Best Ever Albums

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

RoundTheBend — Sun, 5 Nov 2017 14:27:42 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/05/2017 19:27

rkm wrote:

I was thinking about this today. I was reading about James Brown, and how in his development he began with songs, but by the 60's had abandoned traditional song structures and basically invented funk, where groove was everything.

So, not only has James Brown been sampled to death for the sake of hip-hop, he may be the originator of an aesthetic where melody is no longer first and foremost. Perhaps James Brown is the gateway drug to getting into rap music?

If you already like James Brown, then probably not. But if you really only listen to, for lack of better way to say it, white people music, then yes. Get into funk/soul music. Then again, I'm sure some would just listen to hip/hop and feel that same energy right away and just go with it.

I suppose a better question is what is it you object to? I think you mentioned harsh language as a hurdle. Sometimes, to be honest, that's what I love about rap music. They don't mince words at all. I can't remember who said it, but when I first heard Kendrick I felt like he talked about how big his dick was too much. I was actually really turned off by this dick ain't free. But then I realized it was talking about the exploitation of black men... whether from black women or just in general. The free jazz turned me off too, and then realized how genius it was.

I guess what I'm saying is sometimes it turns me off and then I realize what it really is saying and I get over it.

Are you saying you don't watch any rated R movies because of the content? I feel Tarantino films often turn me off because they are foul just to be in your face sometimes... like know real human reason like say a war movie or something, and that's a turn off for me. But if it is real... well then let life be truly represented.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

rkm — Sun, 5 Nov 2017 04:41:07 GMT

Author: rkm

Posted: 11/05/2017 09:41

sethmadsen wrote:

I feel like some of the energy is the same in funk as it is in rap.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

RoundTheBend — Sun, 5 Nov 2017 04:09:02 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/05/2017 09:09

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

I figure I should add this as background. In my life, I was exposed to hip hop at a pretty young age from a source that midwestern mostly white kids didn't usually experience. My mother, in her 50's now, still listens to and loves the hip hop of her era. Whodini, Grand Master Flash, Kurtis Blow and the like. So, hip hop in and of itself was never a problem. She didn't much care for the stuff with ribald lyrics, but she never detested it.

That's pretty cool. My dad's closest thing to hip-hop was probably the funk of Sly and the Family Stone, and while maybe you think that's not anywhere close, I feel like some of the energy is the same in funk as it is in rap.

My love for hip-hop/rap came from MTV of the 90s. Coolio, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Warren G, NWA, Ice Cube, and I guess Beastie Boys. Then it went to OutKast and few others.

The rest of my family detested it, along with country music. But I grew to really like it. Hearing hip-hop artists go from super simple and almost archaic sample sounds and lyrics to some of the most creative sounds/lyrics ever... well damn. It's been a trip. Hip-hop/rap imo has aged way better than most modern music forms.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

RoundTheBend — Sun, 5 Nov 2017 04:01:30 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/05/2017 09:01

babyBlueSedan wrote:

Sorry, I didn't realize till now you were quoting/addressing me.

I thought I was making this same point you are making.

I agree.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

RoundTheBend — Sun, 5 Nov 2017 03:49:43 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/05/2017 08:49

Skinny wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

Skinny wrote:

God, this thread is so BAWP-heavy.

People trying to defend hip-hop by using the most rockist hip-hop artists out there is depressing. "B..b..but Outkast, Kendrick, Wyclef, melody, things I understand". I realise that this thread is about trying to forge a path for middle-aged white guys to get into rap, but I could've predicted this entire conversation from the start.

Rapping over a sampled beat is the revolution in itself. Filling it with language and sentiments that make white people uncomfortable is the extension. Lots of great hip-hop has contained traditional rock ideas of melody, but the best hip-hop doesn't give a fuck. 'Shook Ones (part II)' makes no fucking concessions.

Look, Beethoven never wrote anything as great as Juicy J's 'Bandz a Make Her Dance', so step off, grandad.

If you are referring to me, I wasn't saying that rapping over a simple beat and that ONLY was bad. I mean rap started even without the beat. I've been in South Central and seen the street rappers get together. It was really impressive to hear those artists work rhythm, melody, and words in a very powerful way... without any beat/music. I was stating such art forms EXIST, and for rockist peeps, that often is the hurdle. So start with a gateway like the artist you mention how have melody, etc. They have a hard time getting to understand the lyrics/lack of melody, etc.

Anyway, you are right.

Also what is BAWP?

Dude, I'm not talking about you. Much love.

Likewise.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Graeme2 — Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:35:45 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 11/04/2017 20:35

Skinny wrote:

Rapping over a sampled beat is the revolution in itself. Filling it with language and sentiments that make white people uncomfortable is the extension.

Please elaborate on the language and sentiments part?

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Skinny — Sat, 4 Nov 2017 12:28:07 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/04/2017 16:28

sethmadsen wrote:

Skinny wrote:

Dude, I'm not talking about you. Much love.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Antonio-Pedro — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 22:11:24 GMT

Author: Antonio-Pedro

Posted: 11/04/2017 02:11

sethmadsen wrote:

Also what is BAWP?

It's an old story
Boring Ass white people I guess

maybe
Broncos are the worst P
Batman and Wonder person

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

RoundTheBend — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 20:54:41 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/04/2017 00:54

Skinny wrote:

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Skinny — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 15:15:15 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/03/2017 19:15

I saw Lethal Bizzle on Top of the Pops and life changed.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Tha1ChiefRocka — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:44:08 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 11/03/2017 17:44

I figure I should add this as background. In my life, I was exposed to hip hop at a pretty young age from a source that midwestern mostly white kids didn't usually experience. My mother, in her 50's now, still listens to and loves the hip hop of her era. Whodini, Grand Master Flash, Kurtis Blow and the like. So, hip hop in and of itself was never a problem. She didn't much care for the stuff with ribald lyrics, but she never detested it.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Anonymous — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 12:14:46 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/03/2017 16:14

Puncture Repair wrote:

I grew up with The Beatles, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin as I'm sure so many of us did. Hip Hop was, and still is, a dirty word in our household. 'It's all swearing and bitches and hoes' and I held onto that. I loved Pink Floyd because of the huge sounds and the cohesive experience. I'd be lying if I said My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy didn't act as the gate way - it had that huge sound and cohesive experience. I never really enjoyed it, but it made things 'click'. 'Gorgeous' is the first Hip Hop song I can remember actually enjoying, and it's because of it's dirty guitar sample - I loved the melody. I listened to that song over and over, with the volume way down low in case my parents heard it was rap. Not like I thought I'd get disowned or anything, just that they'd think something and keep it hidden internally.

I listened to good kid on my way to work for the first time in 2012 because it was getting so much attention. I remember cringing through the first few songs. Singing about bitches not killing his vibe? His dick being as big as the Eiffel tower? Jesus. But then I honestly don't remember as big a musical revelation I've had since hearing 'The Art of Freestyle', I hung onto every word and listened close - and I loved it. It was like poetry for the real world. The melody didn't matter, it was suddenly about time and place and rhythm. Then the rest just flowed.

If someone forced LL Cool J's 'Radio' on me and told me if I couldn't enjoy rapping over a sampled beat then I didn't deserve rap, I would have written the whole thing off - I could barely get through the entire album just two years ago. Music is such an abstract medium that how we grow up around it has such a powerful influence on how we judge it. Equally, so many of us grow up hearing westernized pentatonic scales, that we struggle to appreciate how different cultures approach an order of melody. I'm sure all of us here are guilty of that.

Out the blue the other day my Dad asked if I'd heard Illmatic. He said it reminded him of Marvin Gaye's 'What's Going On'. I imagine because that's something musically he appreciates and understands, but he said he couldn't enjoy Nas. I happened to see he had NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton' in his collection just the other day. That made me smile, because I know he still hates it, and it's not the first hip hop record I'd recommend, but because of me - at least he's trying.

Nice post, but the word guilty is way too strong. I’ll never feel guilty of not liking any exotic culture (or conversely proud of liking some). Besides, hip hop is very western.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Anonymous — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 04:17:24 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/03/2017 08:17

I grew up with The Beatles, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin as I'm sure so many of us did. Hip Hop was, and still is, a dirty word in our household. 'It's all swearing and bitches and hoes' and I held onto that. I loved Pink Floyd because of the huge sounds and the cohesive experience. I'd be lying if I said My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy didn't act as the gate way - it had that huge sound and cohesive experience. I never really enjoyed it, but it made things 'click'. 'Gorgeous' is the first Hip Hop song I can remember actually enjoying, and it's because of it's dirty guitar sample - I loved the melody. I listened to that song over and over, with the volume way down low in case my parents heard it was rap. Not like I thought I'd get disowned or anything, just that they'd think something and keep it hidden internally.

I listened to good kid on my way to work for the first time in 2012 because it was getting so much attention. I remember cringing through the first few songs. Singing about bitches not killing his vibe? His dick being as big as the Eiffel tower? Jesus. But then I honestly don't remember as big a musical revelation I've had since hearing 'The Art of Freestyle', I hung onto every word and listened close - and I loved it. It was like poetry for the real world. The melody didn't matter, it was suddenly about time and place and rhythm. Then the rest just flowed.

If someone forced LL Cool J's 'Radio' on me and told me if I couldn't enjoy rapping over a sampled beat then I didn't deserve rap, I would have written the whole thing off - I could barely get through the entire album just two years ago. Music is such an abstract medium that how we grow up around it has such a powerful influence on how we judge it. Equally, so many of us grow up hearing westernized pentatonic scales, that we struggle to appreciate how different cultures approach an order of melody. I'm sure all of us here are guilty of that.

Out the blue the other day my Dad asked if I'd heard Illmatic. He said it reminded him of Marvin Gaye's 'What's Going On'. I imagine because that's something musically he appreciates and understands, but he said he couldn't enjoy Nas. I happened to see he had NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton' in his collection just the other day. That made me smile, because I know he still hates it, and it's not the first hip hop record I'd recommend, but because of me - at least he's trying.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Skinny — Fri, 3 Nov 2017 03:21:53 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/03/2017 07:21

God, this thread is so BAWP-heavy.

People trying to defend hip-hop by using the most rockist hip-hop artists out there is depressing. "B..b..but Outkast, Kendrick, Wyclef, melody, things I understand". I realise that this thread is about trying to forge a path for middle-aged white guys to get into rap, but I could've predicted this entire conversation from the start.

Rapping over a sampled beat is the revolution in itself. Filling it with language and sentiments that make white people uncomfortable is the extension. Lots of great hip-hop has contained traditional rock ideas of melody, but the best hip-hop doesn't give a fuck. 'Shook Ones (part II)' makes no fucking concessions.

Look, Beethoven never wrote anything as great as Juicy J's 'Bandz a Make Her Dance', so step off, grandad.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Anonymous — Thu, 2 Nov 2017 15:24:22 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/02/2017 19:24

Yann wrote:

DJTommy wrote:

Yann wrote:

Black or white, hip hop is just random dissenting talk plastered over other people's music. Can be nice with an appropriate sample or a sung chorus, but nothing as memorable as Beethoven, Ella Fitzgerald, the Beatles or the Rolling Stones.
It's like techno music, if you will: a curiosity in musical history.
Only tunes remains.

What exactly do you mean by calling rapping “random dissenting talk”. Hip hop is by far the most lyrical genre of music there is. I can name lots of hip hop songs with lyrics that are miles ahead of anything The Beatles or The Rolling Stones have ever written. If you hate sampling so much, I recommend some of the biggest hip hop albums ever, that barely uses sampling at all, in favour of live instrumentation, like Kendrick Lamar’s To Pimp a Butterfly and lots of OutKast’s stuff. And caling the biggest genre in the world “a curiosity in musical history” is some bullshit. Have you ever tried to dig into hip hop?

That was excessive, I agree (I was responding to an agressive comment). I like hip hop and I do love samples (earlier on this thread, I recommended a YouTube video of a DJ exploring samples of albums). On the other hand, i'm being put off by the atmosphere and values of recent hip hop videos (babyBlueSedan answered on that above)

About the music video thing. Yeah sure, there is a lot of bad ones, but I like to focus on all the good (‘cause those are the ones I care about). There has been allot of rock videos over the years objectifying women, but there’s also been lots of good stuff too. Allot of videos from big hip hop acts are thought provoking, or at least not overly offensive.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Anonymous — Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:15:47 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/02/2017 17:15

DJTommy wrote:

Yann wrote:

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Anonymous — Thu, 2 Nov 2017 09:59:15 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/02/2017 13:59

Yann wrote:

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

babyBlueSedan — Thu, 2 Nov 2017 09:08:28 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 11/02/2017 13:08

sethmadsen wrote:

Part of the reason why I love Wyclef's album Carnival is it is full of great/chill rap, but more importantly, full of great melodies and actual songs.

I like me some great melodies in hip hop as much as anybody, but maybe that's not the point of the genre? Or of techno for that matter (which I admit I'm not a huge fan of but I've really been digging The Field lately). Like I mentioned in another post, my love for hip hop started to grow when I stopped looking for the same things I looked for in rock music. The point of having different genres is so that you can hear different sounds when you're in different moods. When I want nice melodies, I listen to rock or R&B. When I want in your face attitude, clever wordplay, sick flows, or hypnotizing beats, I go for hip hop.

In regards to Yann's comment: yes, a lot of hip hop songs focus on sex and lavish lifestyles. But not all of them. Common was already mentioned, and there's a whole world of conscious hip hop out there for anyone who's not into that. There's also abstract hip hop, with lyrics that are just pure poetry and don't even focus on a theme. I've never understood why there's a trope of "hip hop is all women, drugs, and violence" when AC/DC and the Rolling Stones are some of the most popular rock bands out there. AC/DC have a song where a woman giving oral sex is compared to a dog being given a bone. Under My Thumb is a fairly misogynistic song. Can you imagine if there was a genre called "conscious rock" because we needed to break off the rock musicians who were "OK" or "safe" to listen to? Rock fans seem to have no problem listening to these songs because "it's just a song", but apparently hip hop songs are more than that.

And I don't see why egotism in art is a bad thing - isn't a lot of art created to show off the creator's talents? Also Lennon and Jagger had pretty big egos but I'll stop beating that dead horse.

Here's a video from this year from one of the most exciting new hip hop groups. I don't see any idolization of woman, just a lot of fun, lyrics about self love, and a verse criticizing rape culture:

Link

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

Anonymous — Thu, 2 Nov 2017 08:28:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/02/2017 12:28

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

Yann wrote:

Hip hop, at least in America, has eclipsed any other kind of popular music as the dominant cultural influence. Hip hop is not just music, it's a culture; clothes, lifestyle, art, etc.

It's much more than a curiosity, and will continue to grow, evolve, and influence nearly every aspect of the music industry.

Let's hope that there is more in this culture than what we can see in music videos then: adoration of the golden calf, women as object, egotistic art, etc.

Re: Design a path to get a middle-aged white guy into hip-hop

RoundTheBend — Thu, 2 Nov 2017 01:25:34 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/02/2017 05:25

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

Yann wrote:

Also this is already true... since probably 2008, but started in the 90s.