Best Ever Albums

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

CA Dreamin — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 19:25:47 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 03/26/2017 23:25

^^^^Thank you seth for those links, very insightful.

sethmadsen wrote:

As for your interpretations, I wasn't saying they were wrong and I think I agree with you about In Utero being an effort to tell people, look, we aren't Guns and Roses and I'm probably wrong, but I don't think Nirvana would have self identified as Grunge - they likely would have self identified as a punk rock band. I don't think they were trying to make the ideal grunge record, I think they were trying to get back to their punk rock roots.

I can see Kurt saying that. Personally I don't think of 'grunge' as a subgenre, so I don't think there's a quintessential album that defines it. I think of grunge more as a movement with multiple genre influences. Nirvana and Soundgarden are both grunge, but stylistically pretty different. One's closer to a punk band while the other's closer to a heavy metal band. Then you have Pearl Jam and STP, both grunge bands influenced by classic rock (at least for STP's first two albums before they changed their style).

sethmadsen wrote:

You mentioned a polish tone on a few songs with In Utero - you can thank Litt for this. I can't remember where it was I read/heard it, but Kurt wasn't crazy about Albini's work on some of the singles (vocal mix especially), so Litt was brought in. The anniversary edition has both versions.

Looks like the album version has Litt doing Heart-Shaped Box, All Apologies instead of Albini.

Looks like he also did Pennyroyal Tea, but Albini's version made the cut.

In the 40-minute interview video you posted, at the 1:30 mark, the interviewer and Kurt talk about his dissatisfaction of the vocals on Albini's original recordings of All Apologies and Heart-Shaped Box, and Scott Litt was recruited to fix them. Here are Albini's originals:

Link

Link

Not a huge difference.

And here's the Scott Litt version of Pennyroyal Tea:

Link

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 02:35:48 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/26/2017 06:35

Oh - does anyone know if the 2013 mix on the record was actually Butch Vig's interpretation of the album?

EDIT: Looks like Nirvana's website says this:
The In Utero 20th anniversary 2-CD Deluxe Edition features the original album newly remastered, the complete B-sides, alternate mixes, demos and new stereo mixes created by Steve Albini who revisited the album’s original multi-tracks for a new album listening experience.
http://www.nirvana.com/album/in-utero-2cd-deluxe-20th-anniversary-edition/

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 02:27:34 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/26/2017 06:27

Here's a clip from what I was talking about his own lyrics and interpretations of them - maybe my use of the word hate was too harsh. Also some other interesting clips and then the full interview below.

As for your interpretations, I wasn't saying they were wrong and I think I agree with you about In Utero being an effort to tell people, look, we aren't Guns and Roses and I'm probably wrong, but I don't think Nirvana would have self identified as Grunge - they likely would have self identified as a punk rock band. I don't think they were trying to make the ideal grunge record, I think they were trying to get back to their punk rock roots.

Link

Link

Link

Link

You mentioned a polish tone on a few songs with In Utero - you can thank Litt for this. I can't remember where it was I read/heard it, but Kurt wasn't crazy about Albini's work on some of the singles (vocal mix especially), so Litt was brought in. The anniversary edition has both versions.

Looks like the album version has Litt doing Heart-Shaped Box, All Apologies instead of Albini.

Looks like he also did Pennyroyal Tea, but Albini's version made the cut.

You can hear Albini's version of Heart Shaped Box and All Apologies here (well and really all the versions to compare):

https://open.spotify.com/album/6ohX7moZZnF1FwYrli1OJ6

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

CA Dreamin — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:15:39 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 03/25/2017 03:15

sethmadsen wrote:

On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics? Was it simply a way of announcing how he's a different person from the Nevermind sessions, or are the topics somehow connected?

I don't think Kurt ever wrote really coherent flowing lyrics. I don't think there's much to gleem from it other than he talked about two topics in the same song. Nothing new in my opinion.

As we've concluded, Serve the Servants can actually be analyzed as addressing three topics - frustration with record label, frustration with the press, and his father. And again the chorus line 'That legendary divorce is such a bore' brings the three themes together. Such an incredible song.

sethmadsen wrote:

Does All Apologies foreshadow his suicide? Personally I'm not sure, due to the long time between the song's writing and his suicide. But if you think certainly yes or no, please explain.

I think it talks more about a terrible relationship he had with Courtney (which is funny cause I think he dedicated this song to her on a live recording). But that's just my opinion. I don't think this is a suicide apology or whatever.

I don't know very much about their marriage other than it had problems. But isn't that every marriage? They stayed married for two years until he killed himself. The relationship couldn't have been all terrible. There had to be something there. However, since you said he dedicated the song to Courtney, perhaps the song was an apology for not being a better husband. However, I think the song title speaks for itself - All Apologies. He was apologizing for several things. Ex. "What else could I say? Everyone is gay." Gay being a synonym for happy, thus he was apologizing for being unable to find happiness while he saw happiness in everyone around him. I think that could be interpreted as a foreshadow of suicide given how comfortable the music of song is, as opposed to how wild and energetic other tracks on In Utero are. But he didn't make a direct suicide reference in the song, which was part of his lyrical style of ambiguity. So, at most I'd say All Apologies vaguely implies suicide, but so do other Nirvana tracks depending on interpretation. Doesn't mean they foreshadow it.

sethmadsen wrote:

Nobody expected the singles of Nevermind to become the radio sensations they did because by pre-1991 standards, they weren't radio-friendly...too dark, too distorted, too heavy, too angry, too depressing, etc. But as it turned out, those songs, along with several other 1991 hits, helped change what radio-friendliness meant. With that in mind, was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?

This is a difficult question because mainstream is a pretty loose term. In one sense it is absolutely mainstream - it sold millions of copies. In another sense, it was anti-corporate rock and corporate was mainstream, so in that sense Nirvana was always the punk rock attitude and was always anti-establishment, etc.

What I meant was in early '93, grunge was still new to the mainstream. Two years earlier, it was mostly a Seattle thing. It's possible from that perspective to think that grunge could have only been be a short-lived fad on the mainstream level. We know that turned out to be wrong. I was suggesting that if Kurt Cobain was uncomfortable with grunge going mainstream, he understood that he was responsible for it. So In Utero could have been an opportunity to take grunge back out of the mainstream by purposely making it as radio-unfriendly as possible. Of course they didn't, at least not for every song.

sethmadsen wrote:

Unlike Nevermind, where in hindsight nearly every track could have been a radio single, In Utero greatly wavered between the conventional and the unconventional, such as tracks 2, 4, 8, 10, and 11. But why are these songs juxtaposed to radio-friendly songs like Heart-Shaped Box, Dumb, and All Apologies?

Eh - I don't think nearly every track on Nevermind could be a single. But I get what you are getting at. And to answer the question, I think I remember seeing an interview where Nirvana wanted to get back to their harsher sound, what they started with Bleach. They didn't like the overall polished sound of Nevermind.

They liked it enough to repeat it on some In Utero tracks.

sethmadsen wrote:

Furthermore, In Utero constantly jumping around in mood, theme, and song structure can be a valid criticism - it's inconsistent. But perhaps that's the beauty of it because it reflected the personality/mindset of its artist? As an album, how do you feel about it?

I already stated I liked the album. But to why it is "inconsistent" I think largely had to do with drug abuse and the difficulty Nirvana was having at the time with mental health/etc. I think they even had a shrink come to the studio (something I heard and haven't verified). But kind of like the white album, I like the differing things going on... and really for me it isn't that one song sounds like this and one song sounds like that - I think it had more to do with the differing production styles of Albini and Litt.

A shrink at the recording studio? Wow, that's pretty messed up. Tell us more about the difference between Albini and Litt. On a sidenote, when I PMed you saying I was changing which album I was gonna do last-minute, it came down to In Utero or The White Album. The White Album nearly became ADP #6 and here you are mentioning it, haha.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

CA Dreamin — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:02:53 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 03/25/2017 02:02

sethmadsen wrote:

Ok first off - Kurt Cobain HATED it when people tried to interpret his songs. It was like, look, I make the lyrics up on the spot and it doesn't even matter... it's just words. But as a listener listens, they often want meanings. So I suppose that's what is happening here. And it's fun... I feel like he was almost like an impressionist painter with his lyrics - only "painting" the light reflections, not the details. In another way too, it's like this form of poetry of one liners that sometimes seem it doesn't match at all. I think my favorite lyric is something I feel this pseudo vegetarian friend of mine has because she only eats fish for meat: "It's ok to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings" - idk... it is this simple lyric yet on a lot of levels is interesting: the pseudo vegetarian, that argument that only humans matter that kind of started with rationalism. It's a simple lyric yet has some kind of deep/intriguing discussion possibilities.

I'm not sure how much I buy this. On In Utero, I think the lyrics of Dumb are pretty clear. Milk It, not so much. I don't know what he's talking about in that song. In fact, I always thought the line was 'Don't staaaaaaaaaay.' But when reading up on In Utero to prepare this ADP, I found out the line is actually 'Doll steeeeeeeeeeak.' Doll steak? Hmm. I guess since kids pretend dolls are alive, they can 'kill them and make them into steak.'

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

CA Dreamin — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:17:32 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 03/24/2017 20:17

Gowi wrote:

Nirvana's weakest album if you ask me, but it has a lot of good ideas and its in no way bad. But that's just my taste, I guess. Nirvana was at their best when they were writing wailing noise-punk.

I like Nirvana in their adolescent working class angst full of rage and frustration; fast, sloppy, and fun.

Bleach is a noise rock record at its heart (which is why it rules, by the way). My favorite songs on Nevermind and In Utero are the ones that have that character, that energy, and that aggression. I do think In Utero is pretty dull...I listen to Nirvana for sloppy anarchic guitar lines and rigid horned aggression...songs that have actual BITE and are not detached from that energy that made early Nirvana so utterly fantastic.

That's great if you prefer the raw, sloppy noise-rock of Bleach and Incesticide, but we're not here to argue opinions. The truth is Nirvana was more than that. And while we hear traces of that energy on Nevermind and In Utero, we also hear some polished/conventional songs on Bleach and Incestide that foreshadowed what was to come (Blew, About a Girl, Love Buzz, Dive).

So why did Nirvana take the change in direction from Bleach to Nevermind? Is it possible they were bored with that sound and scene? Were they simply growing as musicians and following their artistic instincts? I would say yes to those questions, and I think Nirvana also wanted to expand their audience (which they inadvertently over-succeeded).

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 02:15:49 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 06:15

albumceleste wrote:

Nice job there. Thumbs up.

My two cents in a hurry:

Quote:

If your interpretations of the songs are different than mine, do share.

I alwaysheard a very clear denounce against record label contracts in Pennyroyal Tea (penny royalty/ stealing the life inside of me)

Quote:

On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics?

I think a stream of consioussness flow and fragmented lyrics are very common. Many times hiding real meaning under unconsiouss disguises and many times meaning nothing at all.

Well said - helpful insight.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 02:13:45 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 06:13

If your interpretations of the songs are different than mine, do share.

Already did 😄

On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics? Was it simply a way of announcing how he's a different person from the Nevermind sessions, or are the topics somehow connected?

I don't think Kurt ever wrote really coherent flowing lyrics. I don't think there's much to gleem from it other than he talked about two topics in the same song. Nothing new in my opinion.

Does All Apologies foreshadow his suicide? Personally I'm not sure, due to the long time between the song's writing and his suicide. But if you think certainly yes or no, please explain.

I think it talks more about a terrible relationship he had with Courtney (which is funny cause I think he dedicated this song to her on a live recording). But that's just my opinion. I don't think this is a suicide apology or whatever.

Nobody expected the singles of Nevermind to become the radio sensations they did because by pre-1991 standards, they weren't radio-friendly...too dark, too distorted, too heavy, too angry, too depressing, etc. But as it turned out, those songs, along with several other 1991 hits, helped change what radio-friendliness meant. With that in mind, was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?

This is a difficult question because mainstream is a pretty loose term. In one since it is absolutely mainstream - it sold millions of copies. In another since, it was anti-corporate rock and corporate was mainstream, so in that since Nirvana was always the punk rock attitude and was always anti-establishment, etc.

Unlike Nevermind, where in hindsight nearly every track could have been a radio single, In Utero greatly wavered between the conventional and the unconventional, such as tracks 2, 4, 8, 10, and 11. But why are these songs juxtaposed to radio-friendly songs like Heart-Shaped Box, Dumb, and All Apologies?

Eh - I don't think nearly every track on Nevermind could be a single. But I get what you are getting at. And to answer the question, I think I remember seeing an interview where Nirvana wanted to get back to their harsher sound, what they started with Bleach. They didn't like the overall polished sound of Nevermind.

Furthermore, In Utero constantly jumping around in mood, theme, and song structure can be a valid criticism - it's inconsistent. But perhaps that's the beauty of it because it reflected the personality/mindset of its artist? As an album, how do you feel about it?

I already stated I liked the album. But to why it is "inconsistent" I think largely had to do with drug abuse and the diffuculty Nirvana was having at the time with mental health/etc. I think they even had a shrink come to the studio (something I heard and haven't verified). But kind of like the white album, I like the differing things going on... and really for me it isn't that one song sounds like this and one song sounds like that - I think it had more to do with the differing production styles of Albini and Litt.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:37:53 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 05:37

Oh another thing: I typically don't like noise rock or super lo-fi stuff. Nirvana helped me see how that aesthetic actually has value. Just wanted to add that.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:36:04 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 05:36

Oh and you reminded me of something I wanted to say but forgot.

Nirvana is amazing because they are just pure emotion. They are musically the most emotional group (I think) I've listened to since Shostakovitch (meaning I feel like they mastered the emotional aspect Kant talked about being the point of music... it is emotional first.) Oh also meaning since probably 1950s music.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:32:59 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 05:32

Oh wow... obviously totally missed those Gowi. Thanks for finding it all for us. Appreciate your comments.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:30:54 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 05:30

Ok first off - Kurt Cobain HATED it when people tried to interpret his songs. It was like, look, I make the lyrics up on the spot and it doesn't even matter... it's just words. But as a listener listens, they often want meanings. So I suppose that's what is happening here. And it's fun... I feel like he was almost like an impressionist painter with his lyrics - only "painting" the light reflections, not the details. In another way too, it's like this form of poetry of one liners that sometimes seem it doesn't match at all. I think my favorite lyric is something I feel this pseudo vegetarian friend of mine has because she only eats fish for meat: "It's ok to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings" - idk... it is this simple lyric yet on a lot of levels is interesting: the pseudo vegetarian, that argument that only humans matter that kind of started with rationalism. It's a simple lyric yet has some kind of deep/intriguing discussion possibilities.

I feel like I watched a documentary about this album and maybe it was... oh, I remember, it is an episode where Foo Fighters did their Sonic Highways thing and the song Something From Nothing was produced by Albini. Anyway, interesting stuff about this album in this one (probably can find it free somewhere, but this is what I could find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlP5lPggk_I)

Also interesting is the Scott Litt vs Albini productions. Totally agree with the Scott Litt recordings and love how Kurt worshiped R.E.M. (Scott was longtime producer of theirs).

Serve The Servants: 100/100
"I tried hard to have a father; But instead I had a dad"

Scentless Apprentice: 100/100
"You can't fire me because I quit"
Reminds me a bit of the Violent Femmes "this will go down on your permanent record."

Heart-Shaped Box 100/100
"Cut myself on angel hair and baby's breath ... Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back"

When this song came out, my father was terminally ill. Somehow I related to the eat your cancer/sickness theme this song had. I was 10 years old.

Rape Me: 100/100
This actually was a single and this is quoted from wikipeida about it: Kurt Cobain conceived "Rape Me" as an anti-rape song. He told Spin, "It's like she's saying, 'Rape me, go ahead, rape me, beat me. You'll never kill me. I'll survive this and I'm gonna fucking rape you one of these days and you won't even know it.'"

Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge On Seattle:100/100
"I miss the comfort in being sad"
I love the sliding guitar in this. I know it is simple, but there's just something about it. Anyone who has suffered from depression or socially is a bit awkward can understand that lyric well.

Dumb: 100/100
"I'm not like them
But I can pretend
The sun is gone
But I have a light"

Anyone understanding child abuse and the self medication of drug abuse can understand that while this song is a bit simple (what Cobain was master of), it actually is just heartbreaking and possibly one of Nirvana's best songs.

Very Ape: 100/100
"If you ever need anything please don't hesitate
to ask someone else first
I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive."

To me it's almost like speaking to - hey, we are all human. Stop trying to be this academic. You too really don't know anything, even if you pretend to.

Milk It: 90/100
"I own my own pet virus"

I'm actually not sure why I didn't give this a higher score. Possibly due to the "guitar solo"... I mean I'm all for unconventional guitar solos, but some how this one was just the equivalent of I purposely don't even want to put effort into it. And I guess that is unique... but not my cup of tea. Still vocally very interesting. The dynamics are very interesting, and the bass is killer. I love how he almost laughs at 3:13... like a bit maniacal or possibly someone was doing something funny and he was trying to focus (I've been in the studio and well, yeah, people sometimes try and mess with you as you are cutting).

Pennyroyal Tea:100/100
"Give me a Leonard Cohen afterworld
So I can sigh eternally"

Ok... I forgot who said it, but mind exploded when they explained Penny Royalty. I know, I freak out at magic tricks too... (not really but see Aziz Ansari). Always was curious about that lyric and it is so obvious now.

Radio Friendly Unit Shifter: 80/100
"I love you for what I am not
I did not want what I have got"

I love the song title. The initial riff/emotion I like, but the wanking around... eh... I don't know. I get Nirvana does this on purpose and does it well with the hidden track on Nevermind, but for this song, idk... it just didn't work for me.

Tourette's: 85/100

Moderate Rock... hahaha. Probably got dinged because while I like the concept, it just felt like they farted and this song was there... I like the riff they use for the chorus.

All Apologies:
"I wish I was like you
Easily amused"

This song for me is the equivilant of "In My Life" by The Beatles... Sure Nirvana has more complex/intriguing songs, but this really hits at the heart and is possibly their best songwriting. The unplugged version is great and I used to prefer it, but I like them equally now.

Looks like that basically averages to a 95/100. So obviously for me, song by song, this is a fantastic album.

I think someone said something like I grew up past this teenage angst phase. Yeah that's cause for you, these emotions were probably only relatable while going through puberty. Someone dealing with child abuse/neglect, self medicating drug abuse, social anxiety due to the previous issues and then becoming a world famous rockstar... idk... I don't think they are just teenage angst like the whole made up grunge sell your soul for "cool" music scene which exploded at this time. Teenage angst and grunge... blah blah blah... I hate those terms when talking about Nirvana.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

mickilennial — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:57:14 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/24/2017 04:57

Here are some things I've also said:

Quote:

Bleach is a noise rock record at its heart (which is why it rules, by the way), which is obvious when you look and see they did a split with The Jesus Lizard as well as think about their influences. My favorite songs on Nevermind and In Utero are the ones that have that character, that energy, and that aggression. I do think In Utero is pretty dull, but I understand why the record is lauded now as it does have neat ideas and backgrounds about it but I find it so utterly lifeless sometimes and that is NOT why I listen to Nirvana. I listen to Nirvana for sloppy anarchic guitar lines and rigid horned aggression... songs that have actual BITE and are not detached from that energy that made early Nirvana so utterly fantastic.

Quote:

Serve the Servants. Heart-Shaped Box. Rape Me. Dumb. All Apologies. Gallons of Rubbing Alcohol Flow Through the Strip.

That is at least half of a 12/13 track album that has a drudging slow tempo, non-aggressive, kind of uninteresting pace. I am not deaf as which you indirectly implied due to how I perceive and enjoy the record. I admit the faster songs and more aggressive variations are about 50% of the album (and are very good, by the way) are worth hearing; but if half of the record puts me to sleep or doesn't invoke anything that makes me want to hear it frequently then it is boring and I don't appreciate being presumed to be hearing a "different" album.

Quote:

I think my thing is that I prefer Nirvana the inverse of being mature (I also think they were more interesting when they were more raw). Now, don't get me wrong their slower songs aren't bad even by my means and I can appreciate In Utero in bursts so I don't mean to imply I dislike it or hate it; I just never understood the huge critical adoration for it if I make any sense. I like my noise rock/punk bands loud, fast, and emotive.

Yeah, critical mediums online and offline cite In Utero as the "critical darling" for Nirvana even if they recognize Nevermind as being the influential/most important record of the two.

I don't mean it's lifeless lyrically, so maybe I should've used a different word. I feel like half of In Utero is dull and not very interesting (to me) sonically. Like Tyler stated, I like Nirvana in their adolescent working class angst full of rage and frustration; fast, sloppy, and fun. I don't want slower moving songs with personal introspection, maturity, and growth.

Quote:

But I think that’s the point with the first two Nirvana records and it is part of the reason I love Bleach so much. It’s very very dirty and I think it works pretty well for that, after all I’m not listening to a band that cites influences such as Celtic Frost, Coffin Break, Green River, Melvins, Killing Joke, and so on for it’s “pristine” guitar sound or production. I listen to it for the grime, the dirt, and the edge it has that Cobain really knows how to invoke. I mean, yeah I do prefer his contemporaries (Duane Denison, Buzz Osborne, Mark Arm, Kat Bjelland, etc.) but despite me not listening to Nirvana that often anymore I do think Cobain’s style has a lot going for it whether it is sloppy and noisy or soft and trudging. I just happen to prefer the former over the latter.

Quote:

I think that was a lot of my points when I was discussing my preference earlier in the thread. I think Bleach has a lot more bite, venom, and energy than In Utero and Nevermind do. It’s aggressive and bleeds the kind of angst that gets me excited. It’s what made the noisy part of the grunge movement/scene so interesting for me. I just resonate the less subdued nature of it; it’s a youthful punch that I find lacking on later releases.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:34:24 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 04:34

Gowi wrote:

I feel like I’ve talked about all three Nirvana LPs in detail enough when they come up in the AOTW, so I’m not sure if I can invest myself much in discussing In Utero, unfortunately. My opinions on it are pretty concise and clear if you look through the threads of the past. :wink:

For those interested in what I found Gowi said:

Quote:

Nirvana's weakest album if you ask me, but it has a lot of good ideas and its in no way bad. But that's just my taste, I guess. Nirvana was at their best when they were writing wailing noise-punk.

For those interested in past discussions for Album of the Day:

https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...mp;start=0

https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...p;start=10

https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...p;start=10

Also listening to it now... so probably will have something from me soon (but likely who cares... hahaha)

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

mickilennial — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:11:24 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/24/2017 04:11

I feel like I’ve talked about all three Nirvana LPs in detail enough when they come up in the AOTW, so I’m not sure if I can invest myself much in discussing In Utero, unfortunately. My opinions on it are pretty concise and clear if you look through the threads of the past. 😉

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

RoundTheBend — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:15:04 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/24/2017 03:15

Hayden wrote:

Not sure how I missed this.

I haven't given In Utero a full listen in what must be over two years now... might give it a spin tonight and get back to this.

Me too!

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

Hayden — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:40:13 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/23/2017 20:40

Not sure how I missed this.

I haven't given In Utero a full listen in what must be over two years now... might give it a spin tonight and get back to this.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

CA Dreamin — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:25:40 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 03/23/2017 20:25

souplipton wrote:

So 'self-appointed judges' are both record label and the press. I can see that. I can totally see that.

souplipton wrote:

I don't think it specifically foreshadows his suicide anymore than any other song. He wrote the song long before his suicide, so I don't really think it has any specific message on the topic.

I don't think so either, but some fans have a theory. If anybody on BEA has a theory, I'd love to hear it.

souplipton wrote:

In Utero definitely wasn't a mainstream album. While I do believe that Nirvana was purposely going for a less mainstream sound on this album compared to Nevermind, I wouldn't call it anti-mainstream. It's definitely not Metal Machine Music, but it's not pop-rock either. Cobain was a big fan of the Pixies, and the eclectic mix of styles on In Utero reminds me somewhat of 1989's Doolittle. The variety of music on both albums is to me not a weakness of the album, but a strength. In Utero is my favourite Nirvana album, more willing to explore different aspects of the band's sound and more willing to take risks than the rest of the band's output.

I agree In Utero's mainstream and anti-mainstream tendencies, coupled with eclectic song structures, are a definitely a strength. What do you mean by taking risks?

souplipton wrote:

I think a lot of the difference in sound between the two albums can be traced to the change in producer. Butch Vig recorded Nevermind with more overdubbing, laying down multiple guitar tracks and double-tracking of vocals, giving it a cleaner sound. Steve Albini's music tends to be harsher and rawer, as he comes from a backgroup of hardcore punk and noise rock. His production technique also differs, as he records the band playing together, rather than separately. This produces less separation between the instrument tracks, and gives the music a feel closer to a live performance.

I don't know much about the the producers and their styles. But I do recall when I watched the VH1 documentary about the making of Nevermind, Kurt Cobain initially didn't want to double-track his voice. Butch Vig had to talk him into it. And what's funny is Butch talked Kurt into it by reminding him The Beatles used double-tracked vocals in most of their songs. That won the argument because Kurt was a huge Beatles fan with pop-rock sensibility. Flash-forward to the In Utero sessions, where Kurt wanted to distance the band from Nevermind, and Steve Albini made a logical choice as a producer based on how you describe his past/recording techniques. Still, pop-rock sensibility came through on tracks like Serve the Servants, Heart-Shaped Box, and especially Dumb.

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

souplipton — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 18:32:02 GMT

Author: souplipton

Posted: 03/22/2017 22:32

StreetSpirit wrote:

On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics? Was it simply a way of announcing how he's a different person from the Nevermind sessions, or are the topics somehow connected?

The line about "self-appointed judges" could possibly be about the media. Cobain was under a lot of scrutiny by the media since the release of Nevermind, The media investigated his personal life, including the divorce of his parents, which he references at the end of the song's chorus. The investigation into his parent's divorce would link the earlier lyrics to the lines about his father.

However, even without this link, I don't think it's that odd for him to be discussing two subjects in the song. Both subjects are something he wanted to distance himself from despite the relationship being forced on him, namely, his father and his record company. As well, his lyrics often don't focus on one topics, take Pennyroyal Tea for example.

StreetSpirit wrote:

Does All Apologies foreshadow his suicide? Personally I'm not sure, due to the long time between the song's writing and his suicide. But if you think certainly yes or no, please explain.

I don't think it specifically foreshadows his suicide anymore than any other song. He wrote the song long before his suicide, so I don't really think it has any specific message on the topic.

StreetSpirit wrote:

Was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?

StreetSpirit wrote:

Cobain was a big fan of the Pixies, and the eclectic mix of styles on In Utero reminds me somewhat of 1989's Doolittle. The variety of music on both albums is to me not a weakness of the album, but a strength. In Utero is my favourite Nirvana album, more willing to explore different aspects of the band's sound and more willing to take risks than the rest of the band's output.

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

I think something people rarely take into account when talking differences between In Utero and Nevermind are the producers. What do you think the Butch Vig vs. Steve Albini difference is? How did the recording influence the even more direct nature of the album?

Re: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

CA Dreamin — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 15:58:38 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 03/22/2017 19:58

albumceleste wrote:

Quote:

was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?

I was a teenager when this album came out. It wasn't anything unexpected. The thing was all over the Mtv 24/7
It wasn't the thing mom&dad would listen to but it wasn't anti-mainstream at all. It was just "alt".

Graeme2 wrote:

I remember leading up to the release of this record that stuff I was reading about what the record would sound like, had me thinking it was going to be recorded on a 4 track with loads of noise and really lo fi. I was expecting a cross between the first pavement album and psychocandy. So when it came out it sounded quite polished to me. It probably reflects how mixed up his mind was at the time.

I totally appreciate hearing from users old enough to remember when it came out (I was a little kid at the time). In Utero still sounds less polished than Nevermind, which Kurt wanted. But agreed, it didn't end up being a complete reversal from Nevermind.

So why wasn't In Utero 'recorded on a 4 track with loads of noise and really lo fi?' Was there a compromise between the record label and the band? Did it have something to with producer, Steve Albini, which brings up this user's question?

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

Or did have to do with artistic vision? Or maybe to some extent, money?