Best Ever Albums

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

LedZep — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:45:55 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 10/10/2018 21:45

sethmadsen wrote:

Just this. One of the best movies and movie quotes ever 😁

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 02:03:19 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/10/2018 06:03

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Haha, no worries 😁

I know youre basically kidding but do know that just because I feel Bono/U2 is a far cry from Tim Buckley or Schubert (and so on), and some steps down from Talk Talk's peak or Bark Psychosis' Hex, doesnt mean I dont think some of their work is superb, such as Joshua Tree. Its a truly great album. I simply don't feel its one of the most creative, profound, emotionally affecting and transcendent works in all of human history -- or even close really. There are echelons -- expressively, depth conveyed, and so forth -- between Beethoven's 9th or Mahler's 9th or Verdi's Requiem (etc) and U2 or whoever. Upon experiencing a work, I simply show these differences by their placement in my ratings scale (or at least a meticulous attempt at doing so).

Of course. How they speak to me might be different (meaning I really do get a similar emotional/mental high off a good chunk of their work), but would I say they are the culmination of the most complex/powerful emotional and mental works of art ever, no. And of course I'm pretty sure The Doors or VU don't respect that honor either. But, yes, I was absolutely kidding. And yes, it is good to have a comparison/bench mark, especially in the subjective, as things are often incredibly relative. It's even more difficult to compare something written hundreds of years apart, imo.

Then there's the mentality of do you dig it or not and nothing else matters (a bit of reader response theory).

Anyway, we respectfully disagree on some small elements, but I think we do agree on a good chunk of it, which is great. I just thought I'd tease you for defending the Joshua Tree is all :). Thanks for playing along.

Yeah man, no prob, you too. Always interesting 😎

Re: The Doors/VU and Nico ... disagree, as you know (there arent too many other rock albums that are as much a creative and expressive touchstone/culmination of the genre as these two) ... Particularly disagree if we are using a description where "complexity" isn't axiomatic (which I dont think it should be). They're nowhere near as complex as Wagner or Mahler etc... Efficiency, or saying a lot with less, is also significant though.

Re: comparing hundreds of years apart ... I agree that it can be more challenging the more dissimilar they are ... from my criteria page: "In such a determination, the overall significance of the experience (its qualitative peaks and consistency and sum impact) is what is being compared to other works, not necessarily a direct comparison in content, especially if the content is dissimilar."

The mentality you mention is certainly a majority of society. Guess it just depends on how seriously one takes and evaluates an art form and how meticulous one wants to rate/rank.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 01:28:00 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/10/2018 05:28

craola wrote:

I played Schubert growing up, and I am sure you have a better understanding of him and his music than I do, but I can't say I'm totally unfamiliar with his work. I enjoy Schubert just fine. To be clear, my problem with the piece you suggested isn't the piece - it's the vocalist.

Example? I like Tim's music just fine, but Tim was a prick who spent more time writing about his estranged son, Jeff, than involving himself in his life (see: Dream Letter). I have listened to quite a bit of Tim's music and I find his songwriting much stronger than his performances, personally. Do you have an example of this ethereal/metaphysical realm you speak of? The closest I can think of is Song of the Siren, which was performed more ethereally and metaphysically by This Mortal Coil.

Jeff Buckley absolutely hits me in places no one else does. Ethereal? Absolutely, on All Flowers In Time Bend Towards the Sun, Morning Theft and You & I. Metaphysical? Yes, particularly on live versions of What Will You Say? and Dream Brother.

Jeff has covered some of his father's tunes, and I think he eclipses them.

eta: did some poking around online out of curiosity, and the ranges on these two guys are both pretty impressive:

Tim Buckley: F#2 - A5
Jeff Buckley: C3 - F5

eta#2:

I was thinking about this a lot after posting, and I suppose I can get on board with Tim Buckley having moments of that same intensity (Gypsy Woman, Happy Time, et al). I suppose there are a few reasons I prefer Jeff to Tim. For one, Jeff has a better batting average for me personally. That's unfair, I suppose, given the volume of stuff the two artists released, but I can't think of a dud in Jeff's discography. In Tim's, there are plenty. He does this great stuff that walks the line between jazz and blues that I love. But he also goes into this cheesy folksy stuff with forced lyrics that reminds me of the theme to The Hobbit cartoon. Ultimately, there's more of that than the stuff I enjoy. Again, just my Seth or whatever.

Particularly his two most experimental albums, Lorca and Starsailor. Blue Afternoon, not as strongly felt, but still extraordinary. Happy Sad approaches this but hasn't culminated his art yet. Lorca (the track) is probably the best example of what I mean. Driftin', Anonymous Proposition, Song to the Siren, as well, and yes, Gypsy Woman, etc, too.

Re: Schubert ... Ah okay, cool. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau IS Schubert's lieder to many, perhaps because he can express such depth of emotion, heft and beauty of tone, without losing any sense of nobility and grace, which could be considered essential to Schubert (nobility and grace in the face of imminent disaster/death). He is also amazing at subtle, fluid character transformation and in his nuanced, gestured articulation of phrase. But if you're not into his renditions and would prefer something with more overt drama and "expressionist", Peter Schreier's rather famous and somewhat notorious rendition (with Richter as pianist) is exceptional in this regard (even if it isn't as idiomatic and subtle, it is still very effective, and among my favorites). Jonas Kaufman's recent recording was very recommendable if you're looking for more "operatic color". Werner Gura / Berner, is also very very good.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

RoundTheBend — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 21:52:59 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2018 01:52

AfterHours wrote:

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

craola — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 15:36:15 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 10/09/2018 19:36

I played Schubert growing up, and I am sure you have a better understanding of him and his music than I do, but I can't say I'm totally unfamiliar with his work. I enjoy Schubert just fine. To be clear, my problem with the piece you suggested isn't the piece - it's the vocalist.

AfterHours wrote:

Tim Buckley reached depths of focus, intensity and inwardness that Jeff never approached and from this could erupt a monstrous conviction and intensity. He had a hypnotic, slow motion control over his voice, a devastating, highly personal (reaching ever inward) pathos, combined with a very haunted and enraptured lugubriousness that was truly otherworldly. As if slowly (or suddenly) erupting out of his body, he took his music to much more ethereal and metaphysical realms of expression than Jeff, and virtually anyone else in Rock history.

Example? I like Tim's music just fine, but Tim was a prick who spent more time writing about his estranged son, Jeff, than involving himself in his life (see: Dream Letter). I have listened to quite a bit of Tim's music and I find his songwriting much stronger than his performances, personally. Do you have an example of this ethereal/metaphysical realm you speak of? The closest I can think of is Song of the Siren, which was performed more ethereally and metaphysically by This Mortal Coil.

Jeff Buckley absolutely hits me in places no one else does. Ethereal? Absolutely, on All Flowers In Time Bend Towards the Sun, Morning Theft and You & I. Metaphysical? Yes, particularly on live versions of What Will You Say? and Dream Brother.

Jeff has covered some of his father's tunes, and I think he eclipses them.

eta: did some poking around online out of curiosity, and the ranges on these two guys are both pretty impressive:

Tim Buckley: F#2 - A5
Jeff Buckley: C3 - F5

eta#2:

I was thinking about this a lot after posting, and I suppose I can get on board with Tim Buckley having moments of that same intensity (Gypsy Woman, Happy Time, et al). I suppose there are a few reasons I prefer Jeff to Tim. For one, Jeff has a better batting average for me personally. That's unfair, I suppose, given the volume of stuff the two artists released, but I can't think of a dud in Jeff's discography. In Tim's, there are plenty. He does this great stuff that walks the line between jazz and blues that I love. But he also goes into this cheesy folksy stuff with forced lyrics that reminds me of the theme to The Hobbit cartoon. Ultimately, there's more of that than the stuff I enjoy. Again, just my Seth or whatever.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 15:30:30 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/09/2018 19:30

For insight into Schubert's Winterreise, this may be of assistance:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconvers...eise-81553

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:45:45 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/09/2018 18:45

craola wrote:

See now, I think Tim is a decent vocalist, but as someone else said, he pales next to Jeff. Though I agree with the overall sentiment that Chris Martin doesn't hold a candle to any of those guys. I like some of Coldplay's early stuff, but I find Chris Martin's voice tiresome.

That said, are these even fair comparisons? Thom Yorke, Bono and Mark Hollis, I would agree, are apt comparisons given the imitation, but Coldplay has little in common with Tim Buckley, Van Morrison or Robert Wyatt. If we're looking for better 1-to-1 comparisons, I would think Keane, Snow Patrol, Franz Ferdinand, Arcade Fire, Guillemots, et al makes more since, given that they are contemporaries. Personally, of the aforementioned group, I'm partial to Fyfe Dangerfield's vocals (Guillemots), but I think the dude from Keane is a better vocalist than Chris as well. I don't know that Alex Kapranos or Win Butler (FF and AF) are better vocalists, but I find them much more palatable to my tastes.

As for the classical piece you posted, I agree with the previous user who said it feels cold. The singer's expression alone is enough to cash out on, but even with my eyes closed, the piece is rather monotonous. He sings well enough. He has great control over his voice. And the composition is well-written (I don't blame the piece of music for this), but I couldn't find any trace of emotion in the vocalist, and that left the overall composition rather expressionless, cold and flat. Just my opinion or whatever, per Seth.

Schubert is at an extreme end of deathly depression with the Winterreise and the melodies are generally dark, introverted lullabies/soliloquys or temporary and defiant efforts to sway this. I think "cant find any trace of emotion in the vocalist" is a pretty astonishing assertion and would only say that's on you to discover. The Winterreise is often considered among the most emotionally devastating works in the history of music (not that you should feel forced to agree, but perhaps take a harder look at it).

Few composers (if any) reward one's ability to discover the nuanced, meticulously composed developmental differentiation in his work than the eternity of melodic, structural transposition and gradation of Schubert. The apparent monotony falls away with more experience, that later becomes an infinite sigh that keeps reaching further inward in an endless swallow of vertiginous, haunted depression and stifling emotional paralysis, of falling tears and gestures in slow motion as recalled from the last gasps of life as the sensation of death slowly takes its grip, the body finally powerless to fight back.

As regards to using vocalists that are "unfair". I agree. I was intentionally mentioning vocalists that are much more extraordinary technically/expressively but essentially expressing the same moods (in a general sense) -- just in much more profound ways.

Tim Buckley reached depths of focus, intensity and inwardness that Jeff never approached and from this could erupt a monstrous conviction and intensity. He had a hypnotic, slow motion control over his voice, a devastating, highly personal (reaching ever inward) pathos, combined with a very haunted and enraptured lugubriousness that was truly otherworldly. As if slowly (or suddenly) erupting out of his body, he took his music to much more ethereal and metaphysical realms of expression than Jeff, and virtually anyone else in Rock history.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

Anonymous — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:07:26 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/09/2018 18:07

I was in the pub the other day with a bunch of people I didn't know and all they played was Interpol and I said 'Hey, is all this place plays is Interpol?' and everybody thought I was really cool.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

craola — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 13:39:27 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 10/09/2018 17:39

AfterHours wrote:

As a vocalist, Martin doesnt hold a candle (especially) to the likes of Mark Hollis, Tim Buckley, Van Morrison, Robert Wyatt... or even Thom Yorke and Bono ... to name some (all more affecting and impinging when delivering similar emotions/expressions as Martin)

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 13:07:48 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/09/2018 17:07

sethmadsen wrote:

This thread a lot of this going on... and I actually loved it, but how could I not reference this:

I have to second I think it was craola who said he'd rather listen to Joy Division than Interpol. I saw Interpol live when they opened for U2 and then I saw Coldplay on a DVD... the DVD was more emotionally and mentally captivating.

For me there's no contest with Coldplay's album, even if I can't really stand to listen to it anymore and much prefer the much more mature songwriting of this album and then they just die for me:

Viva La Vida Or Death And All His Friends by Coldplay

I even prefer parachutes.

My problem with the suggested Coldplay album is it can be incredibly sappy. I think if you took out maybe 4 tracks it'd be still pretty fantastic.

I do know this is a lot of peeps favorite, so no offense or anything, it's just, like my opinion man.

Also I nearly shit myself when I saw AfterHours defend Bono... even if I understood the context he was saying it in... hehe. Just teasing mate.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Oct 2018 13:07:10 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/09/2018 17:07

Whoops - double post

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

baystateoftheart — Mon, 8 Oct 2018 23:59:44 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 10/09/2018 03:59

LedZep wrote:

I also listen to all of the bands you've mentioned with the exception of Brown Dirt Cowboy (haven't heard of them). Should I feel guilty?? :D

If you've listened to all those bands except Brown Dirt Cowboy, what does Captain Fantastic sound like? 😉

Maybe something like this

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

RoundTheBend — Mon, 8 Oct 2018 23:52:19 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/09/2018 03:52

This thread a lot of this going on... and I actually loved it, but how could I not reference this:

I have to second I think it was craola who said he'd rather listen to Joy Division than Interpol. I saw Interpol live when they opened for U2 and then I saw Coldplay on a DVD... the DVD was more emotionally and mentally captivating.

For me there's no contest with Coldplay's album, even if I can't really stand to listen to it anymore and much prefer the much more mature songwriting of this album and then they just die for me:

Viva La Vida Or Death And All His Friends by Coldplay

I even prefer parachutes.

My problem with the suggested Coldplay album is it can be incredibly sappy. I think if you took out maybe 4 tracks it'd be still pretty fantastic.

I do know this is a lot of peeps favorite, so no offense or anything, it's just, like my opinion man.

Also I nearly shit myself when I saw AfterHours defend Bono... even if I understood the context he was saying it in... hehe. Just teasing mate.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

LedZep — Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:31:58 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 10/08/2018 10:31

911Turbo wrote:

Lets be clear-the last few Coldplay albums are not brilliant.They are good but not great.

Now I'm not a big Coldplay fan, but I do enjoy A Rush Of Blood, and even most of Parachutes and Viva la Vida. However their last 2 albums are godawful by any standard I can think of...

Skinny wrote:

Opinions are like assholes. Don't take it personally. Listen to The The or The Waterboys or TV on the Radio or The Cure or, hell, even Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy, or just something better than these two records. Or don't. No skin off my nose.

Oh shit I enjoy both of these albums (Interpol's much more tho) and I also listen to all of the bands you've mentioned with the exception of Brown Dirt Cowboy (haven't heard of them). Should I feel guilty?? 😁

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

911Turbo — Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:54:18 GMT

Author: 911Turbo

Posted: 10/08/2018 03:54

Thought i would give my 2 cents after reading the comments from fellow members.
I am not familiar with this specific Interpol album, so i will reserve judgement.

Lets be clear-the last few Coldplay albums are not brilliant.They are good but not great.
BUT " A rush of blood to the head" is absolutely incredible. Their best work by far. And I do have all their albums.
I listen to it regularly ( once every 2 months), and it has not disappointed me, even after listening to it >50x.
A true "tour de force" album when the future looked so promising for Coldplay.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

Anonymous — Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:20:44 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/05/2018 18:20

AfterHours wrote:

@ raadfactoryxny

To get a more specific idea of where I am coming from...

For a comparison to what I would consider among the pinnacles (in all of music history) for (fundamentally) similar emotional states as Coldplay tends to express -- but here expressed with so much more conviction and emotional depth that it's practically an entirely different art form -- not just technically, in its genre classification -- but an entirely different echelon of emotional conviction and expression...

(Jump to 1:05:32 and watch until the end of the video for the quickest erasure of any and all doubt...)

Link

This leaves me cold. I was raised and fed with pop songs stuffed with minor chords that go straight to my heart and I can't go back to all this seriousness.
(I'm not talking of classical music in general, but rather these 19th century sung poems)

I prefer this lullaby:

Link

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

AfterHours — Thu, 4 Oct 2018 04:21:31 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/04/2018 08:21

@ raadfactoryxny

To get a more specific idea of where I am coming from...

For a comparison to what I would consider among the pinnacles (in all of music history) for (fundamentally) similar emotional states as Coldplay tends to express -- but here expressed with so much more conviction and emotional depth that it's practically an entirely different art form -- not just technically, in its genre classification -- but an entirely different echelon of emotional conviction and expression...

(Jump to 1:05:32 and watch until the end of the video for the quickest erasure of any and all doubt...)

Link

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

SleepDealer — Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:15:32 GMT

Author: SleepDealer

Posted: 10/03/2018 20:15

Interpol for me. Was into both at the time but TOTBL has had real staying power.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

DommeDamian — Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:47:18 GMT

Author: DommeDamian

Posted: 10/03/2018 19:47

Skinny wrote:

of course. It's your opinion, and I respect that. If you have any recommendations/suggestions of LP's or artists, plz drop them on my "Albums to check out after May" chart. Peace.

Re: Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL

Skinny — Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:45:07 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 10/03/2018 19:45

raadfactoryxny wrote:

Yea, whatever man....