Best Ever Albums

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

RoundTheBend — Thu, 8 Dec 2016 00:03:06 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 12/08/2016 05:03

[quote="AfterHours"]

Quote:

So for a long time I've FELT my criteria/preferred aesthetic, and I usually knew it when I heard it/saw it, but it did take me a little bit to articulate it succinctly.

Fair enough... makes sense.

I suppose my aesthetic can be pluralistic, which makes it hard for me to be final with it and therefore difficult to reach a final destination with it. Having said that, I think I could say what my main aesthetic is, and could more or less say its been the same main thread, with other strings attached ever since I was a kid and fell in love with music.

And I didn't think it was a quick decision.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:58:10 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/07/2016 20:58

Btw, not meant to be interpreted that I arrived at my conclusions lightly or without extensive evaluation. I've listened to Beethoven's 9th countless times and evaluated the emotional/conceptual nuances of its movements and parts thoroughly to conclude its rating/ranking -- which has always been high but has also fluctuated quite bit in that high range. Same goes for the Sistine Chapel or Mahler's 9th or any of my rated selections (to varying degrees depending on how new and familiar they are to me).

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Wed, 7 Dec 2016 02:52:51 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/07/2016 07:52

Quote:

Defining an Aesthetic you can agree with... was that hard? Has a year gone by and it not change?

Just curious because mine is almost ever changing and your structure is envied... haahaha.

I think I'll always favor works with greater ingenuity and emotional/conceptual depth. Since getting into Classical music as a teenager and realizing there was music striving for so much more than what I'd been listening to (Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Radiohead, etc), that's what I've yearned for. It would be a few more years before I found out that Rock too had such works -- they were just not that popular/well known. And then Jazz followed suit for me too.

So for a long time I've FELT my criteria/preferred aesthetic, and I usually knew it when I heard it/saw it, but it did take me a little bit to articulate it succinctly.

Along with that it has been looking for and assimilating lots of art that meets my criteria/aesthetic. The uniform ratings were worked out over trial and error. But the main thing I recommend is, once one has stated his/her criteria, whether it be the same or similar to mine or completely different, he/she then decides what is the ideal/very best artistic example of that ever created. For me that is probably Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel or Beethoven's 9th or possibly Mahler's 9th. Then one can work his ratings back, point by point from there and figure out a precise listing that has an evident logic to it. Such as: "If Sistine Chapel is a 10/10 (or in my case 9.6 or 9.7/10), then what's just a mini notch below that?" Let's say its Verdi's Requiem and Bach's Mass in B Minor and perhaps Wagner's Tristan and Isolde. "OK, that's 9.5". As one works this out from the top down, it establishes very firm points of comparison one can use in determining future ratings, which also reinforces one's certainty of one's criteria and gets one better and better at recognizing and applying it.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

RoundTheBend — Wed, 7 Dec 2016 00:53:24 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 12/07/2016 05:53

AfterHours wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

[q uote="AfterHours"]
As a note, and to avoid confusion, artists such as Radiohead and The Beatles (with their best works: OK Computer, Kid A, Amnesiac, Sgt Pepper, Abbey Rd, parts of White Album, parts of Magical Mystery Tour, and songs like Strawberry Fields Forever, Tomorrow Never Knows...) are at or close to the higher end of creativity and emotional/ conceptual depth in relation to most mainstream artists, but are at the low end in relation to the most creative and emotionally/conceptually extraordinary artists (examples such as Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, The Velvet Underground, Tim Buckley, Can, Charles Mingus, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, and many others)

Holy Shit... do you write for a living? You write really well. You articulate thoughts I think, but could never write them this way.

Besides that, I mostly agree (only because I'm not sure how to come to such a conclusion with any certainty) and certainly understand where you are coming from.

Thank you but nope 😄 Generally speaking, most of my conclusions about art came to full fruition as I was assimilating tons of rock, jazz, classical music, films and visual art. Over time I was fielding so many questions (and, alas, some arguments!) about my choices that I guess I fine tuned my explanations more and more throughout those experiences.

Makes sense- it's already in draft #23 by the time you've written it kind of thing. My opinions change too much for that :(

Re: Draft #23 ... Yeah, something like that 😄 My opinions on a work tend to fluctuate at first (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little) before settling into a more stable rating. Having a well defined criteria has helped an awful lot with ratings/rankings and in speeding up that process of deciding -- particularly since it is based on the fundamental purposes of art (or at least the art I care about), and all-embracive regardless of art form, and thus limits those little arguments with myself when I rate/rank.[/quote]

Defining an Aesthetic you can agree with... was that hard? Has a year gone by and it not change?

Just curious because mine is almost ever changing and your structure is envied... haahaha.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Mon, 5 Dec 2016 23:52:07 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/06/2016 04:52

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

As a note, and to avoid confusion, artists such as Radiohead and The Beatles (with their best works: OK Computer, Kid A, Amnesiac, Sgt Pepper, Abbey Rd, parts of White Album, parts of Magical Mystery Tour, and songs like Strawberry Fields Forever, Tomorrow Never Knows...) are at or close to the higher end of creativity and emotional/ conceptual depth in relation to most mainstream artists, but are at the low end in relation to the most creative and emotionally/conceptually extraordinary artists (examples such as Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, The Velvet Underground, Tim Buckley, Can, Charles Mingus, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, and many others)

Makes sense- it's already in draft #23 by the time you've written it kind of thing. My opinions change too much for that :(

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

RoundTheBend — Sun, 4 Dec 2016 20:41:46 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 12/05/2016 01:41

AfterHours wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Makes sense- it's already in draft #23 by the time you've written it kind of thing. My opinions change too much for that 🙁

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Sun, 4 Dec 2016 01:45:06 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/04/2016 06:45

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

RoundTheBend — Sun, 4 Dec 2016 00:04:33 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 12/04/2016 05:04

AfterHours wrote:

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Sat, 3 Dec 2016 14:28:52 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/03/2016 19:28

AfterHours wrote:

I voted yes even though some others are more overrated -- Sgt Pepper is close enough.

Most overrated albums all time goes something like:

1. Revolver
2. Rubber Soul
3. White Album
4. Dark Side of the Moon
5. Ziggy Stardust
6. OK Computer
7. Kid A
8. Pet Sounds
9. Nevermind
10. Sgt Pepper
11. Abbey Rd
Etc...

All of those are at least solid-to-good-to-great albums, but are wildly over-estimated next to many other much more astonishing Rock albums/Jazz albums/Classical works -- or other major art forms.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

RoundTheBend — Fri, 2 Dec 2016 20:44:50 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 12/03/2016 01:44

I think this is possibly the funniest question considering the regular forum posters.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Fri, 2 Dec 2016 02:21:39 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/02/2016 07:21

murmur wrote:

I find the entire Beatles catalog overrated, but I believe that the existence of "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Eleanor Rigby" on Revolver make its wide praise understandable, if still exaggerated (really, the album with "Yellow Submarine" is one of the greatest ever made?). Rubber Soul, rightly or wrongly, is acknowledged as one of the first cohesive LPs, and I think there are plenty of songs of beauty there to make it better in my eyes than some of the ones farther down your list.

To address the OP, I do think that Sgt. Pepper's falls into a host of textbook pitfalls that make it overrated:

--acknowledged as the first concept album though it is not
--acknowledged as one of the most cohesive artistic statements ever even though it's borderline a compilation of very unlike songs that would be received with some confusion if a modern artist put it out
--acknowledged as having a host of experimental moments even though the Beatles' most daring works are to be found on The Beatles, Revolver, and Abbey Road
--"A Day in the Life" is the first Beatles work before the Abbey Road medley to be viewed as innovative merely for taking two half-written songs and cramming them together into a single work for basically no reason
--extremely overhyped "classical influence" that essentially amounts to there being the presence of session musicians who use orchestral instruments and that ridiculous final chord on "A Day in the Life"

I still think OK Computer might just edge it out as the most overrated at present given that Sgt. Pepper's esteem seems to fall gradually with time and as more people realize it is a collection of good songs that don't really fit together, where OK Computer is seen as some master meditation on politics, love, ethics, isolation, and the human condition that it simply isn't.

I second most of what you've said. Even though Sgt Pepper is probably The Beatles best album IMO (or maybe Abbey Rd), and A Day in the Life perhaps their best song. I wouldn't mount much of an argument vs OK Computer being #1 most overrated either, even though an excellent album.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

Anonymous — Thu, 1 Dec 2016 23:41:46 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 12/02/2016 04:41

I find the entire Beatles catalog overrated, but I believe that the existence of "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Eleanor Rigby" on Revolver make its wide praise understandable, if still exaggerated (really, the album with "Yellow Submarine" is one of the greatest ever made?). Rubber Soul, rightly or wrongly, is acknowledged as one of the first cohesive LPs, and I think there are plenty of songs of beauty there to make it better in my eyes than some of the ones farther down your list.

To address the OP, I do think that Sgt. Pepper's falls into a host of textbook pitfalls that make it overrated:

--acknowledged as the first concept album though it is not
--acknowledged as one of the most cohesive artistic statements ever even though it's borderline a compilation of very unlike songs that would be received with some confusion if a modern artist put it out
--acknowledged as having a host of experimental moments even though the Beatles' most daring works are to be found on The Beatles, Revolver, and Abbey Road
--"A Day in the Life" is the first Beatles work before the Abbey Road medley to be viewed as innovative merely for taking two half-written songs and cramming them together into a single work for basically no reason
--extremely overhyped "classical influence" that essentially amounts to there being the presence of session musicians who use orchestral instruments and that ridiculous final chord on "A Day in the Life"

I still think OK Computer might just edge it out as the most overrated at present given that Sgt. Pepper's esteem seems to fall gradually with time and as more people realize it is a collection of good songs that don't really fit together, where OK Computer is seen as some master meditation on politics, love, ethics, isolation, and the human condition that it simply isn't.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

AfterHours — Thu, 1 Dec 2016 22:31:39 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 12/02/2016 03:31

I voted yes even though some others are more overrated -- Sgt Pepper is close enough.

Most overrated albums all time goes something like:

1. Revolver
2. Rubber Soul
3. White Album
4. Dark Side of the Moon
5. Ziggy Stardust
6. OK Computer
7. Kid A
8. Pet Sounds
9. Nevermind
10. Sgt Pepper
11. Abbey Rd
Etc...

All of those are at least solid-to-good-to-great albums, but are wildly over-estimated next to many other much more astonishing Rock albums/Jazz albums/Classical works -- or other major art forms.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

reeceyboi — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:16:44 GMT

Author: reeceyboi

Posted: 12/01/2016 02:16

I said Yupo mainly on the fact that it's not my favorite Beatles album, but i guess everyone has their favorite. I Prefer Revolver, Abbey Road, The Beatles and Rubber Soul to Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. I think it just bored me towards the middle but i still think it's great!

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

davidhuret — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 05:29:19 GMT

Author: davidhuret

Posted: 11/30/2016 10:29

I listened to it recently (for the trillionth time), just to be certain. Reaching its end after what felt like a few minutes, I was thinking "this is the best album ever!".
Back to sober silence, I whole-heartedly vote "nerp" to the question asked. Under-rated more like...

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

TheHutts — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:49:24 GMT

Author: TheHutts

Posted: 11/29/2016 22:49

I've always thought that The Beatles' late albums dropped off in quality. Abbey Road is a masterpiece of arrangement and production, but has very few great songs IMO - 'Here Comes The Sun', 'Something', and some of McCartney's stuff are the only top tier songs for me. I find Let It Be really weak.

Revolver, Sgt Peppers, and the surrounding singles are their peak.

Definitely Overrated

Fischman — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:34:53 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 11/29/2016 22:34

Hugely overrated, but it's a hard sell to call it the most overrated ever. The Beatles are hugely overrated and I daresay every Beatle album is horribly overrated with the possible exception of Revolver.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

LAF2 — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:04:17 GMT

Author: LAF2

Posted: 11/29/2016 22:04

I'll second Abbey Road being most overrated among the Beatles' catalogue.

Not sure why ppl enjoy shitting on Pepper so much, easily one of the most ambitious, forward-thinking releases ever.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

LAF2 — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:03:10 GMT

Author: LAF2

Posted: 11/29/2016 22:03

Delete.

Re: Sgt. Pepper's the most overrated album?

danmarzella — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 16:56:08 GMT

Author: danmarzella

Posted: 11/29/2016 21:56

I don't know about album, but Radiohead is the most over-rated band ever.