Best Ever Albums

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 2 Oct 2014 17:42:19 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 10/02/2014 21:42

David Gilmour wins

22-12

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

WindowAbove — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:09:50 GMT

Author: WindowAbove

Posted: 09/29/2014 11:09

Love Elliott but going with David here

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

meccalecca — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:17:32 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/29/2014 00:17

Happymeal wrote:

That was a portion of the quote, but the main idea was "If Mr. Smith was some no - name street guitarist, would we even be having a discussion about his merit in this tournament?"

I think I understand what you're trying to say: Elliott is not a mind blowing guitar player and his nomination stems more from his popularity are an artist than as a guitar player. That's pretty true. I'm a piss poor judge of it all. He wrote great melodies and used unique tunings that make him impressive in his own right.

What I'm saying is, a no name street artist with the chops of Django or Hendrix wouldn't make this tournament either, because they're a no name artist that no one would have heard of.

And if Jad Fair is worth defending, then surely Smith is too.

The thing about the tournament is that it's extremely difficult to remove the player from their songs and really see what they contributed. Some will be far more obvious than others in that regard.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:09:25 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/29/2014 00:09

meccalecca wrote:

That's some really stupid logic.

Would any guitarist in this tournament be nominated if they weren't well known/acclaimed?

That was a portion of the quote, but the main idea was "If Mr. Smith was some no - name street guitarist, would we even be having a discussion about his merit in this tournament?" While you're correct in regards towards nominations (which makes the first half incorrect), I still have doubts he would have people defending his nomination assuming he didn't possess the acclaim (and he was nominated). A good example is Jad Fair actually. He still had people who attempted to defend him despite not having anywhere near the amount of popularity as his opponent.

Of course, I still had certain qualms in regards to the statement (such as the point you brought up) mainly because it's difficult to gauge assumptions. However, the point of the statement overall was to state the idea that Smith's playing in regards to guitar work is just not all that unique. Others will argue otherwise which is fine by me. Either way, the point of these tournaments is to discuss thoughts etc. and I think (which isn't necessary to make a distinction about because everything I post is what I think) that Mr. Smith just doesn't distinguish himself from any other guitarist I enjoy. Also, I love his music, but I could never state he's done so because his guitar playing wooed me in any way.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

meccalecca — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:53:43 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/28/2014 23:53

Happymeal wrote:

if Elliott Smith played the same way except he wasn't acclaimed to no end, would he have actually been nominated? If Mr. Smith was some no - name street guitarist, would we even be having a discussion about his merit in this tournament?

That's some really stupid logic.

Would any guitarist in this tournament be nominated if they weren't well known/acclaimed?

Elliott is acclaimed because he was so good.

I still stand by my vote for Gilmour though. As others have said, it's one thing to play a song note for note, but it's another thing to play with such emotion.

And no, sorry, Syd wasn't a better guitar player than Gilmour. That's crazy crazy.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:25:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 22:25

Yeah, I've always loved Smith's guitar lines and writing with the instrument, I've just never really thought of him as being super proficient at the instrument itself. Along with some sloppy live videos I've seen in the past and just a general air of seeing him more as a songwriter who uses guitar rather than a guitarist, it's hard for me to vote for him over other a good majority of other guitarists in this tourney. I have learned and loved guitar parts to his songs, so I'd never say he's bad at the instrument. A solid folk guitarist. As for whether he has a place in it or not, I'd probably say he has more of a place than Rachel Goswell (because did we really need all of Slowdive's guitarists?), that cartoon character, Richy Edwards, and a few others I'm sure, but not as much as some people who were unfortunately left out (Jim O' Rourke immediately comes to mind, along with Doug Martsch, Michael Karoli, and a whole host of others).

Ultimately I'd take most Smith albums over most Pink Floyd, but I do think Gilmour was probably a better guitarist.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:11:22 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 22:11

Great post, Borve. I had a similar impression of Smith's playing, but couldn't have expressed it as well.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:50:15 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 21:50

I haven't even listened to much Elliott Smith (mostly cause the mood his music conveys to me sort of reminds of Nickelback, which is a sort of unfortunate association I suppose), but he's among the very first people I'd come up with when thinking of guitarists in pop music who're able to use the acoustic guitar very melodically. Many of even the greatest acoustic singer/songwriters either strum chords or pick notes that accompanies the melodies they have going on, but Smith is one of the few I've heard where the acoustic guitar actually sort of sings along with him; listen to this:

Link

The acoustic guitar is an awkward and difficult instrument to compose and play melodies with; while strumming chords or picking notes, you might compose a melody in your head which you can sing that suits the playing, but technically you're not playing that actual melody; you've created a sort of basis for the melody to exist, and an environment in which it fits. (...that's at least my personal experience after having played guitar for six years). That's why I've taken such great note of Smith's playing; he's doing stuff the guitar which is fluently melodic in itself. There's a elegance to his approach to the guitar which sets him apart from many others I've heard. Also I refuse to believe his playing is simply "simple"; it might say more about myself as a player, but whenever I've tried to play one of his songs, it's been a tragic and devastating event for everyone involved; I think he's doing some crazy difficult things sometimes. Also I believe that the only important quality of a guitarist is to be able to play and compose great music with his instrument (being technically gifted isn't a quality in itself, but a tool to use and a craft to learn in order to achieve this), and Smith certainly was, and hence he belongs to this tourney. Also I'm voting David Gilmour becuase he's a boss

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Hayden — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:24:27 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/28/2014 21:24

HazeyTwilight wrote:

Gilmour's style isn't complex whatsoever. Many beginner guitar players will learn stuff off of Wish You Were Here and The Wall.

Jack White did the same thing, it wasn't that they played complex progressions or difficult maneuvers, it falls to the emotion, composition and performance that went into their careers. Anyone can play Wish You Were Here on guitar, but only Gilmour's version can make you cry.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:49:47 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 20:49

HazeyTwilight wrote:

Guys, sometimes simplicity is just better than complexity. Sure Gilmour crafted some gorgeous lines and solos during his time with Pink Floyd, but that sort of complexity is what people strive to be and ultimately fail at unless you worship shredders. Gilmour's playing is more of an ideal whilst Elliott's is a lot closer to home than what you may think. I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

Rocky is correct in the sense Gilmour isn't too much of a shredder, but "simplicity" is an odd thing to be nominated for. I mean, if Elliott Smith played the same way except he wasn't acclaimed to no end, would he have actually been nominated? If Mr. Smith was some no - name street guitarist, would we even be having a discussion about his merit in this tournament? It's difficult to make a conclusive answer, but I think the fact that Homeless Mustard wasn't nominated proves that Mr. Smith is surviving here because he's made music that's been acclaimed. Of course, i agree with that acclaim, but he certainly doesn't belong in this tournament.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

RockyRaccoon — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:10:20 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/28/2014 19:10

HazeyTwilight wrote:

Actually, I would say Gilmour is often fairly simple in his guitar playing. His solos are often about holding out notes for all their worth, he's far from a shredder.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Patman360 — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 06:42:23 GMT

Author: Patman360

Posted: 09/28/2014 10:42

Elliott.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

HazeyTwilight — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 05:31:40 GMT

Author: HazeyTwilight

Posted: 09/28/2014 09:31

Guys, sometimes simplicity is just better than complexity. Sure Gilmour crafted some gorgeous lines and solos during his time with Pink Floyd, but that sort of complexity is what people strive to be and ultimately fail at unless you worship shredders. Gilmour's playing is more of an ideal whilst Elliott's is a lot closer to home than what you may think. I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

Also, for the people questioning Elliott's place in this tourney; how can you say that when you have gems like these:

Link

Link

Link

Besides, Syd Barrett was the better Pink Floyd guitarist.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

benpaco — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 01:16:39 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 09/28/2014 05:16

Literally wearing a Dark Side Of The Moon shirt as I vote for Gilmour ... love Smith's music more, actually, but I see Gilmour as more talented.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:29:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 04:29

I love Smith to death and only really care for a couple Floyd albums, but even I'll say Elliott wasn't really a phenomenal guitarist and Gilmour is certainly better.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:06:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 04:06

You can prefer whomever you want, but I never really thought of Elliott as a guitarist. His music is amazing, but it's not because he's particularly excellent at anything outside of his brilliant lyrical content and voice which resonates so damn well. I'm not a huge Gilmour fan, but Elliott Smith being in this tourney is odd to me (I remember not caring about his first round matchup against Jad Fair though).

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 22:12:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/28/2014 02:12

Hayden wrote:

No matter how 'uncool' some people on here may think Pink Floyd is, there is absolutely no way you can convince me Elliott Smith was a better guitar player than David Gilmour. My favourite prog guitarist without a doubt.

This

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Anonymous — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:36:10 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/27/2014 22:36

Hayden wrote:

No matter how 'uncool' some people on here may think Pink Floyd is, there is absolutely no way you can convince me Elliott Smith was a better guitar player than David Gilmour.

Even as someone with mixed feelings about Pink Floyd, I have to agree with this.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

Hayden — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:34:44 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/27/2014 22:34

No matter how 'uncool' some people on here may think Pink Floyd is, there is absolutely no way you can convince me Elliott Smith was a better guitar player than David Gilmour. My favourite prog guitarist without a doubt.

Re: [Closed]Best Ever Guitarist: David Gilmour vs. Elliott Smith

HazeyTwilight — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 17:00:15 GMT

Author: HazeyTwilight

Posted: 09/27/2014 21:00

I can see David Gilmour's appeal, and he does have some moments where I think he's great, but it breaks my heart to see Elliott losing right now.