Best Ever Albums

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

CharlieBarley — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:19:15 GMT

Author: CharlieBarley

Posted: 02/11/2018 00:19

Okay

I have just re-listened to Supper's Ready and I looked at the lyrics and some interpretations of the song's meaning.
Now I still don't rate it as a tune. Musically it holds little interest for me.
But what I found was that the lyrics, and the story behind them, and the way the band used to interpret the song live, IS very interesting to say the least.

To say I was surprised is an understatement.

I just wish the music matched the cleverness of the lyrics. I mean later Genesis songs (I don't know the albums) I find appealing musically and lyrically.

If Supper's Ready was a poem I would admire it. I DO admire the lyrics now I have read them and know some of the backstory.

Just thought I would mention this. I don't want to appear like a complete Luddite.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

mickilennial — Fri, 9 Feb 2018 05:30:35 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 02/09/2018 10:30

RockyRaccoon wrote:

AAL2014 wrote:

I could be wrong but I think Phil's first real use of that was in 1980 on Peter Gabriel's 3rd solo album (Melt).

If there is anyone who has more knowledge on that, I would love to find out. What is it called? Gated Reverb?

Yea, it's called gated reverb. First instance I know of Collins using it is on Melt, but there is an instance of it being used slightly earlier:

Link

Funnily enough, when Eric Clapton covered that song in the 80s, Collins actually played drums on it.

XTC used it on this album as well

Drums And Wires by XTC

Link

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 8 Feb 2018 10:56:37 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 02/08/2018 15:56

AAL2014 wrote:

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

AAL2014 — Thu, 8 Feb 2018 10:48:05 GMT

Author: AAL2014

Posted: 02/08/2018 15:48

bobbyb5 wrote:

I love that echo-y drum thing Phil Collins did on some of his solo records. He should have done it on every song. Lol. I loved hearing that. It was awesome.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 8 Feb 2018 08:25:57 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 02/08/2018 13:25

For me, it's Peter Gabriel-era Genesis easily. I love prog rock and Peter Gabriel-era Genesis did it better than most bands. Selling England By The Pound, Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme, it's great stuff.

That being said, I've also been a defender of Phil Collins-era Genesis. Wind & Wuthering and A Trick Of The Tail are both great prog albums, and even when they shifted to pop music, it still wasn't bad. It wasn't nearly as good, and while some albums are pretty bad, some are actually pretty solid.

Invisible Touch is just a fun, catchy album, I've always thought We Can't Dance never got the respect it deserves, nor did their self-titled album. So I'll defend Phil Collins-era Genesis when people say it's all garbage, but give me Peter Gabriel Genesis any day.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

RoundTheBend — Thu, 8 Feb 2018 00:10:09 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 02/08/2018 05:10

Stover75 wrote:

Here's a spanner in the works.

I have listened to most of the big Gabriel Genesis albums and he has a good voice and is intelligent and creative.
But they do absolutely nothing for me, perhaps Foxtrot aside which I find slightly appealing.
Call me a Luddite but I find Gabriel's work with Genesis to be pretentious, arty-farty, boring and tuneless.
If we are talking about prog rock give me Pink Floyd and King Crimson any day (and Van der Graaf Generator if they are prog, I dunno).

I hate pretentiousness for its own sake. That's why I can't bear to listen to Gabriel era Genesis,
and its so terribly middle class. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that per se, I'm lower middle class myself, but it just seems like some sort of exclusive club or something, his music then: Genesis and Yes were both guilty of this. I love what the punks did in trying to dismantle all that poncey side of prog, kinda smashing it all up in the mid to late Seventies.

Don't get me wrong there are some good prog songs, even I will admit that Supper's Ready is just okay. Not terrible. But I prefer Gabriel's solo career. I like his solo stuff. Most of it. It's more straightforward and he has some great tunes. I'm not hating on Gabriel, just his work with Genesis.

Give me Phil Collins' Genesis hits anyday. I like most of the numbers I know by Collins-era Genesis. Follow You Follow Me, That's All, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Land of Confusion and Jesus He Knows Me are great songs. Even when they venture into Dad Rock territory they are still good under Collins. And Collins-era Genesis were more financially successful. Much more. Okay that's not always a sign of pure quality otherwise Nickelback would be in the BEA Top 100 lol. But it says something.

Rant over.

Well said.

Gabriel solo work seems to have moved past that? Like the album So?

But yes, I'll be honest, I'm a bit bored with Gabriel era Genesis, even if it is "technically" good.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

bobbyb5 — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 21:47:16 GMT

Author: bobbyb5

Posted: 02/08/2018 02:47

I love that echo-y drum thing Phil Collins did on some of his solo records. He should have done it on every song. Lol. I loved hearing that. It was awesome.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

CharlieBarley — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 21:35:10 GMT

Author: CharlieBarley

Posted: 02/08/2018 02:35

Here's a spanner in the works.

I have listened to most of the big Gabriel Genesis albums and he has a good voice and is intelligent and creative.
But they do absolutely nothing for me, perhaps Foxtrot aside which I find slightly appealing.
Call me a Luddite but I find Gabriel's work with Genesis to be pretentious, arty-farty, boring and tuneless.
If we are talking about prog rock give me Pink Floyd and King Crimson any day (and Van der Graaf Generator if they are prog, I dunno).

I hate pretentiousness for its own sake. That's why I can't bear to listen to Gabriel era Genesis,
and its so terribly middle class. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that per se, I'm lower middle class myself, but it just seems like some sort of exclusive club or something, his music then: Genesis and Yes were both guilty of this. I love what the punks did in trying to dismantle all that poncey side of prog, kinda smashing it all up in the mid to late Seventies.

Don't get me wrong there are some good prog songs, even I will admit that Supper's Ready is just okay. Not terrible. But I prefer Gabriel's solo career. I like his solo stuff. Most of it. It's more straightforward and he has some great tunes. I'm not hating on Gabriel, just his work with Genesis.

Give me Phil Collins' Genesis hits anyday. I like most of the numbers I know by Collins-era Genesis. Follow You Follow Me, That's All, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Land of Confusion and Jesus He Knows Me are great songs. Even when they venture into Dad Rock territory they are still good under Collins. And Collins-era Genesis were more financially successful. Much more. Okay that's not always a sign of pure quality otherwise Nickelback would be in the BEA Top 100 lol. But it says something.

Rant over.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

Anonymous — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 21:06:54 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/08/2018 02:06

Temporary33 wrote:

Most people here are gonna say gabriel, but honestly, I really like collins body of work both with and without genesis and ultimately think it's preferable about gabriel's body of work.

Yeah. Solsbury Hill was the only thing that I thought was really great by him.
And Games Without Frontiers. Other than that, his music was kind of a drag.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

Anonymous — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 20:59:40 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/08/2018 01:59

I think most people started objecting to Genesis after the Gabriel era, but I didn't particularly object to Phil Collins until his solo career. Although even then he had a couple tracks that I liked. Not too many though.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

AwaitingAndrew — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 18:34:30 GMT

Author: AwaitingAndrew

Posted: 02/07/2018 23:34

Lachapelle wrote:

I'm curious though for those of you who voted for Collins, have you actually listened to their entire discography?
And if so, what album stands out the most to you? That is, what is your favourite Collins-Genesis album..?

Yes, and I love both as Genesis frontman and as solo artists, but I think these two albums, released in the same year no less, are masterpieces:

A Trick Of The Tail by Genesis

Wind And Wuthering by Genesis

Steve Hackett... always the most overlooked member of this band. (Also, I really love 1980's Duke as well.)

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

paladisiac — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 17:59:54 GMT

Author: paladisiac

Posted: 02/07/2018 22:59

Lastings wrote:

really just asking the question do you like Prog Rock better than pop rock.

EXCEPT for A Trick Of The Tail by Genesis, which was still strong with the prog-rock force. The next two albums started the slow transition from prog rock to pop rock through art rock (if that makes sense).

I think it's fair to compare A Trick Of The Tail by Genesis with Selling England By The Pound by Genesis, albums on opposite sides of The Lamb, if you want to compare their prog rock approaches as front men. Both pretty solid prog rock albums.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

Lastings — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 17:34:21 GMT

Author: Lastings

Posted: 02/07/2018 22:34

really not a fair question. really just asking the question do you like Prog Rock better than pop rock.

That said, Collins Genesis had some really great tracks. Mama, That's All, Hold on my heart, No Son of Mine. I mean, this is a great pop band. No where near as creative or exploratory as 70's Genesis. but, they were sharp.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

craola — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 16:41:22 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 02/07/2018 21:41

AAL2014 wrote:

And I kinda wish they would have kept it that way on Selling England. I like the chorus of More Fool Me but it's so lifeless to start with. Very low point on that album.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

AAL2014 — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 15:24:52 GMT

Author: AAL2014

Posted: 02/07/2018 20:24

DJTommy wrote:

Phil works better behind the drum kit TBH

And I kinda wish they would have kept it that way on Selling England. I like the chorus of More Fool Me but it's so lifeless to start with. Very low point on that album.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

mickilennial — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 15:15:06 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 02/07/2018 20:15

I wish Phil wrote better albums in the end; like, I have no issues with the progressive pop lean but the works he put out just don't keep up with the standards they set as a group in the Gabriel-era.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

Anonymous — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 15:00:03 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 02/07/2018 20:00

Phil works better behind the drum kit TBH

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

bobbyb5 — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:36:39 GMT

Author: bobbyb5

Posted: 02/07/2018 19:36

Lachapelle wrote:

Well the voting went exactly as I thought it would.. Looks like the clear winner is Gabriel era Genesis.

I'm curious though for those of you who voted for Collins, have you actually listened to their entire discography?
And if so, what album stands out the most to you? That is, what is your favourite Collins-Genesis album..?

Abacab I like best, even though I voted for the Peter Gabriel.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

bobbyb5 — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:28:28 GMT

Author: bobbyb5

Posted: 02/07/2018 19:28

I picked Peter Gabriel, but it also got me thinking about which songs the Phil Collins Genesis did. And I realized there was actually quite a few tracks that I like by them too. Especially Abacab, Turn It On Again and Invisible Touch. I really like those and several others also.

Re: Genesis: Gabriel vs Collins

Lachapelle — Wed, 7 Feb 2018 12:50:14 GMT

Author: Lachapelle

Posted: 02/07/2018 17:50

Well the voting went exactly as I thought it would.. Looks like the clear winner is Gabriel era Genesis.

I'm curious though for those of you who voted for Collins, have you actually listened to their entire discography?
And if so, what album stands out the most to you? That is, what is your favourite Collins-Genesis album..?