Best Ever Albums

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 20:23:12 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 02/25/2017 01:23

Jimmy Dread wrote:

I find this a tad bizarre, because surely historical background, etc. shouldn't count one iota as to one's take on the music in the grooves. I've always appreciated music on a purely emotional level, and as I've said before if it makes me dance or sing loud or pick up a tennis racket and play air guitar or cry buckets or think deeply about the world around me or gives me the horn or lets me float away on a sea of bliss then that's infinitely more important to me than cultural/historical significance, technical proficiency, lyrical content, etc. Not saying you're wrong when you say that you'll appreciate the album on next listen because you know more about it - that's your prerogative - but knowing the inside leg measurement of the drummer or if the album was recorded in a dingy studio where damp was setting in and the coffee machine was bust counts for nowt when you stick the record on at a party and everyone just wants to get down and funky.

Good points. Totally agree that music should just jive immediately. Sometimes the best music doesn't though (at least in my experience). They grow on you either because you have changed your mood/mindset or because the song has a new meaning to it because of a deeper understanding of it. Atonal music for example... if I didn't understand the historical/cultural context of it, I would have ZERO appreciation for it. I still don't like it, but at least I can understand why there isn't a tonic and what it was trying to accomplish. From that perspective I can at least understand it and try and meet somewhere in the middle.

Same goes for this discussion. I didn't get why there was soul music that was so "complex" and so it kind of was a turn off because my expectations were different.

Kind of like when people go to the movies and if they have a high expectation and the movie doesn't meet it, they usually are disappointed. Opposite is also often true- go to a movie you have no expectation of and it turns out to be great or at least ok.

I suppose what I mean is my first listen around, I wasn't digging it. I didn't understand the significance of a 9 minute soul song and my first impression wasn't positive. I was expecting the pop song. Due to the discussion I can appreciate why the 9 minute song and am willing to give it a listen with a different point of view.

So no... the album didn't immediately connect with me (well it technically did, but then I got turned off by the length of songs/slightly more complex arrangements as previously mentioned).

But hey, if that don't jive, that's cool too. I guess I just process music differently.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Jimmy Dread — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:00:43 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 02/24/2017 13:00

sethmadsen wrote:

Fantastic post again and really liked your questions. It really hit home this ADP thing... meaning I have kind of less interest in the album itself (HEATHENS!!!! ahaha), but thanks to your questions, the discussion is very intriguing nonetheless. I mean for example if this album came up as album of the day, I'd be less inclined to comment and learn more from the community. Now I know way more about this album and probably will appreciate it way more the next listen.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

RoundTheBend — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 00:19:46 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 02/22/2017 05:19

@Jimmy - totally agreeing with you that it started a new direction in the genre.

I suppose I was just offering a "New Historicism" view on it - meaning a web of understanding instead of linear. I think all ideas aforementioned are completely possible, but the varying degree of how much of an influence, etc. probably is really difficult to define for sure.

Fantastic post again and really liked your questions. It really hit home this ADP thing... meaning I have kind of less interest in the album itself (HEATHENS!!!! ahaha), but thanks to your questions, the discussion is very intriguing nonetheless. I mean for example if this album came up as album of the day, I'd be less inclined to comment and learn more from the community. Now I know way more about this album and probably will appreciate it way more the next listen.

Much appreciated.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Hayden — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:03:48 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 02/21/2017 16:03

Gotta get on that Stranglers cover....

I'll post in more detail at sometime this week, but this is a fantastic album. Great write-up and great choice Jimmy.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Jimmy Dread — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:28:46 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 02/21/2017 14:28

Graeme2 wrote:

Actually the stranglers version of walk on by is just as good, forgot about that one.

I'm glad someone brought that up, as I'm almost inclined to agree with you. Until I heard Isaac's version I would have certainly said that, although Dionne's version is ace. Could even say the small snippet in the Carpenters' "Bacharach/David Medley" is worthy of mention too. Interesting to see how many times it's been covered - I (thankfully) can't recall lazy-eyed, patch-wearing cod 90s soulstress Gabrielle ever performing it, although she supposedly did.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Graeme2 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 05:52:40 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 02/21/2017 10:52

Graeme2 wrote:

Great post. Walk on by is easily the best version for me and one of the great covers. I have a single edit version of it on a comp and it's not near as good. Think I might prefer To Be Continued slightly over this though.

Actually the stranglers version of walk on by is just as good, forgot about that one.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Jimmy Dread — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 04:11:14 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 02/21/2017 09:11

Skinny wrote:

I will comment on this thread in detail at some point, but I am fairly pinted at the mo. Finna leave this here for now...

Link

Love this - first time I've heard it. Cheers mate.

Gowi wrote:

But we have to remember that Hayes wasn’t the only artist to do this, even in 1969. The nature of music was evolving beyond compilations of assorted singles and the artform was undeniably changing to fit the landscape of both popular music and “art” music. This is the same year that gave us notable classics that were pushing this norm in both the sides of proto-funk pieces (Puzzle People, and Stand!) and songwriter-centric albums (New York Tendaberry, I’m a Loser, and R.B. Greaves’ self-titled debut). So in conclusion, can I say with confidence that Hayes single-handedly provoked this change? Not really, but to say he did not have some part to play would be disingenuous.

A fair point, although I would doubt that full creative control was something that Motown, Atco, Epic et al would have given the artists you mention above at this point, certainly within the soul genre. Hot Buttered Soul may never have happened if Otis Redding hadn't died, given that Stax were clutching at straws to try and keep afloat. The turn of events that led to it were unique, but in so far as it gave Hayes as auteur the ability to flex his creative muscle over HBS is what I think separates it from other albums of the period. I agree that it certainly wasn't single-handedly responsible for the likes of What's Going On, Talking Book et al. but I feel that it can certainly be seen as the foremost if not first example of a soul/funk artist taking control over their output rather than being dictated to by label bosses and the musical landscape of the time.

sethmadsen wrote:

Did this kill off the soul single and open the door for 70s soul to become more album-focused, or am I putting too much relevance on something that was already happening in other forms of music (i.e. rock)?
Hmm... interesting question. Do we know if this was a goal of his? I am also curious how actually jazz had more of an influence instead of rock to maybe revisit that art form. I suppose there were still soul singles after this, but I think I do agree it started a new thing.

Of course there were soul singles after this - I think the point I was trying to drive at was that as the album was the defining musically expressionist artform of the 70s did this album trigger the start of that in soul music. Of course you'd already had Sgt. Pepper, Electric Ladyland and a whole load of other albums in the rock genre by this point which saw the album as the defining form of artistry in guitar music by then, but in soul music had there been anything else before Hot Buttered Soul came out that was conceived as an "album" per se rather than some singles and a bit of filler (for want of better words)?

Thanks all for the comments chaps.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Tap — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 01:32:07 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 02/21/2017 06:32

Quote:

Did Hayes belittle his legacy by becoming Chef in South Park, or did it just augment his versatility and expose him to an audience that might have otherwise missed out? And did he have a legacy worthy of note in the first place?

I watched the very first South Park when I was 12 years old, and that's how I got introduced to Hayes. And I think it led to me not taking him very seriously, like I knew he was the Shaft guy which was fun and all but when coupled together with SP gave him a novelty sort of feeling, so I'd never checked this album out before. But that was a mistake because this album is great. Since it's new to me I really don't have much more substantial than that to say, but thanks for picking this Jim and great write up.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

RoundTheBend — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 22:14:02 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 02/21/2017 03:14

I unfortunately am the fool who has only heard this record once.

When I first put it on (I like soul), I was like oh yeah. And then I was like, WTF... this song is 19847 minutes long!!! In other words, when I first put it on I was excited to get into it, and by the end of it I was a little lost. I do think though it totally is quality work and deserves a few more visits. Definitely a more mature soul work.

Thank you for your educating background. It helped me understand what this record is and why the songs were longer (against the genre norm).

Also you said flip and it reminds me of Utah. Secondly, you made me laugh with the heathens comment... out loud.

I don't really know anything about anything, but here's my response:

1. Given the historical context and what followed (Stevie's furtive early-mid 70s output from Music Of My Mind to Songs In The Key Of Life, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On), did Hot Buttered Soul lay down a template that's been imitated or is it a singular work that stands apart from others, especially given the epic nature of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix?

I think he totally broke the ice for sure. Would I say they imitated it... nah. They have more complex compositions, but don't exactly follow the format. Excellent point... thanks for bringing it to our attention.

2. Did Hayes belittle his legacy by becoming Chef in South Park, or did it just augment his versatility and expose him to an audience that might have otherwise missed out? And did he have a legacy worthy of note in the first place?

I honestly don't know. To be honest, my ignorance doesn't help me here. I mean I knew he was, but I also didn't really connect the dots terribly clearly, so probably for my ignorant self, the latter. But if the argument were for Aretha... I'd probably be saying yes, she sold herself short, so why not for him?

3. Could you see yourself shagging to this record? Or perhaps Black Moses?
No comment.

4. Are the lengths of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix part of the appeal, or do you think they'd have been better tracks if chopped in half (or even less)?
Hard to say.

5. Is there a better version of Walk On By than Isaac's?
I already like Dionne Warwick's version (mostly cause it reminds me of my mom), and haven't been familiar with his yet... so... (By the way, I flipping love her song Trains And Boats And Planes).

6. Did this kill off the soul single and open the door for 70s soul to become more album-focused, or am I putting too much relevance on something that was already happening in other forms of music (i.e. rock)?
Hmm... interesting question. Do we know if this was a goal of his? I am also curious how actually jazz had more of an influence instead of rock to maybe revisit that art form. I suppose there were still soul singles after this, but I think I do agree it started a new thing.

7. Who is the man who would risk his neck for his brother man?
I don't know, but can I just say he's probably one of the sexiest men to ever live... and I'm straight.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Graeme2 — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 03:45:50 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 02/20/2017 08:45

Great post. Walk on by is easily the best version for me and one of the great covers. I have a single edit version of it on a comp and it's not near as good. Think I might prefer To Be Continued slightly over this though.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Skinny — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 18:30:45 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 02/19/2017 23:30

I will comment on this thread in detail at some point, but I am fairly pinted at the mo. Finna leave this here for now...

Link

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

mickilennial — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 17:41:12 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 02/19/2017 22:41

Quote:

Are the lengths of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix part of the appeal, or do you think they'd have been better tracks if chopped in half (or even less)?

As much as I like the bombast and gratuitous nature of funk jam sessions, I feel like the songs here while appealing are the definition of masturbatory and self-indulgent. These are interpretations that would get criticized if they were cut by progressive rock and art rock bands with similar intent. They are good interpretations, but I think for this case (especially Walk On By) they equate to deviations that forget themselves—losing understanding from the piece’s subtleties and delicate sensual expressions.

Quote:

Is there a better version of Walk On By than Isaac's?

The Dionne Warwick original.

Quote:

I wouldn’t say it killed the poignant landscape of singles within the genre, but it did help further the genre down an album-oriented path for a time. But we have to remember that Hayes wasn’t the only artist to do this, even in 1969. The nature of music was evolving beyond compilations of assorted singles and the artform was undeniably changing to fit the landscape of both popular music and “art” music. This is the same year that gave us notable classics that were pushing this norm in both the sides of proto-funk pieces (Puzzle People, and Stand!) and songwriter-centric albums (New York Tendaberry, I’m a Loser, and R.B. Greaves’ self-titled debut). So in conclusion, can I say with confidence that Hayes single-handedly provoked this change? Not really, but to say he did not have some part to play would be disingenuous.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

baystateoftheart — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 15:51:02 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 02/19/2017 20:51

Jimmy Dread wrote:

1. Given the historical context and what followed (Stevie's furtive early-mid 70s output from Music Of My Mind to Songs In The Key Of Life, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On), did Hot Buttered Soul lay down a template that's been imitated or is it a singular work that stands apart from others, especially given the epic nature of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix?
2. Did Hayes belittle his legacy by becoming Chef in South Park, or did it just augment his versatility and expose him to an audience that might have otherwise missed out? And did he have a legacy worthy of note in the first place?
3. Could you see yourself shagging to this record? Or perhaps Black Moses?
4. Are the lengths of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix part of the appeal, or do you think they'd have been better tracks if chopped in half (or even less)?
5. Is there a better version of Walk On By than Isaac's?
6. Did this kill off the soul single and open the door for 70s soul to become more album-focused, or am I putting too much relevance on something that was already happening in other forms of music (i.e. rock)?
7. Who is the man who would risk his neck for his brother man?

Yeah, great album and great post.

1. I would say it's a singular work if not for the fact that Hayes himself used it as a template for his next two albums, both of which are also really good and highly underrated on BEA.

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

The Isaac Hayes Movement by Isaac Hayes

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

...To Be Continued by Isaac Hayes

2. He did have a legacy worthy of note. Can't say, as I've never watched South Park before (I know, sacrilege).
3. I have.
4. For the former, yes. Agree that it even could be much longer. For the latter, the spoken word part drifts into excess to some extent.
5. No. Although I quite like the original recording by Dionne Warwick.
6. No idea. Possibly contributed, but I doubt it can all be traced back to this record.
7. A bad mother

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Norman Bates — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:45:52 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 02/19/2017 19:45

Jimmy Dread wrote:

1. I think it did influence Gaye at least.
2. Hayes would not be complete without Chef now.
3. I have. Bit too much tbh, shagging over a shagging of a record is somewhat redundant + the trap is a wee bit too obvious. Like getting laid to some Barry.
4. They're a large part of the appeal. Walk on By could be 5 minutes longer and I wouldn't be bothered in the least.
5. No. Not that I know of.
6. It did open the door.
7. Damn right.

Re: ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Norman Bates — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:36:44 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 02/19/2017 19:36

Ace post, ace album, ace everything.

ADP No.3 - Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

Jimmy Dread — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:27:54 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 02/19/2017 19:27

Greetings.

So originally this ADP (I went to a dentist's surgery called that once) was going to be all about Fela Kuti's Zombie until AM's random factor decided to chuck it out as Album Of The Day 3 or so days before publication and stole my thunder. I even contemplated going to Nigeria to get some exclusive interviews about it to share some inside info with y'all but something good came on the telly and I forgot. Anyway, onwards and upwards...

So, for your listening pleasure, feast your lugholes on...

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Hot Buttered Soul by Isaac Hayes

BEA rank - 890
BEA rating - 78/100 (bunch of heathens)

It's odd to think that this album might never have seen the light of day if not for the tragic events of December 1967. Stax Records (and it's subsidiary Enterprise, on whose imprint this LP was originally released) were up against it financially, and pretty much solely relied on their box office draw Otis Redding to deliver the goods. When The King Of Soul died in a plane crash (along with members of Stax house band the Bar-Kays, who would ultimately reform with new personnel and provide the backing to Hot Buttered Soul) the label was practically bankrupt, and with Atlantic Records owning rights to Redding's back catalogue Stax wouldn't stand to make any money from re-releasing his output following his untimely death. Stax were desperate, and turned to its entire roster to release new music in the hope of making ends meet.

Up to this point Hayes was most famous as the writer and producer (along with his partner David Porter) of the Stax hit Soul Man for Sam and Dave. In the same year as that was released and Otis died, Hayes released his first album as a performer, Presenting Isaac Hayes. Unlike Soul Man this was a mellow affair, verging (especially with his cover of "When I Fall In Love", using a even-more-mellow version of Nat King Cole's arrangement) on a formulaic jazz/soul-lite crossover with little (if any) emphasis placed on Hayes' deep baritone voice that later became his trademark. However, there were pointers - opener "Precious, Precious" felt like a Gospel preacher warming up and then ends just as it gets going. And it's kind of a shame it did, as somewhere in the Stax vaults there was a 19 minute version gathering dust.

Given Stax's situation and Hayes' reluctance to sell his artistry short he gave the label an ultimatum - if you want me to record a new record and help you out, I've got to have complete creative control. Now bear in mind this was the late 60s, and soul stars such as Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye were still churning out radio-friendly singles at the behest of Motown. True, Curtis Mayfield had his own label by then, and Sly was on the verge of morphing into a stoned funk God, but for a soul artist (and a songwriter at that) to get his own way was a rarity to say the least. However, given desperate times and in need to save Stax from going down the toilet, management relented and Hayes was free to decamp to the studio to produce what would become both a sensuous masterpiece and a signpost to how soul would unravel in the 70s - with the album, and not the single, as the main source of creativity (look at Parliament/Funkadelic and James Brown's 70s output (The Payback, Black Caesar, for example).

So onto the album itself. 4 tracks, with 2 over 10 minutes and one other clocking in at close to 10. The first surprise - with Hayes' songwriting background, there's only one self-penned track here. But it's the covers that make it, and crucially how Hayes puts these 3-minute vignettes on the stretching rack, panning them out to sumptuous epics with - gasp! - string arrangements! fuzz guitar! and THAT VOICE... where the flip did that come from, given how it was almost repressed on his previous effort?

For me, it's the two epics that bookend this album that make it - "Walk On By" is genius, taking one of Bacharach/David's best-known tracks, sticking in a fuzzed-out guitar riff that punctuates the grace and almost cinematic nature of the arrangement before it reaches a organ-blasting crescendo which quite frankly (to these ears anyway) could go on for at least another 15 minutes. And if that wasn't gospel enough for you, then "By The Time I Get To Phoenix" in all its repetitious two bass-noted glory is sheer bliss. In fact, the whole track is as close to sex as recorded sound will ever get - the foreplay that is the seductive, tempting and hypnotic introduction (which as well as being horny as hell had an influence on other early 70s soul epics - think of the spoken word introduction to Bill Withers' "I Can't Write Left-Handed", for example), slowly building into the main track itself (think of this as the 'sex' bit), then into a maelstrom of horns, drums and organ(smic) as it reaches an end, after which follows a period of calm for a post-coital cuddle and cig before a second organsmic moment leads to the song drifting away gently, as if the protagonists decide to nod off for a kip after 18 minutes of intense pleasure.

Whilst the two lengthy tracks are unquestionably responsible for Hot Buttered Soul's primary talking points, don't take anything away from the other two songs. It took me a long time to really appreciate One Woman, the shortest track here (and still over 5 minutes), which superficially might be a little soul-love-song-lite on first listen but given time reveals itself to be a heavenly ode to keeping two birds on the go at once and whether or not to choose the one who's waiting for you at home or the one who seems to spend most of her time hanging out at Starbucks. Hyperbolicsyllabicsesquedalymistic on the other hand is out-of-step with the rest of the record, yet strangely seems to fit perfectly in place as well as indicating in what direction Hayes would turn when writing the soundtrack to Shaft. God knows what it's really about - possibly him wanting to hook up with a white chick, or wanting to kick heroin, or just a nonsense song with a whole load of fancy words in it. Regardless, it's still the first song that springs to mind whenever someone uses the term modus operandi in earshot. Also contains one of hip-hop's greatest samples - the piano break that would form the backing to Public Enemy's "Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos".

Suffice it to say that I fuckin' adore this album, and whether or not you will too depends on how funky your bones are and if you're prepared to give it more than one cursory listen on Spotify. It's a work of genius - wouldn't you agree?

So... questions...

1. Given the historical context and what followed (Stevie's furtive early-mid 70s output from Music Of My Mind to Songs In The Key Of Life, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On), did Hot Buttered Soul lay down a template that's been imitated or is it a singular work that stands apart from others, especially given the epic nature of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix?
2. Did Hayes belittle his legacy by becoming Chef in South Park, or did it just augment his versatility and expose him to an audience that might have otherwise missed out? And did he have a legacy worthy of note in the first place?
3. Could you see yourself shagging to this record? Or perhaps Black Moses?
4. Are the lengths of Walk On By and By The Time I Get To Phoenix part of the appeal, or do you think they'd have been better tracks if chopped in half (or even less)?
5. Is there a better version of Walk On By than Isaac's?
6. Did this kill off the soul single and open the door for 70s soul to become more album-focused, or am I putting too much relevance on something that was already happening in other forms of music (i.e. rock)?
7. Who is the man who would risk his neck for his brother man?