Best Ever Albums

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:56:54 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/18/2021 19:56

Facetious wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

For possible hip hop 8/10s: possibly Public Enemy's own Fear of a Black Planet? TPAB, MBDTF, and TCD are still on the table probably, especially MBDTF. Personally think you're underrating Paul's Boutique, Madvillainy, and Clouddead as well here.

What do you think of Freestyle Fellowship's Innercity Griots, Wu Tang Clan's debut, J Dilla's Donuts, and Dalek's albums apart from the two included on the list? Also, for something that combines rap and free jazz: Steve Lehman's Selebeyone is very interesting. And how about instrumental hip hop? Endtroducing is definitely 8+ imo.

Yes, to College Dropout - highest chance among these -- though the longest Ive thought it had the legs for 7.8/10 was 2 listens in a row. MBDTF has a greater sense of import and 'major statement' but Im not quite sure that makes it better; it seemed like an 8/10 for some early listens but has not since even though in my mind I always think it might -- it has (slightly) diminishing returns (relative to 8/10) and seems pretty solidified at 7.5 or maybe a 'high' 7.4. CD has a looseness/spontaneity, vibrance and soulfulness in the instrumentation and collaboration of vocals throughout that seems to lend a little better to repeat listens and for which West is especially brilliant at.

Fear of a Black Planet has a shot (more likely 7.3-7.7 if an upgrade).

7.3+ not completely out of the question for those others but more often than not it may come down to an underestimation of 7.0-7.2 which is increasingly on the verge of 'historically extraordinary' but just falls short upon scrutiny or revisitations or lacks something special enough to elevate or hold it there. PB especially always seems a little better to me in my mind and then falls a little bit short on revisits. But I actually had it in the 7.3s and maybe even 7.8+ years back, including "post-Scaruffi" (after 2005), so there's always a chance, but I havent thought of it as such for at least the last 5-10 revisits.

Thanks - havent checked out Innercity Griots nor Lehman.

Wu Tang debut perhaps 7, maybe a shot at 7.3+. Donuts probably 6.5 or 7. The unrated 7 or 7+ Daleks probably all match Scaruffi's ratings (big surprise) though they have among the best shots at upgrades as their originality makes them tougher to be sure of and extra plausible to change my mind and thats the main reason I havent decided and added them yet.

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

TiggaTrigga — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:51:06 GMT

Author: TiggaTrigga

Posted: 03/18/2021 19:51

@AferHours: Completely understandable! You've got your own priorities of what music to focus on at the moment, and I don't wanna unintentionally shift you to focusing on something else. I just enjoy reading your and the others' thoughts on albums.

@Facetious: I agree about MBDTF, could definitely be an 8, though I still don't get the purpose of the outro song.[/quote]

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

Facetious — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 21:58:03 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 03/18/2021 01:58

AfterHours wrote:

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 15:05:02 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/16/2021 19:05

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

Yes, I'm sure there will be other 8s even if few and far between. Some years ago, for a short time, I thought To Pimp a Butterfly and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy were both 8s. Even recently I considered the possibility of upgrading College Dropout to 7.8 (8s = 7.8-8.2) for a listen or two and this is still not out of the question (though maintaining 7.5/7.6 is more likely). I think the biggest difficulty Hip Hop faces in elevating past an 8 may be in escaping the need to represent pop culture and finding a more profound medium between "maximalist" and "personal/meaningful". There are certainly artists like Cloudead and others that don't care about representing pop culture. And lots of hip hop can conjure up a spectacle of maximalism and sick beats (etc) but only a certain percentage remain truly meaningful and impactful down the road after the novelty or initial impression wears off. A truly original vocalist would be a major plus (not just rhyme schemes or flow/rhythm, but the character of the vocalist/vocals taking on a lot more expressive capacity; these exist, just few and far between). Pop Group's Y, though not the same genre, shares similarities of how a hip hop 9 might occur, and is a very good analogy for those points combining in a similar way that a hip hop artist may approach it. This balance isn't necessarily the only possible route to a hip hop 8.5-9, probably the most likely though. The implementation of experimental or free jazz (again not dissimilar to Pop Group, but should be creative in its own right) is probably a crucial path. There are hip hop albums (on my lists and I'm sure others) that feature any of these elements, but I'm not sure if any have all of them in one (again, like Pop Group's Y, as an analogy).

Music, as a general view, is getting more maximalist, more a conflation of varied genres, tones, etc. However the same artists are not necessarily utilizing these skills to express something more profound, powerful, meaningful or personal to them past the initial impact or show or spectacle or novelty of said conflation of genres, tones, etc. There are exceptions like Julia Holter of course, who is quite original, and creating visionary and personal sound worlds that (for Aviary especially) can be quite maximalist, but such artists are few and far between. There are those like Clarence Clarity that are immensely talented but ultimately has not truly surpassed this limitation consistently across an album. Similar phenomena in cinema where directors, editors, cinematographers, have a million possibilities at their digital fingertips, but practically every blockbuster action film is an unrelenting maximalist rush of shots, few of which serve a purpose or meaning past the point of that superficial, perhaps momentarily exciting, effect. A filmmaker like Peckinpah demonstrates the difference. Painting has become far more novelty or the effort to produce a single startling effect (often one dimensional or so open to interpretation that the interpretation is almost meaningless) than profound and emotional images that withstand time and analysis and are worth revisiting again and again, that reveal something about the artist, life, oneself, etc.

Sorry - very little time for misc descriptions/analysis of albums at the moment, especially those I'm not listening to that week (that's kind of a "side" reason for my Top 10+ of the Week, btw, is to show what I'm focused on). I will get around to Rap at some point and maybe I'll revisit those. But it is challenging to say much that's worthwhile about a work, especially those I haven't revisited very recently, when I'm listening to probably 1000 other albums per year, along with simultaneous or alternating periods where I'm viewing or analyzing or revisiting/re-analyzing hundreds of paintings or 100+ films over a 12 month span (etc). That's a lot to have one's mind on at any given time, so it can be extra difficult to say something about a work I am not listening to or haven't in quite some time.

My descriptions/analysis are probably most useful when I can say something a little bit different or the same thing but from a different angle, as Scaruffi (then if one has read Scaruffi's but doesn't quite 'get' the album, it might be helpful to add mine to that; instead of just repeating what he has already said). Or, especially, when I can help hone in on what one should or needs to recognize in the work in order to "unlock" the most key element or elements of it; that if one didn't realize it before, it will tend to change the listening or viewing experience if recognized now. Or, in some cases, a mostly new or different take on one we don't agree on so much or as much. I doubt I could add much to what he has already said for either of those two though -- as he covers what's essential for both and I can't think of another way to put it, at least for any point that is crucial to one's assimilation of the important elements of those albums. Maybe I could say something about Tackhead at some point, as his review is pretty short, but I doubt I could add anything worthwhile to Exmilitary.

Currently I am revisiting several Scaruffi 8.5s, 9s and a number of high rated albums on my list that didn't seem as stable in terms of rating/quality the last time I listened (seemed like they could move up or down more easily than usual). Another purpose of this, besides various re-rates, is that I'm reminding myself of the qualitative impact of the various ratings, while and before I revisit albums I haven't rated yet and take on new ones (7s, 7.5s, and probably some lower ratings, that are new to me).

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

TiggaTrigga — Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:53:30 GMT

Author: TiggaTrigga

Posted: 03/15/2021 22:53

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Mon, 15 Mar 2021 00:50:02 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/15/2021 04:50

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Some other high-ranking albums I missed:
Billy Woods - History Will Absolve Me
Open Mike Eagle - Brick Body Kids Still Daydream
Celestaphone - Portrait of a Harlot

I think that's all of them

Thanks I am not familiar with those ones 😄

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

TiggaTrigga — Sat, 13 Mar 2021 16:34:42 GMT

Author: TiggaTrigga

Posted: 03/13/2021 21:34

Some other high-ranking albums I missed:
Billy Woods - History Will Absolve Me
Open Mike Eagle - Brick Body Kids Still Daydream
Celestaphone - Portrait of a Harlot

I think that's all of them

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

Hayden — Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:38 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/09/2021 21:15

AfterHours wrote:

What Im most likely going to do is make Jazz only genre lists.

😁

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:07:42 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/09/2021 21:07

Hayden wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Best Hip Hop/R & B/Soul/Funk Albums

8.5/10
We Insist! Freedom Now Suite - Max Roach (1960)

Yes it is of course more properly "Hard Bop/Vocal/Avant Jazz" or similarly listed.

But it is also R and B and perhaps Soul. And one could argue that it was a cornerstone of the expression of the Civil Rights movement (and alike cultural concerns) in music that informed or helped to inform so many R and B/Soul and eventually hip hop albums that followed in the 70s and 80s.

That said, many Jazz albums are inflected/grounded by R and B/Soul/Blues and informed motown and many other artists to follow so... Basically I was originally planning to merge Jazz albums with their closest "Rock" apparent and then also note those Jazz genres on the same list, but I stopped short. So Ill likely remove Freedom Now Ste and Les Stances and perhaps On the Corner and not add Bitches Brew, etc. Just like I probably wouldnt add Soft Machine's 3rd to a Jazz list, even though it would be partially accurate or at least arguable.

What Im most likely going to do is make Jazz only genre lists. My original intent was to use these for both though and I still may do so. I just stopped adding them shortly after starting because I had 2nd thoughts.

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Mar 2021 15:56:29 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/09/2021 20:56

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Analysis of It 'Takes a Nation of Millions' and 'My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy' when? 😜

The former is (probably) the best hip-hop album ever and the latter is my favorite album ever!

Would LOVE to read analyses of those someday

Possibly 😄

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

Hayden — Tue, 9 Mar 2021 15:26:38 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/09/2021 20:26

AfterHours wrote:

Best Hip Hop/R & B/Soul/Funk Albums

8.5/10
We Insist! Freedom Now Suite - Max Roach (1960)

😐

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

TiggaTrigga — Tue, 9 Mar 2021 15:25:23 GMT

Author: TiggaTrigga

Posted: 03/09/2021 20:25

Analysis of It 'Takes a Nation of Millions' and 'My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy' when? 😜

The former is (probably) the best hip-hop album ever and the latter is my favorite album ever!

Would LOVE to read analyses of those someday

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Tue, 9 Mar 2021 13:51:39 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/09/2021 18:51

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Another one to include: M.I.A. - Maya

Apparently he upgraded it from a 6.5 to a 7.

And there are others I didn't include that have gotten 7s from the artists on this list (like a couple more Lil Peep albums), but the list's purpose was just to list each artist he's given a 7 to, not necessarily to include every single album from these artists that have a high rating.

Right on, thank you for the reminder. That's another one I'll need to add (probably in the 7s for me too). I haven't listened to it since it 2010-11 so should revisit. Also Arular should be added to my "below 6.8" list though, again, I haven't heard that one since its release year and will need to revisit. Haven't checked out her others yet.

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

TiggaTrigga — Mon, 8 Mar 2021 17:56:15 GMT

Author: TiggaTrigga

Posted: 03/08/2021 22:56

Another one to include: M.I.A. - Maya

Apparently he upgraded it from a 6.5 to a 7.

And there are others I didn't include that have gotten 7s from the artists on this list (like a couple more Lil Peep albums), but the list's purpose was just to list each artist he's given a 7 to, not necessarily to include every single album from these artists that have a high rating.

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Sun, 7 Mar 2021 11:05:23 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/07/2021 16:05

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Looking at your hip-hop album placements from your overall rock & jazz albums list, I noticed there were some that you didn't include that Scaruffi thinks highly of (7.0 or above, for the most part). So I decided to list them here, some of which are even 7.5s (Tetsuo & Youth, El Negro, Lil Peep Part One, The Unseen, Black Ben Carson) and even a freaking 8.0 (Phonemenomicon). I honestly think I fit every single hip-hop artist Scaruffi has given at least a 7.0 to in here.

If I'm understanding right, you seem to currently be focused on visual art analysis, so hip-hop isn't on your mind right now, lol. But I thought you'd find this interesting, regardless.

LL Cool J - Radio
Public Enemy - Yo! Bum Rush the Show
Boogie Down Productions - By All Means Necessary
The Beatnigs - The Beatnigs
MC Lyte - Lyte as a Rock
Jungle Brothers - Done by the Forces of Nature
Gang Starr - Step In The Arena
Digital Underground - Sex Packets
Consolidated - The Myth Of Rock
Stetsasonic - Blood, Sweat & No Tears
Ice-T - O.G. - Original Gangster
The Goats - Tricks of the Shade
Arrested Development - 3 Years, 5 Months And 2 Days In The Life Of...
The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy - Hypocrisy Is The Greatest Luxury
Digable Planets - Reachin' (A New Refutation Of Time And Space)
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
Guru - Jazzmatazz Volume 1
Spectre - The Illness
The Roots - Do You Want More?
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst
DJ Shadow - Preemptive Strike
Prince Paul - A Prince Among Thieves
Company Flow - Little Johnny From The Hospitul
Aesop Rock - Float
Quasimoto - The Unseen
N*E*R*D - Fly Or Die
Cadence Weapon - Breaking Kayfabe
Lil' Wayne - Tha Carter II
Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
The-Dream - Love/Hate
Flying Lotus - Cosmogramma
Big Boi - Sir Luscious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty
Clams Casino - Instrumentals
Danny Brown - XXX
Killer Mike - RAP Music
Signor Benedick the Moor - El Negro
Chance the Rapper - Acid Rap
Thaiboy Digital - Tiger
Chief Keef - Back From The Dead 2
LIL PEEP - LiL PEEP PART ONE
Lupe Fiasco - Tetsuo & Youth
Earl Sweatshirt - I Don't Like Shit, I Don't Go Outside: An Album by Earl Sweatshirt
Lil Ugly Mane - Oblivion Access
Impossible Nothing - Phonemenomicon
JPEGMAFIA - Black Ben Carson
Young Thug - No, My Name is JEFFERY
Lil Peep & Lil Tracy - CASTLES II
xxxtentacion - ?
clipping. - There Existed An Addiction To Blood
ECCO2k - E
Run the Jewels - RTJ4
LustSickPuppy - Cosmic Brownie

(Personally I think The Money Store by Death Grips could be a 7)

Thank you!

I am taking a break from evals of paintings for the time being. And I am actually focused on primarily Rock right now (so hip hop technically included). I havent made my way to any hip hop quite yet but I am intending to make some genre lists updates including below 7.3.

Of the initial ones you list, Ive listened to Little Peep 1 and Tetsuo and Youth and given a cursory "play test" to Phonemo...whatever. All are intriguing but need more listening to make any reliable determinations.

Of the rest you list, Ive listened to the most famous ones (or at least the most famous or classic to the hip hop listening community, not necessarily sales: Public Enemy, DJ Shadow, Danny Brown, Xxxtancion, Aesop Rock, Company Flow, Ice T, LL Cool J, Earl Sweatshirt..) But if theyre not on any of my lists including "below 6.8" then I just havent done so in the last 18 months and/or need to revisit some more before I rate/rank.

Will certainly keep this list handy 😄

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

fjooso — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 03:55:32 GMT

Author: fjooso

Posted: 03/23/2020 07:55

Reserved for Genre list

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Thu, 19 Mar 2020 22:45:30 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/20/2020 02:45

To anyone interested...

I have begun compiling a list called "Most Acclaimed Albums - Superior & Additional Alternatives".

I am simply using Acclaimedmusic.net's All Time Top 3000 list starting from the top (#1 is Pet Sounds). Then below each entry Ive chosen:

--Superior Alternatives
--Additional Alternatives

Superior Alternatives: selections must be higher rated (per my ratings) than the Acclaimedmusic.net entry. In the case of each being the same rating, it would just be required that I would rank the "superior" selection above the Acclaimedmusic.net one.

Additional Alternatives: any other selections rated/ranked below the Acclaimedmusic.net entry's rating/ranking but must still be at least 6.8 or above.

Below those you will usually see a list of "Notes/Reminders/TBD". This is just a list of undecideds or notes about undecideds, or albums to revisit and see if they are similar enough ... or even artists/albums that might be reminding me of some miscellaneous correlation to remember or consider. So dont pay too close attention to these lists right now as they mean much more to me than they will to you.

For the "Superior" and "Additional" listings the general qualification is that the album should have a fairly strong correlation with the album expressively. Doesnt have to be exact same genre but will usually be the same or a close relative in its genre family tree. I have not decided how defined or strict I want to make this yet but the selections Ive already made for any album(s) youre familiar with should give you a good estimate of what Im thinking with. But I am still working this out as I go. The more I do, the more a "median" should develop and help me better define the parameters.

A good estimate on how far I am thikning with going between "very close correlation" (think The Doors debut vs Strange Days) versus "maximum discrepancy while still maintaining enough similarities/correlation to qualify" might be one like Sgt Pepper vs Piper at the Gates of Dawn. So that should give you an idea. Again, subject to change, as a "median" amongst all the entries develops...

Anyway, this list can be seen on the first page of this thread below all the genre lists (it is the last post first page). It is in very rough draft form at the moment, so excuse the messiness, but you are more than welcome to discuss, give recommendations, help compile it, etc, as I put it together more and polish it up.

Feel free to recommend even for Acclaimedmusic.net entries that Ive already posted my "Superior" and "Additional" selections on. Most of these are still very incomplete. You are also welcome to give recommendations/discuss entries ahead of where I am. Just stay in the top 100 for the time being because I havent decided if I will list beyond that yet. I am considering 300, 500 maybe 1000 as well because Ive heard most of those and it would amount to a pretty huge library of recommendations and could also be used as an excellent gateway from the most popular and acclaimed works to often more adventurous fare. But for now please stay within 100.

Also feel free to recommend me even obvious albums or ones that Ive already alluded to in the "TBD" section. All recommendations help (unless theyre already listed in the "Superior" or "Additional" categories). Even those recommendations I disagree with will often cause me to think of some aspect of the album or reason behind my selections that I wasnt befors. So any recommendations and discussion (etc) are welcome. With so much to remember it will speed the process up considerably!

As a note, it may or may not be staying on this thread but for now (perhaps permanently?) this seems like a good location for it.

Another note: I am quite far from finishing most of my genre lists as well, so you are more than welcome to still recommend for those also!

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 17:01:11 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 02/24/2020 22:01

DelBocaVista wrote:

Hey you might have neglected to jot down "Happy Trails" by Quicksilver Messenger Service

Thanks for the heads up -- not 100% sure I would've remembered that so any recs like this always help even if you think I probably already am thinking with it (that is to anyone reading this). But yes, that's one of hundreds of 7s still to be added (I do need to revisit it to ensure the rating still holds). Each genre list is being added to piece by piece mainly because I have had so little time to update these (5 min here, 5 min there...). I am only partially done with the 7s across all of them; again, probably hundreds on the way which will, consequently, pretty much be its own viewable 7/10s list (even if in parts, by genres) ...which has been requested many times over the years but I've never quite had or wanted to use the time/endurance etc to put it all together, revisit so many of them, and so forth -- so hopefully I can see it through! It's been a joy to check so many of them out (many of which I haven't listened to in several years and some that are new to me). There are also lots of 7.5s coming too, that have never been added, have needed revisits, was unsure of rating, etc. Including a decent helping of new 7s/7.5s and probably some 8s along the way.

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

DelBocaVista — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 14:52:53 GMT

Author: DelBocaVista

Posted: 02/24/2020 19:52

Hey you might have neglected to jot down "Happy Trails" by Quicksilver Messenger Service

Re: Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists

AfterHours — Fri, 14 Feb 2020 12:49:03 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 02/14/2020 17:49

Genre Lists for... Best Electronic/Ambient/New Age/World Music Albums ... Best Punk/Noise/Industrial Albums ... and Best Psychedelic/Art Rock Albums ...are all underway and posted on the 1st page while in progress and being organized (still pretty incomplete, especially havent updated the 7/10 sections).

Also New Wave has been added as an additional genre/subgenre to the Pop list.

Recommendations welcome

Note: New Wave that is also a form of Punk as a primary genre (Punk, Post Punk, Art Punk and so on...) remains on the Punk list as well.