together by Taylor Swift one of the top 5 worst, even though they sound very very similar.

Honestly it does feel like some, a very select few, pop artists get a free pass whilst the majority are basically dismissed completely or on evidence of BEAMAs actively disliked, but I've never been able to work out what it is that decides this, seems a very fine line between pop artists being loved or hated here.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Anonymous — Tue, 13 May 2014 15:23:28 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/13/2014 19:23

I think the mistake would be in trying to look at BEA generally. The people who like CRJ, though they certainly might not respect Gomez's music do not dismiss it. Admittedly I'm saying this from my point of view specifically (what else can I do?) but I certainly don't single out CRJ at all. I think Jepsen, Beyonce, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Spears, Aguilera, Perry, GaGa etc have all released at the very least decent complete albums that each have their own individual sound - you just have to listen with an unbiased ear.

You say you don't remotely blanket-hate pop music and yet you made the statement "it sounds exactly the same as the rest of the generic pop we play" which is exactly the sort of thing someone who dislikes or hasn't tried much pop would say. Kiss sounds nothing like Loud which sounds nothing like 4 which sounds nothing like ArtPop. People could say, and have said, that Smith is generic singer-songwriter folk and he's indistinguishable from others of his ilk - and that would mean as much as saying all pop sounds the same.

Back to the original issue - you're trying to look at all BEA's opinions collectively but the people who dismiss Gomez aren't the same people who endorse Carly. In fact I'm not sure I've even seen an anti Gomez comment on here? I don't personally like Gomez' music and I don't think Stars Dance is anywhere near as good as Kiss but I don't believe that makes me a hypocrite. In fact it's as legitimate as someone saying they don't like Muse but they like Radiohead. The hypocrite would be someone saying all pop sounds the same based on only hearing a single here and there from each artist. If I only heard one or two Elliott Smith songs and one or two Nick Drake songs and said they sound exactly the same it would be just as valid but also just as silly as saying it about pop artists. It would be the definition of ignorance.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 13 May 2014 14:40:26 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/13/2014 18:40

Kool Keith Sweat wrote:

I find that people who blanket-hate pop, or any entire genre, generally have a problem with the image of listening to it rather than the sounds themselves. So take a look at yourself

I certainly don't blanket-hate pop music, not even remotely (e.g. I've been and remained a fan of 3OH!3). I firmly believe it's wrong to completely hate any genre, every form of music deserves a fair chance. Yea, CRJ isn't my thing, but that doesn't mean I believe others are "wrong" for liking her, there is no "wrong" or "right" in music.

My thing was what I perceived to be a contradiction in a general perception of a type of music. I, personally, see little to no difference between CRJ and the people I mentioned. Generally (and I emphasize on generally) it appears that BEA reacts fairly unfavorably to the people that I mentioned, thus by that logic, BEA should react unfavorably to CRJ, however it appears that they do not.

Now, perhaps there's a flaw in my premise (e.g. BEA actually does not generally react unfavorably to these artists, CRJ is somehow distinctly different from these artists, etc.), and if so then that would explain it, but if there isn't, then this appears to be a logical contradiction, which is what is confusing me.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Norman Bates — Tue, 13 May 2014 12:07:50 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 05/13/2014 16:07

Smith.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

alelsupreme — Tue, 13 May 2014 11:53:05 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 05/13/2014 15:53

WindowAbove wrote:

Jepsen voters are being ironic, right?

There are many things I do ironically on BEA (too many, really).

Endorsing Carly most certainly isn't one of them.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Anonymous — Tue, 13 May 2014 11:10:34 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/13/2014 15:10

@Rocky.

I don't think it's Carly Rae Jepsen herself that brings this "special" air to her. While you're completely correct, just take my original attitude of voting for her and add it to a larger scale. With everyone loving her music so much, it's pretty obvious to see how she can be this particular time's definitive fun artist. You're probably right about the contradictions of people, but oh well. I'll admit that I've enjoyed the sound of disney/Nick artists though because they have a breathe of fresh air to them as well.

Of course, I doubt she takes herself all that seriously and knows her music is just a barrel of good fun. However, I really dislike the phrasing "not a legitimate artist".

EDIT: I think it's also important to note that most people I know personally don't actually listen to the albums she has on a constant basis.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Anonymous — Tue, 13 May 2014 11:09:24 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/13/2014 15:09

RockyRaccoon wrote:

stuff

CRJ had a decent album, listenable through and through, whereas most pop radio doesn't and doesn't have much to listen to outside the singles (which may not even be bearable themselves). I think most people will agree that sex in pop sells, and the affectation in CRJ's voice is sexy, and consistently sexy throughout Kiss, whereas even Miley on Bangerz, or Selena Gomez, et al. don't have that yet. Lastly, Kiss was marketed to me; I don't listen to radio so I don't get much exposure to pop, but occasionally I'll see an advert, targeting me, which is trying to get me to listen to Kiss, or Art Pop, or Pure Heroine, etc., a full pop album, somehow advertised to someone who goes nowhere near radio, so I listen to it (and it's usually decent, because why else would you have the gumption to advertise an entire pop album?).

My view on pop is that it is a particular genre of music (which happens to be singles-based) that is marketed to the masses, whereas most music pop-snobs consider legitimate are albums-based and marketed to niche groups, like the p4k crowd, or theQuietus crowd, etc. Outside of the image of consumerism, the main criticism of it I see is that it's formulaic. But when I think of formulaic albums, two always pop into my head before any traditional pop album: Loveless (opens with the overdub of a prerecorded guitar hook, blah blah we can't hear what you're saying over normal chords played loudly with reverb and distortion, guitar hook again, blah blah, we might double up on that guitar hook towards the end (hell, maybe we'll add on organ to this track)) and If You're Feeling Sinister (I got my three-chord track, my fruity lyrics, and when I hit the third verse that accompaniment from a random instrument is going to come in to sound hopefully sad), but they're still good. IDK, I'm rambling, but I find that people who blanket-hate pop, or any entire genre, generally have a problem with the image of listening to it rather than the sounds themselves. So take a look at yourself

EDIT: All that being said, Smith was an obvious choice here (but would;ve lost my vote to Madonna)

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 13 May 2014 10:12:59 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/13/2014 14:12

meccalecca wrote:

It's not just BEA. I know some major music critics who love her. I think she's good care free pop music especially after the standards of pop music were dragged so low for a while. But to vote for her over Elliott seems silly. Every if you won't like Elliott, it's hard to overlook his impact.

I just don't see what makes her special. What makes her any different than, say, Kelly Clarkson? Or Selena Gomez? Or for that matter, any of the Disney/Nickelodeon-produced pop singers?

We play a lot of Jepsen where I work, and it sounds exactly the same as the rest of the generic pop we play the rest of the day. There is nothing unique about Jepsen, yet she is singled out as this special pop artist while the rest of her contemporaries (who sound very similar to her) are summarily dismissed.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with her, I personally don't like her music, but that's me, others like her, that's fine, but I just genuinely don't understand what makes her so different from other pop artists of today that she gets this kind of recognition.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

meccalecca — Tue, 13 May 2014 10:05:27 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 05/13/2014 14:05

RockyRaccoon wrote:

BEA's (somewhat) collective acceptance of Carly Rae Jepsen as a legitimate artist is something that I will never understand.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

meccalecca — Tue, 13 May 2014 10:02:28 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 05/13/2014 14:02

AlternativeBase wrote:

Awesome! I'll get on those. Thank you mecca!

Of course. I think out of all of Elliott's albums you'd likely enjoy XO or Figure 8 best. XO has been my favorite for a long long time.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 13 May 2014 09:56:06 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/13/2014 13:56

BEA's (somewhat) collective acceptance of Carly Rae Jepsen as a legitimate artist is something that I will never understand.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

Anonymous — Tue, 13 May 2014 09:41:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/13/2014 13:41

meccalecca wrote:

I'd say Figure 8 since it's probably the poppiest, or possibly XO. On the first 2 albums, there's a feeling of fragility. And then starting with Either/Or he started getting into more Beatles-esque arrangements which often made him sound happier, even when he was falling apart.

Awesome! I'll get on those. Thank you mecca!

Re: BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen

meccalecca — Tue, 13 May 2014 09:35:25 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 05/13/2014 13:35

AlternativeBase wrote:

What would you say is his least depressive album?