Best Ever Albums

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Tap — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 21:11:39 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/26/2018 02:11

Oh thanks, I like making graphs! Oh and that seems like a short break but hey if you're hungry for more already there's nothing wrong with that.

re: Romanelli

Romanelli wrote:

Equating "Listen to what you want to listen to" with "Do your homework before you can play outside" is quite a reach.

Oh come on, so if I had "Listen to what you want to listen to" as my signature on all of my posts, I could go around saying "I see people here who add and claim to listen to more albums from the pop music sphere than I will ever listen to in 5 years...then I see them confess on these forums that they haven't heard someone like Mahler, or even Beethoven. Priorities, man!" and then be like "what, I said people can do what they want" if anyone questioned me about that? A disagreement there is something worth exploring. Much in the same way that our disagreement is worth exploring. Because the person you talked about there is me. I am the one who listens to hundreds of things from the current year but still hasn't heard 10 out of the top 30 albums on the overall chart. Maybe I was a little pointed in expressing my disagreement, but it's a bit frustrating to see my position characterized often as something lesser. But that did probably make it more difficult for us to explore our disagreement so I do regret that.

Quote:

Or are you just looking to be snippy?

No I'm looking for something like this (this is not to say that I have any idea of what your position actually would be, this is just a hypothetical idea of how it could go):

Hypothetical Romanelli wrote:

But you should do your homework before going out to play. That's legitimately good advice, both in the literal interpretation and in how you mean it. Kids do their homework to build the foundational knowledge they rely on in adulthood. Similarly, a young music listener needs to build this foundation, even if they don't love it as much as their most favorite things. Because when that listener hits adulthood, they need something more than the contemporary music of their youth or they'll be left wondering why music doesn't make them feel like they did when they didn't have adult responsibilities, they'll have no context for the inevitable changes in sensibilities in themselves and in the culture, and it's likely that that's all the music they'll ever have a deep relationship with. Having an understanding of the classics, allowing the music that has stood the test of time to make an impression on the mind when it has its youthful plasticity, that all can be incredibly important for giving listeners the tools to have a perpetually deepening relationship with music through their whole life.

Hypothetical Tap wrote:

I don't think I'd even disagree about the value of homework as you describe it there. My issue is with the idea of a standardized curriculum that must precede significant engagement with contemporary music. Like I was reading an interview with this composer who I'm eager to dive into, Mark R. Taylor http://www.anothertimbre.com/tayloraftermaths.html he has been composing for decades but from the looks of it this is the first time it has been made available in recorded form. He talks about the music education he gave himself listening to BBC Radio 3's Music In Our Time, hearing Xenakis, Steve Reich, Scelsi etc, and talks about how the appreciation he gained there was so significant to his music creation process. And I think developing that kind of appreciation is important even if you're just a music listener. But I wouldn't say that all music listeners should listen to those artists, necessarily. But their work should be available enough so that the exposure is possible for the people who would benefit from it. Music is built out of many different perspectives and has many canons, and I think it is totally fair for people to determine that they are not interested in some of the albums that are highly elevated. I think the idea that people have an obligation to these albums no matter what their interests actually are is something that would lead to more exhaustion, not less. Like I would say for sure that it is positive that these canons exist, that these consensus albums that have stood the test of time are elevated and made highly visible, so that the people who would benefit are likely to get the exposure. But I think that exposure can happen in a way that is more relevant to a person's interests and also happen concurrently with an engagement with contemporary music.

Hypothetical Romanelli wrote:

We're talking hundreds of albums though, it seems like it would be very difficult for someone to have a significant emphasis on the historical musical documents that are relevant to the person's interests on top of that. And also, come on, albums like Sgt. Peppers continue to be revered because they continue to have a direct lineage to a great deal of the contemporary music that people put so much focus on.

Hypothetical Tap wrote:

Well here's what my year looks like so far

It's a lot of listening, but half of the things I listened to are things I had already listened to before 2018. Still, you've got the 231 things from this year, and only 188 from outside of 2018. And then if you factor in the other 2010's releases I heard for the first time, the breakdown looks even worse for the other decades.

So I don't have a majority focus on the historical stuff, but I do still have the time to get what feels like a significant amount in. But this is a lot of albums, someone couldn't possibly have enough time to give them all a fair shake. Well maybe someone out there could, but I can't.

That's a bit deceptive though, because those albums I've listened to once, many of them I've listened to before.

So out of the 188 albums I listened to that were released before 2018, about 54% of them only got one listen, as opposed to the 39% of albums I heard from 2018 that I only have one listen. I do have a heavy focus on the contemporary, that much is for sure. But among my most listened of the year are older albums that are very significant for my interests in Ornette Coleman's approach to jazz, which has finally led me to his harmolodic period and thru that I got to James Blood Ulmer - Tales of Captain Black, or with synthpop in Virna Lindt - Shiver and Ruth - Polaroïd/Roman/Photo, or other new depths in niches that interest me. There are plenty more, and sure they're a bit esoteric but I've been at this for a while and they connect strongly with my history of music listening. And I think it's totally fine that I follow these threads before I ever hear a Bob Dylan album in full, because I've heard Bob Dylan songs, and they do not interest me. But yeah, it is totally possible to listen to hundreds of 2018 releases and still be able to have some emphasis in your listening on the historically significant stuff.

And oh I'd have a lot to say about your second point, because that is worth discussing more but this has already gone on for a while.

Hypothetical Romanelli wrote:

Yeah since this isn't actually happening we should probably just call it here.

There's stuff to get into here!

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Luigii — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 19:16:12 GMT

Author: Luigii

Posted: 11/26/2018 00:16

Damn! Tap's graphs are off the chain. But I took the advice to not listening to any new music. So tomorrow will be the start up for new albums.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

21stCenturySchiz — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 14:27:37 GMT

Author: 21stCenturySchiz

Posted: 11/25/2018 19:27

I can't say that i ever get exhausted with music as a whole but i definitely get exhausted with certain bands and genres. Generally with Genres i try to explore another genre that i haven't dabbled into that much. I'm a classic rock nerd through and through but when i've gotten tired of it, i've explored with Jazz, Country, even Classical

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Romanelli — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 12:50:24 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 11/25/2018 17:50

Tap wrote:

I don't want you to avoid expressing your opinions. Because yeah it's totally valid to have the perspective that listening to the most contemporary music out of a sense of obligation and spending significant time with music that holds no interest to you can be miserable and foolish when there are other options. Illuminating the breadth of possibilities and the rewards they can hold is a very good thing!

But it's never just that. Maybe you've been showing incredible restraint, but it still feels like I've seen this message paired with dismissals of the people who have a different approach so many times. And as I said, you do totally have the right to say this. But especially here, I have to say that you are wrong. Because you're just trading one obligation for another. "OMG these people are doing this thing that's different from me, and they haven't even listened to all the classics. Don't they know that this is something they have to do?" But nobody has to do any of this, that's what's so cool. The obligations that you preach have the same potential for disillusionment and exhaustion. Giving people the impression that they have to do all their homework before they can go play outside is bad advice, because nobody is getting graded on this.

Equating "Listen to what you want to listen to" with "Do your homework before you can play outside" is quite a reach. And just because you say that I'm wrong doesn't mean that I am wrong. "Listen to what you want to listen to" does not seem to be requiring an obligation, does it? I "preach" obligations? What sermon does "That's my thing. Do what works for you" bring to your mind?

Or are you just looking to be snippy?

Anyway. Good talk, bro. Dig your graphs.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Tap — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 03:24:45 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/24/2018 08:24

So actually on this point I do have another series of graphs. I've only been keeping track of the release decades of what I've been listening to, so there's some approximation in the data. But here is the average year per day for 2017. What that means is that if I listened to exclusively things released in 2010, the score for the day will be 2010. But if I listened to one thing from 2010 and one thing from 1990, the score would be 2000.

So what this shows is that in 2017, I was frequently listening to stuff from the current decade. Most of these points are in the 2000-2010 range. This can be confirmed in a pie chart of the raw totals thru the year.

A lot of that was fueled by listening to a lot of 2017 releases and I did have fun but I wanted to broaden my focus, so at the start of 2018 I made a point to check out a little bit from the current releases. I never deprived myself of something that I wanted to listen to, but I didn't really do much to seek stuff out. And so this is what the chart looks like for 2018.

So for the first 2/3rds of the year things were much more spread out, and then this last third has been even more 2010s focused than anything on 2017. The pie chart is still showing a majority of 2010's releases but the balance looks much more reasonable.

I've been very satisfied with the approach and am going to do it again for 2019 for sure. If anyone out there is feeling burned out from keeping up with new releases but doesn't want to abandon it entirely, I'd recommend trying the same! Though I know that is different from the in-general new-to-you releases that OP meant.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Tap — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 21:19:45 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/24/2018 02:19

I don't want you to avoid expressing your opinions. Because yeah it's totally valid to have the perspective that listening to the most contemporary music out of a sense of obligation and spending significant time with music that holds no interest to you can be miserable and foolish when there are other options. Illuminating the breadth of possibilities and the rewards they can hold is a very good thing!

But it's never just that. Maybe you've been showing incredible restraint, but it still feels like I've seen this message paired with dismissals of the people who have a different approach so many times. And as I said, you do totally have the right to say this. But especially here, I have to say that you are wrong. Because you're just trading one obligation for another. "OMG these people are doing this thing that's different from me, and they haven't even listened to all the classics. Don't they know that this is something they have to do?" But nobody has to do any of this, that's what's so cool. The obligations that you preach have the same potential for disillusionment and exhaustion. Giving people the impression that they have to do all their homework before they can go play outside is bad advice, because nobody is getting graded on this.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Romanelli — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 19:23:13 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 11/24/2018 00:23

Tap wrote:

Romanelli wrote:

Listen to whatever you want to listen to. My experience with trying to soak up as much new music as you can? You're going to spend a lot of that time wasted on really bad music. You don't have to listen to new music now. It will still be there when you want it. But the good thing will be...most of the really shitty stuff will have already been plowed through by everyone else.

Check out my 2018 chart. Ooops...don't have one. Nor do I have a 2017 chart. My 2016 chart has 1 album on it. My 2010's decade chart has 47 albums total. There is no hurry. It will still be there when you feel like getting to it. In the meantime? I am still discovering albums from decades ago. There is so much out there. New stuff (and there is simply way too much of it) can freaking wait. I see people here who add and claim to listen to more albums from this year alone than I will ever listen to in 5 years...then I see them confess on these forums that they haven't heard something like Sgt. Pepper or The Velvet Underground & Nico. Priorities, man! But I do still keep an open ear for new albums I may want to check out in the future.

That's my thing. Do what works for you.

You say do what works for you, but you also never miss an opportunity to talk down about users who use the site in the way they are encouraged to by the New Releases section and 2018 lists. There is something special about experiencing something in its ar ctual moment though. There's lots of special experiences available, like your approach, but I don't think you have the right to be constantly arguing that this one is so invalid and such a horrible burden for the site. Well, you do, but you're wrong. A lot of the new stuff I've been hearing has been from recent years, and it has been an incredible experience for me.

Good for you. I'm glad you are having a good experience with new music. As for my opinions...I believe that albums should not be added to BEA before they are officially released because they are not officially released yet, and from a data moderation point of view (which I do a LOT of), unreleased albums tend to carry with them inaccurate information and can be more difficult to find online. I believe that my time is better spent working on albums that actually have been finalized and officially exist. I have the right to that opinion, and I'm sorry you have a problem with the way I see music. I also respect AM's decision to allow these albums on the site. I may say something about it once in a while, but it's hardly my mission here on BEA to bash new music and the people who prefer to listen to it. It is kind of crappy of you to suggest that it is.

I believe that spending all of your time on new music is not the way to go. So shoot me. Again...I am entitled to my opinion on this. I do not, however, troll the boards here and snap at people every time they listen to new music, and I do not make it my goal here on BEA to change people's minds. If I "never missed an opportunity", as you say, I would have been banned ala Gary or Naples a long time ago. Would you prefer that I don't voice my opinion here? I disagree with the idea of overloading on new releases. Apparently, so does the op of this thread. He asked a question. I answered it honestly. I'm so sorry if my opinion about new music bothers you so much. If you would like, I would be most happy to go through all 29 pages of the 2018 Music thread and remove all of the negative posts I have made there so that when you go through the thread, you won't be upset by my presence. Except I have never posted in that thread, because it simply does not pertain to me. I do not care if you listen to new music or not. I said what works for me. Because someone asked. I'm so sorry you don't like the fact that I voice my opinion about something that has to do with music and BEA in the BEA forums.

I will so try to keep the practice of posting what I think to a minimum. Will that work for you?

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

rkm — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:47:20 GMT

Author: rkm

Posted: 11/23/2018 22:47

NowhereMan wrote:

How do you guys determine whether to move on from an album or not?

Is it one listen then you know you won’t be returning to it again? Or a more sustained effort?

If I dislike an album on first listen, it will rarely move to a position of love with repeated listens. However, there are many albums that move from like to love over time. Confusingly, some albums start out with a bang and only get worse in my estimation with repeated listens.

I’ve somewhat shifted in my process. I used to be about complete albums, and would dismiss albums if I didn’t enjoy the entirety of it. These days, I’ve embraced playlists, and simply delete the tracks if I don’t like them. Some albums remain complete, and others end up butchered, and I’m ok with that.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:32:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/23/2018 22:32

NowhereMan wrote:

How do you guys determine whether to move on from an album or not?

Is it one listen then you know you won’t be returning to it again? Or a more sustained effort?

One listen only, unless I didn't like an album just because I wasn't in the right mood while listening (for example with the band Suede: having not been in the mood since 1993 doesn't mean I couldn't like their albums)

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Fischman — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:31:21 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 11/23/2018 22:31

Romanelli wrote:

Brilliant post. Perfect from end to end.

I'm especially in tune to this concept as I have recently been immersing myself deeply in jazz, especially hard bop... most of which is really old. That recent music will still be there when I get my jazz fill. I've also been discovering new-to-me prog, again much of which is from a bygone era. These are things I know I love rather than being so hit-or-miss, so it only makes sense I concentrate there.

I'm also blessed to have one late teen/two young adult children who know both current music and my particular tastes, so I do get regular recommendations from them, so I'm not entirely out of touch with more recent releases.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Luigii — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:50:40 GMT

Author: Luigii

Posted: 11/23/2018 21:50

Been loving these comments guys. Yeah, will come back to this hopefully on Monday.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

NowhereMan — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 13:15:31 GMT

Author: NowhereMan

Posted: 11/23/2018 18:15

babyBlueSedan wrote:

NowhereMan wrote:

How do you guys determine whether to move on from an album or not?

Is it one listen then you know you won’t be returning to it again? Or a more sustained effort?

If I don't enjoy an album at all, I don't go back. Sometimes I'll go back months or years later to see if anything has changed, but if I don't like something I'm not going to try to like it. I don't even know if that's possible.

If I think it has a chance of becoming a favorite I'll give it a week or more and listen again. If I really liked it I usually listen to it sooner because I want to hear it again. If I don't have that urge to listen again I decide I must not have loved it. Again, I can always come back in the future and see if I changed my mind. There were a couple albums like that this year that I relistened to for the first time in years and which ended up high on my chart. But if I had listened to them over and over years ago who knows if the same thing would have happened. Maybe this year was the right time to hear them.

My main rule is to listen to what you're interested in. I don't listen to things over and over unless I really enjoy them, and one or two listens is usually enough to know if that's the case. I have had periods where I haven't felt like listening to anything, but a few days of silence or only listening to my favorite songs (songs, not albums) usually gets me back in the groove.

Thanks man.

I'm OCD about missing out on the opportunity to fall in love with an album as I find it so rewarding, but maybe I need to crack on and get listening as I may be missing out elsewhere.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

babyBlueSedan — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:38:41 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 11/23/2018 14:38

NowhereMan wrote:

How do you guys determine whether to move on from an album or not?

Is it one listen then you know you won’t be returning to it again? Or a more sustained effort?

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

NowhereMan — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 06:28:11 GMT

Author: NowhereMan

Posted: 11/23/2018 11:28

How do you guys determine whether to move on from an album or not?

Is it one listen then you know you won’t be returning to it again? Or a more sustained effort?

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Tap — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 17:22:34 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/22/2018 22:22

Romanelli wrote:

You say do what works for you, but you also never miss an opportunity to talk down about users who use the site in the way they are encouraged to by the New Releases section and 2018 lists. There is something special about experiencing something in its actual moment though. There's lots of special experiences available, like your approach, but I don't think you have the right to be constantly arguing that this one is so invalid and such a horrible burden for the site. Well, you do, but you're wrong. A lot of the new stuff I've been hearing has been from recent years, and it has been an incredible experience for me.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:25:09 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/22/2018 21:25

Romanelli wrote:

But the good thing will be...most of the really shitty stuff will have already been plowed through by everyone else.

Yes, letting time do the selection job is a good idea, although I can understand the attraction of the new. The new is magic too in a sense that : in what way history of music is gonna go now? We had this, we had that, at this time, that time, we had revivals, so what’s gonna come up now with this brand new disc I’m putting on my turntable? There is a certain suspense !
Anyway, time is always doing a great job at selecting. I don't believe that much in lost treasures.
And of course time may corrode the past too, not just the present stuff !

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Romanelli — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 15:59:58 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 11/22/2018 20:59

Listen to whatever you want to listen to. My experience with trying to soak up as much new music as you can? You're going to spend a lot of that time wasted on really bad music. You don't have to listen to new music now. It will still be there when you want it. But the good thing will be...most of the really shitty stuff will have already been plowed through by everyone else.

Check out my 2018 chart. Ooops...don't have one. Nor do I have a 2017 chart. My 2016 chart has 1 album on it. My 2010's decade chart has 47 albums total. There is no hurry. It will still be there when you feel like getting to it. In the meantime? I am still discovering albums from decades ago. There is so much out there. New stuff (and there is simply way too much of it) can freaking wait. I see people here who add and claim to listen to more albums from this year alone than I will ever listen to in 5 years...then I see them confess on these forums that they haven't heard something like Sgt. Pepper or The Velvet Underground & Nico. Priorities, man! But I do still keep an open ear for new albums I may want to check out in the future.

That's my thing. Do what works for you.

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 15:49:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/22/2018 20:49

It's just a habit. If you're used to listening to a lot of new music, you'll want more, despite temporary fatigue. It's just a little saturation.
Still I humbly recommend to make the difference between a genuine, measured, selective interest in (new) music and simple gluttony (I think this applies to any pleasures in life !)

And rkm remedie, a whole day in silence, is pure gold

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

rkm — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 05:56:29 GMT

Author: rkm

Posted: 11/22/2018 10:56

I do get exhausted sometimes

The two remedies I use:
-Spend a whole day in silence
-Listen to music that is very familiar

Re: Getting Exhausted with Music

PurpleHazel — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 04:38:45 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 11/22/2018 09:38

I have a tendency to push myself to listen to a lot of albums in a short span when I'm working on specific charts, so then need to take a break for a few days, maybe a week every once in a while.