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Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

NJ — Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:33:44 GMT

Author: NJ

Posted: 09/28/2019 17:33

I mean, I like Rocky fine, though I definitely agree with some of your criticisms. Besides, why watch Rocky when you could watch Raging Bull instead? Really, all sports movies kind of crumble under that one...

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

CA Dreamin — Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:20:36 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 09/28/2019 17:20

^^^To be fair, I haven't seen Night of the Hunter in many years, and don't remember much of it. But I remember liking it a lot. I hope to see it again some time, and we'll see how it holds up.

Okay, now I want to throw shit at a movie some of you like:

Rocky. Yes you read that correctly. I hate that movie. Perhaps some of that hate stems from the fact I'm from Philadelphia where the film takes place. I lived there until I moved out for college. But I've had quite a few Office Space Michael Bolton moments when I meet someone new, and I tell them I'm from Philly. And they reply: 'Oh, you must like Rocky.' At first, I casually smirked, before turning my head and rolling my eyes. I don't hold back anymore. It's a bad movie. It's shallow in every respect, from its characters, to its main boxing plot, to its Talia Shire romantic subplot.

That romantic subplot was especially bad. I recall an ice skating scene as their first date, where Rocky just explained boxing to Adrian for three straight minutes, and she looked like she didn't give a shit. Later on, as she was trying to get away from him, he trapped her in corner where they shared an awkward first kiss. It didn't seem like the relationship would gonna go anywhere, and yet it blossomed from there, because Stallone scripted her as a quiet, boring, socially awkward woman that would require little effort to get.

Lack of effort is also obvious in the writing of its main plot as well. Stallone supposedly wrote the script in only three days. Do any of you know how hard that is, even to write a bad movie? Here's how he did it...

...the script is plagiarized. Now, this was probably obvious back when Rocky came out. But over time, perhaps some background history has been forgotten. But yes, Rocky is based on the fight between Muhammad Ali and Chuck Wepner. Apollo Creed is Ali, and Rocky Balboa is Wepner. Of course there's nothing wrong with adapting true stories into screenplays, but I think we can agree it's lazier than writing an original. And in Rocky's case, it was also an opportunity to cash in on the boxing craze, as the sport was at a peak in popularity in the 1970s. Boxing was popular because of Muhammad Ali and how controversial he was. Today Ali is mostly respected, but back in the 70s, many people didn't like him for various reasons - his race, his class, his attitude, his politics, the combination of all those reasons. Rocky totally pandered to the crowd who didn't like Muhammad Ali, as the story is about a poor white guy fighting a rich black guy. Anyway, for years Stallone either ignored or denied the connection. And idiots loved the movie, and fifty more Rockys have been made since. I haven't watched any of them, but I hear they're much worse. Meanwhile, Chuck Wepner, whose life/character spring-boarded this billion dollar franchise, was left without any compensation for decades until he finally sued Stallone in the 2000s, mainly because he was old, broke, and desperately needed money. Stallone fought the lawsuit at first, before they settled out of court. Smart move on Stallone's part. If that had gone to court, it might have gained publicity and raised awareness to what a fraud Stallone's career is founded on. There's a very good documentary called The Real Rocky (2011) with more info.

So yeah, I have no respect for Rocky nor its creator. It's shallow. It's plagiarized. It pisses me off when people assume I love it just because I'm from Philly. It has problematic racial and class undertones. The romantic subplot is dogshit. From its success, Stallone made shit tons of money and countless more Rocky and Rambo movies, while the guy who inspired it was left with no compensation for 30 years. Fuck Rocky. And fuck Sylvester Stallone. Cinema would have better off without them.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

badseed — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:13:51 GMT

Author: badseed

Posted: 09/26/2019 19:13

The two that always come to mind for me are The Shawshank Redemption and Fight Club.

The former is as simplistic a film as something can possibly be; absolutely nothing wrong with it but also nothing that makes it stand out at all. It gets that "12 Angry Men" love in that it's a great film but that greatness is largely exaggerated because it's one of those movies that takes no intelligence to enjoy and you can take a 30 minute dump halfway through the movie without actually missing anything that makes you confused when you come back.

The latter I think benefits greatly from nostalgia - the majority of people who love that film have loved it since day 1 because they were between ages 10 and 20 when it came out and it felt cool and edgy at the time. Many of these people have never grown up and are still living in 1999 where pointless fist fights are still commonplace among friends and music today sucks because it doesn't hold a candle to old school Korn and Eminem.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

Hayden — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 11:53:26 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/26/2019 15:53

NJ wrote:

1960 might be my favorite year in cinema. There were just so many classics. I was referencing La Dolce Vita, though. I consider it the definitive Italian movie. It may very well be my favorite movie. It, Tokyo Story or Vertigo.

Which reminds me: I consider both 8 1/2 and Amarcord heavily overrated. 8 1/2 I feel is rather surface-level and lacks the subtlety of La Dolce Vita. I loved the dream sequences (and of course the non-transitions), and it was the film that introduced me to Fellini, but I don't think it's close to his best. The characters aren't as interesting, either: he's more developed technically, but Guido isn't as interesting or unique a character as Marcello, whose non-development created one of the most interesting protagonists in cinema. Amarcord is too unfocused, and the first half pales in comparison to the second. Both movies are great, but La Dolce Vita and Nights of Cabiria (whose ending reduced me to tears) are his real masterpieces.

Yeah, La Dolce Vita's right up there with Breathless for me. I think I have a ranked list somewhere lazily tie-ing them as my favourite films of the entire 1960's, so...

As far as the rest, I've always felt Amarcord was overrated too, and that Nights of Cabiria, La Dolce Vita and 8 1/2 were Fellini's best works (by quite a bit actually). So, all the love there.

Quote:

I also have a few beloved films I like to throw shit on, but first I want to hear out this Night of the Hunter thing.

My main gripe, and it doesn't help that my first time watching it was in the early 2010's, is that the film comes across as severely dated. If I saw it for the first time in the 50's, maybe I'd think differently, but I genuinely found most of the script really dull and the acting truly shoddy. The acting just... isn't good. It's not good. I don't get what people are watching that I'm missing. Billy's a kid, so I'll give him a break, but Mitchum's an absolute ham, and a fair amount of supporting characters land on the opposite side of the spectrum as completely wooden. Everyone comments on the cinematography, which at times is unquestionably beautiful (yet sparse), and the imagery is brilliant at times (also sparse), but I don't think it was as overly forward thinking as people have noted. If it came out in the 20's-30's maybe, but... well... it didn't. I think film stills are better than the actual movie. It's just not a film I can sit through without cringing... the dialogue gets laughably cheesy/cliche at times (which, maybe it wasn't when it was released), the pacing bizarrely makes the film like it has multiple spots it could've ended (especially the second half, which is the equivalent of accidentally stepping in wet pavement during a jog), and yet, all I read are floods of perfect scores 🤣 it has a 99 on Metacritic. There are a lot of times (I think) the film awkwardly transitions into a noir-parody, which... well... I don't think it was supposed to be. Often it comes across as a film that's trying to make fun of the film that it's trying to be. The cartoonishness kills any suspense, and I don't feel for any of the characters at any point even in the slightest... nothing about the film grips me. It borders comedy a fair portion of the film, diving into complete goofiness at times, and I don't think it's supposed to... Mitchum's incompetence as a 'hunter' borders Elmer Fudd.

Plotwise, I don't understand any of the characters motives or decisions, and the entire river bit is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. What are these kids doing? 🤣

Visually, at times, it's a notable effort, which I can't help but feel sucks people into thinking it's a decent film. But that's about all I got. I haven't a clue where people think the film's praised qualities come from. There's no way that script would've passed even come the 1970's, let alone now. Other films that came out in 1955 include Diabolique, Marty, Ordet, Rififi, Lola Montes, La Pointe-Courte, and The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz... so it's not like standards were low (albeit, most of those are from France). On The Waterfront, La Strada, Rear Window, Seven Samurai, and Dial M For Murder all came out around then too... sure, there's plenty of bad films around that time as well, but I'm just trying to showcase a gist of the quality standards of films from that time deemed 'classics'. It Happened One Night came out 20 years earlier. I just don't get what they thought they were pulling with such a simple, unfocused, wooden script.

Don't get me wrong, I never go into a film (or album) expecting not to like it, regardless of how it's praised, but this one's always stuck out as a bizarre half-baked mess to me. I don't get why it's considered good, let alone a classic. It's far from the worst thing I've ever seen, but it's genuinely an easy contender to land somewhere in my bottom 50 or-so, and I've watched some real duds. I can't help but feel it's a film that has no idea what it is.

Best part's the knuckle tattoos.

(fixed some typos in the edit).

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

NJ — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 01:05:50 GMT

Author: NJ

Posted: 09/25/2019 05:05

Quote:

Quote:

1960's great.

Le Trou
La Dolce Vita
L'Avventura
The Apartment
The Naked Island
Letter Never Sent
Psycho
Two Women
The Bad Sleep Well
Testament of Orpheus
The White Dove
Purple At Noon

All very cool. If you're talking about any of the top three there, you definitely have an argument.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

CA Dreamin — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 00:51:49 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 09/25/2019 04:51

^^^1960 was an excellent year for cinema. Don't forget Peeping Tom, Eyes Without a Face, Rocco and his Brothers, Elmer Gantry, and Shoot the Piano Player.

I also have a few beloved films I like to throw shit on, but first I want to hear out this Night of the Hunter thing.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

Hayden — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:57:52 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/25/2019 02:57

Quote:

Also, it's definitely overshadowed by another greater (and "cooler") foreign film from that year.

Quote:

That's fine and good, but what's your major gripe with it?

And I'll post my troubles with Night Of The Hunter later... they aren't too detailed, buuuuut let's say I feel like everyone's taking loony pills.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

NJ — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:44:28 GMT

Author: NJ

Posted: 09/25/2019 02:44

Quote:

Quote:

Tell you what, I'll throw my own hat in the ring:

The Night of the Hunter.

I actually love that one... By the two-thirds mark (when they start floating down the river), I was wondering how it could keep going, when it felt like it should be wrapping up. But the cinematography during that section was breathtaking, and the last third ended up pushing the film into great territory, in my mind.

As I said, I think Breathless is a great movie objectively, I just find it really boring. Stupid straight people talking naively about love for 3/4 of a film, though thematically rich, is tedious. The other 1/4 where they actually do stuff is nice, I guess.

Also, it's definitely overshadowed by another greater (and "cooler") foreign film from that year.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

Tha1ChiefRocka — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:50:33 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 09/25/2019 01:50

Hayden wrote:

The Night of the Hunter.

That's fine and good, but what's your major gripe with it?

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

Hayden — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:21:40 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/25/2019 01:21

Quote:

Avengers: Infinity War and Black Panther

Being said, if it makes it feel any less like I'm trying to attack you (which I'm not), I agree with these. Infinity War is like eating a bucket of candy corn.

Tell you what, I'll throw my own hat in the ring:

The Night of the Hunter.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

Hayden — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:17:28 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/25/2019 01:17

NJ wrote:

Breathless

CA Dreamin wrote:

Oh boy. Time for a Hayden rebuttal.

One of my favourite's there NJ, just to clarify CA's point. All good though, I've never been one to force someone to like something they insist they don't.

They all come around eventually.

Badass, chic, slick, sharp, hip, killer dialogue, relatable, a timestamp yet timeless — somehow wrapped up in something so simple. Truffaut's script, Godard's direction... both at a pivotal moment in French new wave, carrying some sort of existential torch passed from the literary movement. There isn't a single wasted line, not to mention the imagery (or the influence... but that's beside the point). It's a natural airy freedom that cinema didn't really see before it was released. The contrast of the two leads has endless chemistry... somebody wearing a mask, and somebody whose mask you can't read, slyly flirting with each other for whatever it's worth.

It's like The Velvet Underground & Nico of films, if The Velvet Underground & Nico was more like John Coltrane & Kerouac, and maybe Max Roach shows up. It's an injection of unarguable cool, kicking you when you need to be kicked.

And it's French and very smokey, which is très cool.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

JOSweetHeart — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 19:52:44 GMT

Author: JOSweetHeart

Posted: 09/24/2019 23:52

Back To The Future is one of my most favorite trilogies. 😄 😄 😄

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

Villain — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:15:33 GMT

Author: Villain

Posted: 09/24/2019 14:15

Quote:

I almost put Casablanca on my list, as well. It was close. Another classic SciFi film, 1958's The Fly, nearly made it as well. Honestly, that one probably deserved to be there more than The Thing.

Interesting topic. I find myself thinking this way about a lot of films as well, but for some reason there are very few I think of off the top of my head. The first one I could think of was Casablanca, and for some reason the only other movie I can think of is Moonlight. I'll have to see if I can dig up some more that fit into this category.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

NJ — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 21:02:56 GMT

Author: NJ

Posted: 09/24/2019 01:02

I'd be interesting in seeing your list, CA Dreamin. And I don't dislike SciFi; 2001 and Blade Runner are both in my top 10 films, and Alien and Stalker are in my top 20. It's more just that the mediocre and bad horror films I find much more enjoyable than the mediocre and bad SciFi ones. Like, I tend to overlook flaws a lot more in horror films than in SciFi ones.

I almost put Casablanca on my list, as well. It was close. Another classic SciFi film, 1958's The Fly, nearly made it as well. Honestly, that one probably deserved to be there more than The Thing.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

CA Dreamin — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 20:28:24 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 09/24/2019 00:28

NJ wrote:

Breathless is great, I just can't stand it.

Oh boy. Time for a Hayden rebuttal.

NJ wrote:

Well, I'm not a huge SciFi fan, which is perhaps one of the reasons I consider it overrated. Horror is more my genre (after art-house, of course), so the pure horror of Halloween interests me more. As SciFi horror goes, once again, Alien really stands heads and shoulders above the others.

Well you would probably get along with badseed more than you would with me. I'm the sci-fi fan; he's the horror fan. And yeah, no argument here about Alien being better than The Thing. But Alien may be the best sci-fi/horror ever made.

By the way, this is a fun idea for a thread. Whenever I get enough time and motivation, I might come up with a list crappy movies many people like.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

NJ — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:08:48 GMT

Author: NJ

Posted: 09/23/2019 20:08

CA Dreamin wrote:

Quote:

Agree to disagree. These movies are great. Got something against Zemeckis?

No, I love Roger Rabbit. I just don't much care for the other two. Forrest Gump is much worse, though. I really wouldn't call Back to the Future or Forrest Gump "great," maybe good. Breathless is great, I just can't stand it.

CA Dreamin wrote:

Quote:

The Thing is also Sci-Fi, which is where some of its popularity comes from.

Re: The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

CA Dreamin — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:30:20 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 09/23/2019 15:30

Welcome to the Movie forums, NJ. Unlike the Music forums, it's not a total dumpster fire around here. Anyhoo,

NJ wrote:

2. Avengers: Infinity War and Black Panther - Both of these films are equally overrated, from two different groups: Black Panther was beloved by critics for its diversity, I guess, which isn't really much to say about the film's quality. The best thing about it is the visual style, which is largely ruined by the poor CGI. It's not really a bad film, just a kind of standard, somewhat boring one. Like the lead character - it doesn't really stand out, and isn't particularly complex or likable (and it's certainly not funny), but it's not dislikable either. Infinity War, on the other hand, had a huge cultural impact and was perhaps the biggest film of 2018. Unlike Black Panther, it does stand out a lot. It does a lot right and a lot very wrong. It has terrible pacing and some really bad writing, but some shocking and well-written moments, too. In my eyes, they're both only okay. Black Panther is a consistent 5 throughout, Infinity War is half of the time a 7 and the other half a 3.

Yup, well said. Couldn't agree more. These movies are how I lost excitement for the MCU.

NJ wrote:

3. Breathless - This one is just subjective unenjoyment. I know the characters are supposed to be unlikable idiots, and Godard certainly succeeded in making me not like them.

4. Forrest Gump - Not all that special. I find the character more unlikable and annoying than anything, and the inspirational whimsy makes me want to die.

6. Back to the Future - It's fine. This sort of pulpy SciFi isn't really my cup-of-tea, and neither is the humor. It has its moments.

Agree to disagree. These movies are great. Got something against Zemeckis?

NJ wrote:

5. Predator - To be honest, I actually do enjoy this one a bit. It has a great set design and really fast pacing, which works well enough for a movie like this. It's bad, but enjoyably so. Sure, the story is more holes than actual meaningful story, and the characters are so two dimensional that I can't even muster a shrug when they die, but whatever. It's certainly no Alien, though, but people seem to like to compare it to that masterpiece. It's not that, at all.

I never hear anyone compare the two films, despite the fact there's a separate franchise called Alien vs. Predator. Perhaps that's why people may compare the two movies? However, Alien vs. Predator started out as a video game series, which led to two movies and more. But it has nothing to do with Alien and Predator movie series. And agreed, one is much better than the other.

NJ wrote:

8. Terminator 2: Judgement Day - Again, this movie is good. Just not great. The action and visuals are fantastic. Story and character-wise, though, it pales in comparison to its far superior and vastly underrated predecessor. I'm sorry, but The Terminator is simply a much better movie.

Totally. Well said once again. I can't sit through T2 anymore. I can watch the first one any time.

NJ wrote:

The Thing (1984) - A very good movie, easily the best one on this list, hence its low ranking. It does have some problems. Its characters aren't particularly great (pretty standard horror asshole fare) and the pacing goes out of its way to try and kill the atmosphere. To think it's become the more popular pick of Carpenter's horror films over Halloween is also a bit ridiculous, but whatever. I understand why people like this one as much as they do, though.

The Thing is also Sci-Fi, which is where some of its popularity comes from.

The Films I Like the Least That Most Seem to Love

NJ — Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:39:27 GMT

Author: NJ

Posted: 09/23/2019 01:39

I dislike the term overrated, but I suppose that'd describe my feelings toward these following 10 films. Most of them aren't bad, I just don't think they're all that great. If you love them, fine, but I don't. They're ranked on a combination of their perceived (by me) adoration from people and how much I don't love them. I still like most of these, just not all too much. Some of these are more just subjectively not being to my personal taste, others are more about what I perceive as containing many objective flaws.

1. Highlander - The soundtrack is nice, though I'm not the biggest Queen fan. That's all the nice things I can say about this movie. It is legitimately a terrible piece of garbage in every way, except the soundtrack.

2. Avengers: Infinity War and Black Panther - Both of these films are equally overrated, from two different groups: Black Panther was beloved by critics for its diversity, I guess, which isn't really much to say about the film's quality. The best thing about it is the visual style, which is largely ruined by the poor CGI. It's not really a bad film, just a kind of standard, somewhat boring one. Like the lead character - it doesn't really stand out, and isn't particularly complex or likable (and it's certainly not funny), but it's not dislikable either. Infinity War, on the other hand, had a huge cultural impact and was perhaps the biggest film of 2018. Unlike Black Panther, it does stand out a lot. It does a lot right and a lot very wrong. It has terrible pacing and some really bad writing, but some shocking and well-written moments, too. In my eyes, they're both only okay. Black Panther is a consistent 5 throughout, Infinity War is half of the time a 7 and the other half a 3.

3. Breathless - This one is just subjective unenjoyment. I know the characters are supposed to be unlikable idiots, and Godard certainly succeeded in making me not like them.

4. Forrest Gump - Not all that special. I find the character more unlikable and annoying than anything, and the inspirational whimsy makes me want to die.

5. Predator - To be honest, I actually do enjoy this one a bit. It has a great set design and really fast pacing, which works well enough for a movie like this. It's bad, but enjoyably so. Sure, the story is more holes than actual meaningful story, and the characters are so two dimensional that I can't even muster a shrug when they die, but whatever. It's certainly no Alien, though, but people seem to like to compare it to that masterpiece. It's not that, at all.

6. Back to the Future - It's fine. This sort of pulpy SciFi isn't really my cup-of-tea, and neither is the humor. It has its moments.

7. Scream, Scream 2 and A Nightmare on Elm Street - These are good films. I like them. They all have bad endings.

8. Terminator 2: Judgement Day - Again, this movie is good. Just not great. The action and visuals are fantastic. Story and character-wise, though, it pales in comparison to its far superior and vastly underrated predecessor. I'm sorry, but The Terminator is simply a much better movie.

9. Suicide Squad - How could this be overrated when everyone hates it? Well, not everyone hates it, and that's why. Just most. Unlike Highlander, I legitimately cannot say anything good about this movie. It manages to do everything wrong, and represents all of the worst parts of modern popular cinema. It is truly terrible, and the fact that some people seem to like it is ridiculous. It's not even enjoyably bad - it's boring. And stupid. And terrible. I hate it.

The Thing (1984) - A very good movie, easily the best one on this list, hence its low ranking. It does have some problems. Its characters aren't particularly great (pretty standard horror asshole fare) and the pacing goes out of its way to try and kill the atmosphere. To think it's become the more popular pick of Carpenter's horror films over Halloween is also a bit ridiculous, but whatever. I understand why people like this one as much as they do, though.