Best Ever Albums

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Sean — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 21:36:55 GMT

Author: Sean

Posted: 03/28/2015 01:36

I don't like this. I think if someone listens to an album ten times from 1979 as oppose to listening to an album from 2015 it will be the same experience. I'd like to see To Pimp A Butterfly compete with good kid right away

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

albummaster — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 04:33:28 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 12/22/2014 09:33

Just to respond, the main reason for implementing the change was to remove the effect of people coming to the site, leaving a chart, and then never being seen again. These are the charts that were causing most of the issues.

We'll have to see what happens in the new year, as it's too early to make any predictions. Obviously, we'll all be keeping a close eye on things & further changes can be made if they are needed. It'll be fairly obvious if there's a sudden rush of 2014 albums appearing at the top of people's overall charts 😉 (& I really don't think most people are out to do this).

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Rockdrigo — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 23:31:14 GMT

Author: Rockdrigo

Posted: 12/22/2014 04:31

IMO; This is just taking out the way of having an influence in the site for lots of people (as far as I know most people don't have decade or year charts), and the way the algoritm was before was already serving the purpose of showing the best albums of this year.

One quick first: One problem I have is sending the album hundreds of steps behind (but this is apparently going to change as soon as the next year begin). Hopefully the whole next year won't stay with the new system.

Now, the question is what we should value more: Lots of people giving little amounts of points or a few ones giving lots of points?

If we see the site as a whole, having an album with certain amount of points over another with fewer points means the first one deserves to go higher, because a percentage of the site's points has been given to it that could have been given to another but wasn't, so it doesn't matter how many users think (by giving their points) a certain album should occupy a position, rather how many of their points are willing to give to prove it.

If album A is higher than album B is because more value was put on the former, and having everybody the access to giving that value (via their personal greatest chart) we don´t need any more or less, the thing was working before the change.

(Excuse me for my grammar, still learning English)

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

zexen47 — Sat, 20 Dec 2014 16:21:27 GMT

Author: zexen47

Posted: 12/20/2014 21:21

I'm not sure this is the solution. To me, it just means kicking the problem forward till Jan 1st. If outliers are the problem, and an album that appears in 10 year charts is ranked lower than an album that only is featured in a best ever chart, maybe the solution is to discard outliers, like not adding points for the best position in a best-ever chart, or only counting best ever chart points if it appears in at least X charts like that (say, 3 or 4).

Right now, current year albums are being brought down in the rankings artificially, and they'd be brought up as soon as the year ends, without ever actually solving the problem, in my opinion

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

blueandthemoon — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:01:23 GMT

Author: blueandthemoon

Posted: 12/19/2014 02:01

Ah! So now I know why the 2014 chart changed so drastically! I like the change, as there was definitely too much weigh given to 2014 albums that were put in overall charts. TBH, you can't really know if an album is deserving of an overall spot unless you have had time to sit with it (I'm talking months if not years here). I know that no album from 2014 would be on my overall chart (yet), and applying this to everybody seems fair.

BTW, this is my *first* forum post and I just want to thank AM for making a fantastic site. I consider myself a music buff, but it always surprises me how much amazing music I haven't even heard yet. Thanks for everything and keep up the good work! 😁

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

albummaster — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 03:24:12 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 12/18/2014 08:24

This is a good idea & was considered when year/decade charts were introduced but the implementation means having three separate scores across the site for each album (year/decade/overall), plus potentially for other types of chart if other types are introduced. The 'all in one' score just seemed (at the time it was introduced) a bit less confusing for visitors and easier to change if changes were needed.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

paladisiac — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:41:13 GMT

Author: paladisiac

Posted: 12/17/2014 23:41

I'm late to the discussion, but sometimes i think this is how it should work:

Overall chart influenced by overall charts, decade charts and year charts.

Decade charts influenced by decade charts and year charts.

Year charts influenced by year charts only.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

hippo — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 13:55:33 GMT

Author: hippo

Posted: 12/17/2014 18:55

So, for the current year, only decade and year charts count for points? Seems fair as favouritism can affect rankings easily (putting an album released by your favourite artist as a top 10 of all time). This is a good change.

I don't understand how The Suburbs by Arcade Fire dropped 2 places. Is it because some people didn't update their overall chart since 2010?

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

albummaster — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 06:27:03 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 12/17/2014 11:27

meruizh wrote:

Of what I understood, the album will get full points when you update your overall chart in 2015.

That's correct. If the chart is updated next year the album will score points.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

meruizh — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:58:07 GMT

Author: meruizh

Posted: 12/16/2014 20:58

Martinborras wrote:

Mmm, i dont think it is a great idea. I mean, for example (wich is true), if I had put Sun Structures by Temples in the 28th place in my Top 100 Greatest Music Albums chart, why would it not receive the points it deserves? it has to be interpretated like any other album, I think.

Greetings, and sorry for my spelling mistakes, if there is any.

Of what I understood, the album will get full points when you update your overall chart in 2015.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Martinborras — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 16:52:11 GMT

Author: Martinborras

Posted: 12/15/2014 21:52

Mmm, i dont think it is a great idea. I mean, for example (wich is true), if I had put Sun Structures by Temples in the 28th place in my Top 100 Greatest Music Albums chart, why would it not receive the points it deserves? it has to be interpretated like any other album, I think.

Greetings, and sorry for my spelling mistakes, if there is any.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Tap — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:07:23 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 12/15/2014 05:07

I think the decade charts are still counting, but since they max out at 10 points instead of 100, they seem a bit more reasonable.

And thanks for putting in that one view albummaster! I like to nerd out on these sorts of things so that's going to be seeing some use on my end for sure.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 23:42:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 12/15/2014 04:42

Cool seeing this in place, took a bit to get used to but I think it's a nice addition now that I'm seeing it. It'll be interesting seeing how things change throughout January as overalls started getting updated again and 2014 albums start getting back up in the top 1000.

Just a quick question though, for curiosity's sake. Does the change also apply to decade charts last updated in 2014, or is it just to overall charts?

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

albummaster — Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:44:31 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 12/11/2014 10:44

secretdad wrote:

I think it'd be really cool for one of the options in the "Show this chart as it was on the following date" dropdown, we had the option for December 31st of whatever year it was. That would be the perfect snapshot of what the people in this community living through the year and devouring the music thought of it at the time.

Happy to add this (I'll add to the list)

EDIT: this is now done (all previous years in the pick list are now shown as per year-end)

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Tap — Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:33:53 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 12/11/2014 10:33

Hmm, if the effects of this will start to go away come January 1st, I think it'd be really cool for one of the options in the "Show this chart as it was on the following date" dropdown, we had the option for December 31st of whatever year it was. That would be the perfect snapshot of what the people in this community living through the year and devouring the music thought of it at the time.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

albummaster — Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:28:11 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 12/11/2014 09:28

Thanks for the feedback everyone, nice to get both sides. Obviously, the reason BEA originally started was to try and work out some means of picking out the best albums of all time from the multitude of albums that have been released, and this is solely what the site was about for the first few years. Only relatively recently was the ability to add year and decade charts introduced, mainly to give people people something else to do on BEA once they'd made an overall chart.

This change still doesn't stop anybody putting a 2014 album in their overall chart, it just won't get any points (unless the chart is again updated in 2015) & it only affects the current year (& not any other years). Personally, I just see this as an algorithm change and not a change in the site philosophy. The prime motive is to improve the quality of the current year chart which at the moment is too susceptible to gaming (whether intended or not).

Regards the weighting of year charts points, when the year/decade/overall system was introduced it was always intended to look at rebalancing things (if it was necessary) once there was a sufficient set of data in the system. I'd be happy to look again in the new year to see if any improvements can be made.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Patman360 — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 19:34:53 GMT

Author: Patman360

Posted: 12/11/2014 00:34

sp4cetiger wrote:

Yeah, I was kind of thinking about this too, that said however I just had a look to see how many users are currently eligible to make year charts (Level 6+) and it turns out it's just short of 300 currently which was a pleasant surprise. It's strange to think that there are so many users active on BEA that have nothing to do with the forums... 🤔

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:08:33 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 12/10/2014 23:08

sp4cetiger wrote:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't this mean that only users with enough points to make a year chart can contribute to the site's 2014 chart? I thought that was something we were trying to avoid.

It wouldn't bother me either way. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all of the main year charts compiled only from users' year charts. In the current system, users' year charts are given so little weight that they have virtually no influence on any of the site's rankings.

Yeah, I would love to see year charts get more weight in the rankings as well. I think they actually hold as much (if not more) useful information than the Overall charts tbh which mostly tend to highlight the same albums.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 16:09:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 12/10/2014 21:09

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't this mean that only users with enough points to make a year chart can contribute to the site's 2014 chart? I thought that was something we were trying to avoid.

It wouldn't bother me either way. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all of the main year charts compiled only from users' year charts. In the current system, users' year charts are given so little weight that they have virtually no influence on any of the site's rankings.

Re: Current year chart (& algorithm)

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:46:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 12/10/2014 20:46

Good call albummaster, go for it!