Best Ever Albums

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

buckchip — Sun, 17 Apr 2016 02:32:09 GMT

Author: buckchip

Posted: 04/17/2016 06:32

mars volta is damn good but i still think arcade fire is the best band of 2000s

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

Tap — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 02:53:49 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 04/16/2016 06:53

well if you're gonna do that you should also listen to mu-ziq and luke vibert and squarepusher and then also the labels that were started by artists (skam from autechre, planet mu from mu-ziq, rephlex from aphex twin) and get all the cool stuff from bogdan raczynski, venetian snares, team doyobi and so many others. but that'll only give you a taste of the american side of things, so you'll also need to dig in on tigerbeat6 and schematic record's output, like o9 - church of the ghetto pc, if you're doing this that's absolutely something you'll need to hear, or like sublight records too they were shortlived but had some great stuff like the datach'i albums they put out, and also you'll probably be a little oversaturated on the dsp heavy stuff by this point so you'll probably want to track down some stuff that Merck put out, like proswell or something. at least that's how I'd do it. oh and also of course you can't skip out on the warp records deep cuts, like they pretend that jamie lidell - muddlin gear doesnt exist, had it removed from spotify and everything, but it does exist and is so crazy you have to check it out. and then there's tons of other stuff I'm leaving out like ninja tune or millie plateaux, but yeah, there's a lot to dive into if you're feeling the pull down that stream of electronic music.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 22:04:46 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/16/2016 02:04

Space-Dementia wrote:

Totally agree with most of what you said except maybe different songs and well except that I think Drones was significantly better. I have T2L on vinyl (4 disks) and I really only listen to the first 3 songs and last three songs, with the exception of animals once in a while.

Save Me is the worst Muse song ever written. I mean it's cool that Wolstenholme was able to sing a couple songs on the album, but that song should never have been put on the album.

I actually really like Unsustainable... probably equally for the message as for the music. The whole attempt to make a dubstep sound from a normal band... I think they did alright. It was rad live, that's for sure.

I remember being equally frustrated with King of Limbs from Radiohead... I felt that both KOL and T2L were lackluster efforts with some amazing work and some really terrible work.

Tracks I feel range from lackluster to terrible from Drones:
Revolt
Aftermath
The Globalist

But I actually love the polyphonic melody/singing on the song Drones.

As for why change:
No NEED... I mean if someone does something really well, why not just keep doing it?

What blows me away though, and for me is a sign of a REALLY good artist, is the artist is able to transform their sound without suffering artistic quality/aesthetic. For me that's when a band/artist goes from great to amazing.

Foo Fighters and Muse will always be great alternative rock bands, but they will never be on the same level as R.E.M., U2, or Radiohead... unless of course they make that change.

I will say Foo Fighters kind of did it with their skin and bones tour, along with the second half of In Your Honour... but I feel it wasn't quite enough (especially since it was one off and they have since kind of abandoned anything like that... and possibly for the better because Wasting Light was amazing compared to EPSG.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

Space-Dementia — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 21:08:52 GMT

Author: Space-Dementia

Posted: 04/16/2016 01:08

sethmadsen wrote:

What did you mean by: over-the-top (I'm guessing the big belting choruses, etc?), they have something in mind but they can't realize it (maybe you didn't like the symphony?), crazy singing, aspire to be bigger than they really are (I think I have a hard time reading this trait in bands... I hear it all the time from Nirvana, Led Zeppelin, Beatles, U2... basically any big band... what's the evidence- not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just trying to understand).

I really liked their first four albums, and The Resistance wasn't bad, but I was mainly thinking of their latest two albums when I wrote this. While both T2L and Drones have a handful of good songs on them, they're kind of messy overall. Follow Me, Unsustainable, and Save Me (all from The 2nd Law) are songs I think they never should have made just because they don't add anything to their quality, and actually detract from it. On the first two songs, they were trying to do something that was so out of the way for them that it just became pop trash, which pissed me off because Muse was the band I got into to get away from pop trash. And then Save Me was just a forgettable song that I heard twice and never wanted to hear again. Meanwhile, Drones represents more of them having something in mind but not realizing it. They knew they wanted to write a concept album with a distinct story, like The Wall or American Idiot, but they couldn't write a story while also writing poetry. The lyrics are really cringe-worthy. They also wanted to go back to their original sound but couldn't. Sure, Reapers and The Handler are great songs, but songs like Revolt, Aftermath, Mercy, Drones, and honestly The Globalist are forgettable. There's just no sense of the heavy rock with hints of Radiohead that they showed up until BH&R. At this point they're just trying to do more than they have up their sleeves.

sethmadsen wrote:

Thing I don't like about them is they've been around long enough to maybe push the envelope and do something different, but I feel they have the same formula for their music.
I mean Foo Fighters often do this same formula problem too, and I still largely respect them.
And they are good at what they do so why change, right?

Why change? Because it gets boring. I'll go along with your example of the Foo Fighters. Sure they have some fantastic singles and some pretty good albums, but after a while I just get all their songs mixed up because they're all so similar. Whereas a band like Radiohead, I recall each song because they're all so different. I don't know. I still like Muse, but I'm definitely realizing why people don't like them.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 19:53:39 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 23:53

Gowi wrote:

Battles

Love these guys.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 19:52:11 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 23:52

RockyRaccoon wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

RockyRaccoon wrote:

benpaco wrote:

Hell, Bon Iver's Holocene is technically in one measure of 5/4, two measures 4/4, one measure 2/4, two measures 4/4, repeat. The song just does it more subtly than some of the prog rock/math rock/etc out there that has more notably strange shifts.

IDK there's a lot of music out there that does fun things with time signatures and I feel like what seth might have been trying to praise really was a style more than a specific band. Am I right at all?

Yea, I mean complicated time signatures are interesting, but it doesn't mean much, other than making you go "huh. That's neat"

I mean shit, "Silent Lucidity" by Queensryche is in 15/16, it doesn't make the song good (though I do like it, just not for the time signature). It's cool that Tool's "Lateralus" changes time signatures in a Fibonacci sequence, but that doesn't make the song good, it's just interesting.

Also, yea, complicated time signatures have been in music forever, Mars Volta is hardly unique in that sense. Just listen to some music from the Baroque era if you wanna hear strange, weird, complicated time signatures.

It's not terribly common in rock though. I mean 4/4 and 3/4 are a vast majority if not closer to most rock music?

Well yea, 4/4 and 3/4 are the most common time signatures in Western music.

And if you're going to go as broad as "rock", yea maybe, that covers so much it's impossible to know. But if you go with "progressive rock", which is more what Mars Volta is, it's not as uncommon. Look at stuff from Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Rush, Zappa, you'll see complicated time signatures all over the place.

VERY good point.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

craola — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:41:24 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 04/15/2016 16:41

benpaco wrote:

a lot of the time, you don't recognize a song's time signature deviates from standard 4/4 or 3/4. songs are way more interesting to me when the time signature doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. it shouldn't be a quality you catch onto immediately because it should go with a song's natural flow.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

mickilennial — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:06:17 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 04/15/2016 16:06

With the expansion of the current math, prog, and experimental scenes it really should come as no surprise that the variation away from 4/4 and 3/4 isn't really that standout. Some of my favorite bands have had that sort of technicality (Battles, Don Caballero, Tricot, etc.)

One of my favorites of recent years brings me back the love I had for Don Cab:

Link

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RockyRaccoon — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:57:45 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 04/15/2016 14:57

sethmadsen wrote:

RockyRaccoon wrote:

benpaco wrote:

It's not terribly common in rock though. I mean 4/4 and 3/4 are a vast majority if not closer to most rock music?

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:43:30 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 14:43

RockyRaccoon wrote:

benpaco wrote:

It's not terribly common in rock though. I mean 4/4 and 3/4 are a vast majority if not closer to most rock music?

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RockyRaccoon — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:25:30 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 04/15/2016 13:25

benpaco wrote:

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

kevinweed7 — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 03:51:30 GMT

Author: kevinweed7

Posted: 04/15/2016 07:51

Those two albums in particular are two of the best ever. Mars Volta is if Led Zeppelin, At the Drive In, Pink Floyd and Santana gave birth. If you have not heard yet, you are missing out.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:37:20 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 03:37

dividesbyzero wrote:

the genre of black metal tends to have lyrical themes relating to violence, satanism, white supremacy, and just evil shit in general, but the nature of the music with all of its rage and fury... the hatred in the lyrics is delivered with such conviction that it honestly enhances the black metal aesthetic even though I detest what is being said. By contrast, U2 usually talk about perfectly lovely things but it comes across to me as shallow and unconvincing, so yeah. Then also hip-hop can get pretty violent or even homophobic, but again, when that doesn't come across as "try-hardy" for lack of a better phrase, I see it more as being representitive of a worldview that developed under very different circumstances than my own and/or of a psyche that is very alien to me, but a good artist can make me understand what they might be expressing and where it comes from and even care about the subject matter even if I ultimately fundamentally disagree with it

Yeah... actually I can totally agree with your assessment. Black metal or some gangster rap talking about beating hoes or microwaving kittens... yet somehow its fitting to the music... and somehow convincing. Not that I agree with it, but I also think it is an aesthetic that somehow works.

I do have to ask though... why does U2's lyrics seem so fluffy? Is it because you've lost all respect for Bono?

This video helped me recently actually like their latest album (I hated it when it first came out and that's coming from a U2 "fan")... does this feel contrived? I think it helps convey what maybe the albums lyrics often talk about and bring context to it at least.

And maybe it's like U2 is so fake... they didn't really experience this?

Link

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:25:35 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/15/2016 03:25

sethmadsen wrote:

Do you have any examples?

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:22:38 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 03:22

benpaco wrote:

If I were to praise anything it'd be Money by Pink Floyd being in 7/8... but nobody would even notice it... in other words I agree with the statement before that having something in a funky time signature just because you want to be different isn't something I hold in high esteem.

Writing good music, that then happens to be in a "unique" time signature is where my aesthetic comes from.

Music first (syncing humanity), music theory last (categorizing sounds)... that's my take.

Really cool that you can decipher Holocene as such though. I'm an ok musician and it'd take me a bit to figure that out (maybe musician yourself?).

Also I've had many a conversation about the difference between 2/4 and 4/4... is there really a time signature difference other than what's on paper (meaning how do you really hear the difference?)

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:13:47 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 03:13

By the way, the message I was referring to was that of when I saw them for the resistence tour and their allusions to Brave New World/1984 commentary on society as well as mass hysteria to control people (they surprisingly showed the two towers falling to the song Hysteria... and I'll never think of that song the same way).

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:11:20 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 03:11

dividesbyzero wrote:

I'd prefer a convincing expression of something I hate over a shallow expression of something I agree with I guess

Do you have any examples?

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

RoundTheBend — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:08:53 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/15/2016 03:08

dividesbyzero wrote:

Not to make a tangent out of a tangent, but how much do you think philosophically agreeing with a musician's point of view affects your enjoyment of the music? I know personally I can adore music I find morally reprehensible and detest music that expresses my own philosophies. I'd prefer a convincing expression of something I hate over a shallow expression of something I agree with I guess

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

I'm not laughing at the question (love the question), but I love how this thread has almost turned into something totally different altogether. (real conversation???)

Ok- so more seriously: For a first grasp of my attention lyrics weigh in only 20% (it was REALLY hard for me to get into Jeffery Lewis, but now I love him)... if they are singing about getting drunk and beating their wife (and I notice it)... then I automatically hate it... regardless of how beautiful it is. Neil Young's Living With War was great, mostly because of political content, and slightly less so than for the music (I like the content as much as the music). So it's kinda a mixed bag for me.

I will say that if I agree with philosophical, spiritual, political, social arguments the artist is making, I tend to like it more.

Their personal beliefs (meaning what they as a person believe, completely separated from their art): This is tough... I remember someone on this site saying Beck's involvement with the Church of Scientology made them hate him... for me that plays no role, and I love Beck.

If Trump was a musician though, I'd probably hate him based on who he is.

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 22:55:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/15/2016 02:55

sethmadsen wrote:

have a "message" I agree with

Re: Mars Volta possibly the best band of the 2000s

benpaco — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 22:49:16 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 04/15/2016 02:49

dividesbyzero wrote:

Any asshole can write a song in like 11/4 or something. Making it sound good is another thing entirely and the two have very little to do with each other. Good musicianship ≠ good band