Best Ever Albums

Re: EPs on charts

albummaster — Sat, 8 Dec 2012 04:07:12 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 12/08/2012 09:07

There's now a clear cut off, which is 20 minutes, or more than 4 tracks. This is slightly more lenient than the official definition of an album (by five minutes), to allow members a bit of flexibility. This is an album site, and there has to be a sensible cut-off to maintain the integrity of the charts. Nothing is taken down immediately, there's 28 days to contest anything you think has been incorrectly flagged.

Re: EPs on charts

videoheadcleaner — Fri, 7 Dec 2012 21:20:24 GMT

Author: videoheadcleaner

Posted: 12/08/2012 02:20

DLGGLD wrote:

I know this,but Kwes' Meantime has four tracks and is being taken down,so just wanted to know where everyone stands.I'm not gonna add all these albums(which is pretty time consuming) and find they're deleted.

I added Lost Wishes by the Cure to one of my charts. It is a sole body of work (if we want to call it that) but it was removed as it was under time and only had four tracks. I was fine with this, annoyed but fine, and can see why the rule is in place.

They may be great pieces of work but the rules of the site are becoming clearer on this.

Re: EPs on charts

GeevyDallas — Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:51:37 GMT

Author: GeevyDallas

Posted: 12/08/2012 00:51

thejoj96 wrote:

If it is at least 20 minutes or has over four tracks, it can be in a chart.

Re: EPs on charts

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:48:26 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 12/08/2012 00:48

DLGGLD wrote:

I was just wondering whether I'll be able to add Kwes' 'Meantime Ep',Todd Terje's “It's The ARPs EP” and Blawan's 'His He She & She' Ep to my 2012 chart?I see Kwes' EP is under 'debate' at the moment.I don't wanna add stuff and have it taken down.I think that electronic music hasn't really been taken into consideration in the debate as not to many artists release full lenght albums,but will often release shorter EPs as full bodies of work and there would be a very real possibility of totally dismissing some great releases.For instance James Blake's 'CMYK' is easily the work of music released into 2010 and it would be a shame if it wasn't in our database.Just wanna know because by the time I finish my 2012 chart I'll be looking to add another 10-15 short 3-4 song EPs.I wont be too fussed either way,just thought it should be brought up.

If it is at least 20 minutes or has over four tracks, it can be in a chart.

Re: EPs on charts

GeevyDallas — Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:45:44 GMT

Author: GeevyDallas

Posted: 12/08/2012 00:45

I was just wondering whether I'll be able to add Kwes' 'Meantime Ep',Todd Terje's “It's The ARPs EP” and Blawan's 'His He She & She' Ep to my 2012 chart?I see Kwes' EP is under 'debate' at the moment.I don't wanna add stuff and have it taken down.I think that electronic music hasn't really been taken into consideration in the debate as not to many artists release full lenght albums,but will often release shorter EPs as full bodies of work and there would be a very real possibility of totally dismissing some great releases.For instance James Blake's 'CMYK' is easily the work of music released into 2010 and it would be a shame if it wasn't in our database.Just wanna know because by the time I finish my 2012 chart I'll be looking to add another 10-15 short 3-4 song EPs.I wont be too fussed either way,just thought it should be brought up.

Re: EPs on charts

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:49:10 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/18/2012 21:49

I appreciate this defenition. I now have a few things I can add to my charts. Jar of Flies being one of them!

Re: EPs on charts

pearljammer13 — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:52:40 GMT

Author: pearljammer13

Posted: 11/15/2012 01:52

albummaster wrote:

So, to keep things simple, the current position is that 'albums' need to be at least 20 minutes in length OR have more than four tracks.

😁 Good, so Jar Of Flies by Alice In Chains qualifies. This makes me happy as it's in my top 10.

Re: EPs on charts

albummaster — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:44:32 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/14/2012 07:44

thejoj96 wrote:

"Watery, Domestic" by Pavement is an EP. It clocks in at 11:27 and has four tracks. It is meant as a complete work and is not promotional. Adding this EP to a chart breaks the rules that have been set. If someone wanted to add this EP (which is a complete work) to a chart, why should they be restricted to do so?

There will always be exceptions, and that's why there is a 28 day period to prevent any improper deletes:

albummaster wrote:

Albums will be flagged as 'suspect' if they do not meet either of the above criteria, and they will be deleted after 28 days if a case cannot be made to keep them.

(this does not sound like an album though)

Re: EPs on charts

GeevyDallas — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:16:52 GMT

Author: GeevyDallas

Posted: 11/14/2012 00:16

DLGGLD wrote:

It's a tough one,I decided not to include EPs in my charts.If I treated it as my 100 favorite bodies of work,there would be over 25 EPs/Mini Albums/Maxi Singles/etc I reckon,so I thought that was far too many.Maybe one of two to add a bit of variety and colour to a chart should be deemed acceptable.

Just read through some of the thread,looks like I didn't understand the debate.Disregard my post.

Re: EPs on charts

GeevyDallas — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:14:29 GMT

Author: GeevyDallas

Posted: 11/14/2012 00:14

It's a tough one,I decided not to include EPs in my charts.If I treated it as my 100 favorite bodies of work,there would be over 25 EPs/Mini Albums/Maxi Singles/etc I reckon,so I thought that was far too many.Maybe one of two to add a bit of variety and colour to a chart should be deemed acceptable.

Re: EPs on charts

Hayden — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:38:59 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 11/13/2012 21:38

thejoj96 wrote:

Ya 😕 Could we keep that one? It's really good 😄

I think the entire collection of EP's using in Belle & Seb's 'Push Barman...' shouldn't be up...That makes sense. I'll delete those off my chart.

Re: EPs on charts

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:36:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/13/2012 21:36

"Watery, Domestic" by Pavement is an EP. It clocks in at 11:27 and has four tracks. It is meant as a complete work and is not promotional. Adding this EP to a chart breaks the rules that have been set. If someone wanted to add this EP (which is a complete work) to a chart, why should they be restricted to do so?

Re: EPs on charts

albummaster — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:36:07 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/13/2012 13:36

Hayden wrote:

:-'

I'll try to make it as conservative as possible with length's and stuff...No singles or anything. I figured it'd be ok considering there's no points awarded to it :?

sorry, but custom charts are still meant to contain albums. The whole point of the site is to highlight the best albums (& the definition should be loose enough now that it should give most people enough flexibility without opening the floodgates to singles/maxi-singles etc, which definitely should not be here).

Re: EPs on charts

albummaster — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:25:21 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/13/2012 13:25

yes, anything over 20 mins is fine.

Re: EPs on charts

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:02:45 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/13/2012 13:02

Nice! I was never positive of the definition BEA settled on for EPs. Lately, I've been wanting to add Burial's Street Halo EP to the database; is everyone cool with this given that it's 20.6 minutes long?

Re: EPs on charts

Hayden — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:57:09 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 11/13/2012 12:57

albummaster wrote:

(one user has just posted a whole chart full of them)
.

🫠

I'll try to make it as conservative as possible with length's and stuff...No singles or anything. I figured it'd be ok considering there's no points awarded to it 😕

Re: EPs on charts

videoheadcleaner — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:53:39 GMT

Author: videoheadcleaner

Posted: 11/13/2012 11:53

Any EP/Mini-Album I keep in my charts is longer than 25 minutes mostly.

Also I have made a habit of putting in the comments on the admin album page how long the EP goes for to cover myself.

Re: EPs on charts

albummaster — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:27:21 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/13/2012 11:27

Yes, there's bound to be a few that sneak in under the radar, but I think having those criteria will make data moderation less subjective, & a bit easier for everyone (I noticed a post earlier in the thread mentioning 20 mins as a minimum length, and from seeing the various releases added over the last nine months, it seems a sensible cut-off point). Custom charts seem to have introduced a bit of a back-door, but this is still an album site and the items on the site need to reflect that.

Re: EPs on charts

19loveless91 — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:12:23 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 11/13/2012 11:12

I'm not so much against EPs on charts, at least if they're only used in custom charts. I assume the person who posted a whole chart of them, used the custom charts option to do so (?). I think the criteria you got there is good (although there can be EPs with more than 4 tracks, and way shorter than 20 minutes - e.g. Minor Threat EP), but I wouldn't delete those EPs from the site, just maybe make them ineligible for points for overall ranking.

Re: EPs on charts

albummaster — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:05:04 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/13/2012 11:05

I've noticed quite a few EPs are still being submitted (one user has just posted a whole chart full of them), so I thought re-opening this thread might be a good idea.

The 'official' definition of an album: "A recording counts as an "album" if either it has more than four tracks or lasts more than 25 minutes. Sometimes shorter albums are referred to as "mini-albums" or EPs. Albums such as Tubular Bells, Amarok, Hergest Ridge by Mike Oldfield, and Yes's Close to the Edge, include fewer than four tracks. Other artists such as Pinhead Gunpowder refer to their own releases under 30 minutes to bake as "albums" despite the normal distinction."

BEA's definition is more lenient to allow members a bit of flexibility, but there has to be a cut-off somewhere, and it needs to be clear enough so that everybody understands it (& it can then be enforced consistently). So, to keep things simple, the current position is that 'albums' need to be at least 20 minutes in length OR have more than four tracks.

Albums will be flagged as 'suspect' if they do not meet either of the above criteria, and they will be deleted after 28 days if a case cannot be made to keep them.