Best Ever Albums

Re: Genre list discussion

Larcx13 — Thu, 13 May 2021 18:03:45 GMT

Author: Larcx13

Posted: 05/13/2021 22:03

There was a lot to read here so I definitely missed some suggestions.

That being said, being a bit of a minimalist my suggestion would be to narrow it down to the least genres possible. There are wayyyy too many sub-genres in nearly every genre to implement them all.

For example:

Rock:
Blues, Alternative, Folk, Country, etc...

Hip Hop:
Conscious, Gangsta, Alternative, Hardcore, etc...

Metal:
Heavy, Death, Metalcore, Hard Rock, Alternative Metal, etc..

Jazz:
Bebop, Hard Bop, Avant-garde, etc...

Pop:
Pop Rock, Dance-Pop, etc...

Electronic:
Techno, House, Dubstep, etc...

Etc... etc.... etc....

What would be left to discuss in that case is what is considered a "Main" genre versus a sub-genre. Anyways, I'd love to see some genre action on this website so I thought I'd give my 2 cents but it's not fully well thought out, just a bit of a brainstorm.

Re: Genre list discussion

albummaster — Tue, 9 Jun 2020 04:55:56 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 06/09/2020 08:55

Sorry for not posting back sooner, my job is crazy right now and wanted to post something substantial rather than put it in a holding position and also had time to stand back a bit and see how the debate unfolds. I'm always in the background fixing bugs, adding smaller features and doing a lot of work upgrading/untangling the forums (they really are a bottleneck for everything else right now because they are so tightly coupled into the rest of the site, but need updating them as the tech is so old. I think I'm about 75% done but process has already taken over two years in my spare time).

Thanks to Spyglass for pushing this forwards (I definitely do need nudging). It feels like we are re-inventing the wheel. We could easily copy somebody else's implementation (several options), or design our own and end up with more or less the same thing. I more than likely have a bit of NIH syndrome, but something that's come from BEA members appeals to me a lot more, and the work involved in building this functionality will probably be a lot less than the actual design work/debate that's happening now. There's obviously differences in thinking about some of this, but I don't want BEA to become a clone of other sites. BEA needs to be different otherwise there'll be no reason for people to come here; so the question in my mind is how BEA can do things differently here whilst providing the functionality that everybody needs (and provide another point of reference for people).

guzguzgarbit wrote:

I think a question is whether we want our genres to be like tags or not. What I mean by that is whether we should accept genre that can't fully define an album, but rather refine their description. For example Holiday is more like a tag than a genre because I don't think there is any album that could be referred only as "Holiday", it's going to be Pop / Holiday or Rock / Holiday or whatever... The same goes for psychedelia or dance as I don't think any album would be just Psychedelia or just Dance (correct me if I'm wrong), while an album can clearly be described as "Pop", "Rock", "R&B", "Hip Hop", "Electronic" and so on...

I'm not against this kind of tagging, but we should be clear on this, because I don't see a reason to include, let's say "Religious" but leave out "Psychedelia".

I think this really gets to the crux of things (leaving aside what labels we use). What purpose do top-level categories provide and what is the definition of a 'category'? When does a category become a refinement/tag? In my mind, a category is an unambiguous container for assigning albums based on their overriding style of music. The point has also been made that a single category containing 80% of the albums in the database won't be very useful for site visitors, but we need to balance that with the need not to have too many categories that they are overwhelming, but keeping them wide enough that the distinctions between them are clear, and that they are labelled in a consistent way. We also need to make sure the site is balanced across the whole music spectrum because the wider audience isn't just the people on the forums, it's also the anonymous user who lands on BEA from Google from a random search result and sees the site for the first time.

Not made much progress on this post, but back to my day job and I'll post back again with some more thoughts...

Re: Genre list discussion

Spyglass — Sun, 7 Jun 2020 16:40:18 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/07/2020 20:40

We need more discussion if we're going to make this perfect. I understand this "transitional period" where there are no trolls on board is still leaving a lot of room for tumbleweeds, but I'd hate it if all the progress we made suddenly halted. This is a community project and we value opinions.

Re: Genre list discussion

Spyglass — Sun, 31 May 2020 15:10:43 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 05/31/2020 19:10

Any updates?

Re: Genre list discussion

Spyglass — Wed, 27 May 2020 12:32:44 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 05/27/2020 16:32

Hold on, I just thought of something. Maybe it could help if we include a message in the "overall" section that reads: "the genre-tagging system is in the development stages. More genres will be added in the future." That might help ease the psychological feeling of repetition.

Re: Genre list discussion

Spyglass — Wed, 27 May 2020 12:30:51 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 05/27/2020 16:30

I think a bigger problem would be applying the tagging system to the overall chart directly when it's overloaded with rock. Psychologically, it could appear one-sided, which could say a lot about our current body. Either one of two things needs to happen to avoid the issue:

A: We ask everyone on BEA to expand their horizons to update the charts.
B: We need to include at least two other tags to diversify the charts from the start.

The former is a leap, and the latter can be easily controlled. There's nothing wrong with the terms. Overlapping doesn't mean the genre doesn't exist, and these genres do need to be acknowledged due to their broadness. Besides, it's possible for a pure psychedelic album to exist. Feels by Animal Collective is a good example. It tales some elements of pop, experimental and folk to help create its unique atmosphere, but none of the elements are prominent enough to warrant the other tags. To file Feels under pop would almost seem lazy. For some of these pop and rock albums, psychedelia is a massive part of the heart and soul, and denying them that is depriving a special genre of the recognition it deserves due to influence and broadness as well as the variety the albums themselves present.

I'll be looking for other examples of pure psychedelia through RYM's charts. I guess they'll mostly be made up of neo-psych.

Re: Genre list discussion

guzguzgarbit — Wed, 27 May 2020 11:32:16 GMT

Author: guzguzgarbit

Posted: 05/27/2020 15:32

I think a question is whether we want our genres to be like tags or not. What I mean by that is whether we should accept genre that can't fully define an album, but rather refine their description. For example Holiday is more like a tag than a genre because I don't think there is any album that could be referred only as "Holiday", it's going to be Pop / Holiday or Rock / Holiday or whatever... The same goes for psychedelia or dance as I don't think any album would be just Psychedelia or just Dance (correct me if I'm wrong), while an album can clearly be described as "Pop", "Rock", "R&B", "Hip Hop", "Electronic" and so on...

I'm not against this kind of tagging, but we should be clear on this, because I don't see a reason to include, let's say "Religious" but leave out "Psychedelia".

I don't want to start a debate here, but maybe we could start with a list of genres we all agree on and add more as the discussion goes?

Re: Genre list discussion

Spyglass — Tue, 26 May 2020 13:28:30 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 05/26/2020 17:28

I think one of the biggest updates involving helping sort out genres is to put a cap on the amount of genres that albums are allowed to be tagged as. I'd say anymore than 3 is a bit extreme.

I'm composing a current version of the top 100 with tags, using babybluesedan's "pared down list" but still keeping experimental (with avant-garde absorbed into it) and ambient.

1. Radiohead - OK Computer - Rock
2. Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon - Rock
3. The Beatles - Abbey Road - Pop / Rock
4. The Beatles - Revolver - Pop / Rock
5. Radiohead - Kid A - Rock / Electronic / Experimental
6. The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - Pop / Rock
7. Radiohead - In Rainbows - Rock
8. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here - Rock
9. David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars - Pop / Rock
10. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico - Rock / Experimental
11. Arcade Fire - Funeral - Rock / Pop (assuming the (chamber pop) genre is valid)
12. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV - Rock
13. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds - Pop (I'm not bothering with the debatable rock tag right now)
14. The Beatles - The Beatles (The White Album) - Pop / Rock
15. Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea - Folk / Rock
16. Nirvana - Nevermind - Rock
17. Pixies - Dolittle - Rock
18. The Smiths - The Queen is Dead - Pop / Rock
19. The Clash - London Calling - Rock
20. Radiohead - The Bends - Rock
21. The Strokes - Is This It - Rock
22. My Bloody Valentine - Loveless - Rock
23. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited - Folk / Rock
24. Pink Floyd - The Wall - Rock
25. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly - Hip Hop
26. The Beatles - Rubber Soul - Pop / Rock
27. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King - Rock / Experimental
28. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours - Pop / Rock
29. The Doors - The Doors - Rock
30. Talking Heads - Remain in Light - Rock
31. Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde - Folk / Rock
32. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses - Rock
33. Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures - Rock
34. Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - Hip Hop
35. Arcade Fire - The Suburbs - Rock
36. The Who - Who's Next - Rock
37. Pink Floyd - Animals - Rock
38. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced - Blues / Rock
39. The Cure - Disintegration - Rock
40. Kind of Blue - Miles Davis - Jazz
41. Kendrick Lamar - Good Kid, M.A.A.D. City - Hip Hop
42. The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main St. - Blues / Rock
43. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II - Rock
44. Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks - Folk / Rock
45. Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - Rock
46. Sufjan Stevens - Illinois - Folk / Pop
47. David Bowie - Hunky Dory - Pop / Rock
48. Television - Marquee Moon - Rock
49. U2 - The Joshua Tree - Pop / Rock
50. Arctic Monkeys - Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not - Rock
51. Pearl Jam - Ten - Rock
52. Nick Drake - Pink Moon - Folk
53. Oasis - What's the Story (Morning Glory?) - Pop / Rock
54. Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream - Rock
55. Nirvana - In utero - Rock
56. David Bowie - Low - Experimental / Rock
57. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin - Blues / Rock
58. R.E.M. - Automatic for the People - Pop / Rock
59. Jeff Buckley - Grace - Rock
60. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks - Folk
61. Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run - Pop / Rock
62. The Rolling Stones - Let It Bleed - Blues / Rock
63. Tame Impala - Lonerism - Rock
64. Sigur Ros - Agaetis Byrjun - Rock (possible ambient tag)
65. The Rolling Stones - Blues / Rock
66. Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation - Rock
67. Weezer - Weezer (The Blue Album) - Pop / Rock
68. Black Sabbath - Paranoid - Rock
69. Joy Division - Closer - Rock
70. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On - R&B
71. Forever Changes - Folk / Pop / Rock
72. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric Ladyland - Blues / Rock
73. Nas - Illmatic - Hip Hop
74. Portishead - Dummy - Electronic
75. Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness - Rock
76. Sufjan Stevens - Carrie & Lowell - Folk
77. Neil Young - After the Gold Rush - Country / Folk / Rock
78. John Coltrane - A Love Supreme - Jazz / Experimental
79. Radiohead - A Moon SHaped Pool - Pop / Rock
80. Michael Jackson - Thriller - Pop / R&B
81. Kate Bush - Hounds of Love - Pop
82. Interpol - Turn On the Bright Lights - Rock
83. The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour - Pop / Rock
84. Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven - Experimental / Rock
85. Joni Mitchell - Blue - Folk
86. Prince and the Revolution - Purple Rain - Pop / R&B / Rock
87. Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago - Folk
88. Queen - A Night at the Opera - Rock
89. Coldplay - A Rush of Blood to the Head - Pop / Rock
90. Slint - Spiderland - Experimental / Rock
91. Madvillain - Madvillainy - Experimental / Hip Hop
92. LCD Soundsystem - Sound of Silver - Electronic / Rock
93. The White Stripes - Elephant - Blues / Rock
94. Weezer - Pinkerton - Pop / Rock
95. Pixies - Surfer Rosa - Rock
96. The Zombies - Odessey and Oracle - Folk / Pop
97. Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy - Rock
98. Tom Waits - Rain Dogs - Experimental / Rock
99. The Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots - Pop
100. Guns 'N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction - Rock

As we can see, there's a significant level of rock here, significant enough to make me tired of typing the word. The need for a couple of genres that are very common even though they're mostly known for overlapping is still a valid need. Psychedelia and dance easily fall into this category. This next version of the list includes bolded titles that indicate changes and differences when the two are included.

1. Radiohead - OK Computer - Rock
2. Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon - Rock
3. The Beatles - Abbey Road - Pop / Rock
4. The Beatles - Revolver - Pop / Rock
5. Radiohead - Kid A - Rock / Electronic / Experimental
6. The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - Pop / Psychedelia / Rock
7. Radiohead - In Rainbows - Rock
8. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here - Rock
9. David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars - Pop / Rock
10. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico - Rock / Experimental
11. Arcade Fire - Funeral - Rock / Pop (assuming the (chamber pop) genre is valid)
12. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV - Rock
13. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds - Pop (I'm not bothering with the debatable rock tag right now)
14. The Beatles - The Beatles (The White Album) - Pop / Rock
15. Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea - Folk / Rock
16. Nirvana - Nevermind - Rock
17. Pixies - Dolittle - Rock
18. The Smiths - The Queen is Dead - Pop / Rock
19. The Clash - London Calling - Rock
20. Radiohead - The Bends - Rock
21. The Strokes - Is This It - Rock
22. My Bloody Valentine - Loveless - Rock
23. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited - Folk / Rock
24. Pink Floyd - The Wall - Rock
25. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly - Hip Hop
26. The Beatles - Rubber Soul - Pop / Rock
27. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King - Rock / Experimental
28. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours - Pop / Rock
29. The Doors - The Doors - Psychedelia / Rock
30. Talking Heads - Remain in Light - Rock
31. Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde - Folk / Rock
32. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses - Rock
33. Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures - Rock
34. Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - Hip Hop
35. Arcade Fire - The Suburbs - Rock
36. The Who - Who's Next - Rock
37. Pink Floyd - Animals - Rock
38. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced - Blues / Psychedelia / Rock
39. The Cure - Disintegration - Rock
40. Kind of Blue - Miles Davis - Jazz
41. Kendrick Lamar - Good Kid, M.A.A.D. City - Hip Hop
42. The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main St. - Blues / Rock
43. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II - Rock
44. Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks - Folk / Rock
45. Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - Rock
46. Sufjan Stevens - Illinois - Folk / Pop
47. David Bowie - Hunky Dory - Pop / Rock
48. Television - Marquee Moon - Rock
49. U2 - The Joshua Tree - Pop / Rock
50. Arctic Monkeys - Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not - Rock
51. Pearl Jam - Ten - Rock
52. Nick Drake - Pink Moon - Folk
53. Oasis - What's the Story (Morning Glory?) - Pop / Rock
54. Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream - Rock
55. Nirvana - In utero - Rock
56. David Bowie - Low - Experimental / Rock
57. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin - Blues / Rock
58. R.E.M. - Automatic for the People - Pop / Rock
59. Jeff Buckley - Grace - Rock
60. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks - Folk
61. Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run - Pop / Rock
62. The Rolling Stones - Let It Bleed - Blues / Rock
63. Tame Impala - Lonerism - Psychedelia / Rock
64. Sigur Ros - Agaetis Byrjun - Rock (possible ambient tag)
65. The Rolling Stones - Blues / Rock
66. Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation - Rock
67. Weezer - Weezer (The Blue Album) - Pop / Rock
68. Black Sabbath - Paranoid - Rock
69. Joy Division - Closer - Rock
70. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On - R&B
71. Forever Changes - Folk / Pop / Psychedelia / Rock (one of these must be excluded to fit the criteria of the example)
72. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric Ladyland - Blues / Psychedelia / Rock
73. Nas - Illmatic - Hip Hop
74. Portishead - Dummy - Electronic
75. Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness - Rock
76. Sufjan Stevens - Carrie & Lowell - Folk
77. Neil Young - After the Gold Rush - Country / Folk / Rock
78. John Coltrane - A Love Supreme - Jazz / Experimental
79. Radiohead - A Moon SHaped Pool - Pop / Rock
80. Michael Jackson - Thriller - Dance / Pop / R&B
81. Kate Bush - Hounds of Love - Pop
82. Interpol - Turn On the Bright Lights - Rock
83. The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour - Pop / Psychedelia / Rock
84. Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven - Experimental / Rock
85. Joni Mitchell - Blue - Folk
86. Prince and the Revolution - Purple Rain - Pop / R&B / Rock
87. Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago - Folk
88. Queen - A Night at the Opera - Rock
89. Coldplay - A Rush of Blood to the Head - Pop / Rock
90. Slint - Spiderland - Experimental / Rock
91. Madvillain - Madvillainy - Experimental / Hip Hop
92. LCD Soundsystem - Sound of Silver - Dance / Electronic / Rock
93. The White Stripes - Elephant - Blues / Rock
94. Weezer - Pinkerton - Pop / Rock
95. Pixies - Surfer Rosa - Rock
96. The Zombies - Odessey and Oracle - Folk / Pop / Psychedelia
97. Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy - Rock
98. Tom Waits - Rain Dogs - Experimental / Rock
99. The Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots - Pop / Psychedelia
100. Guns 'N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction - Rock

The only issue raised by including psychedelia is the complexity of the styles of Forever Changes which is currently (based on RYM's tags) filed under folk, pop, psychedelia and rock. One of these would have to be excluded, most likely the folk tag since it appears last on the primary section of the album's RYM page. This paired with the live version which is not voted folk make way for proper reason to exclude folk and replace it with the obviously much more prominent genre, psychedelia. Dance may or may not be necessary, but it perfectly describes a large role of the unique sound of LCDS, and is arguably more accurate of a description for Thriller than its "contemporary R&B" tag. But Michael Jackson, The Doors, Jimi and the neo-psychedelia albums all benefit from extra variety in the list.

Re: Genre list discussion

babyBlueSedan — Mon, 25 May 2020 22:48:33 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 05/26/2020 02:48

albummaster wrote:

You then posted some exclusions, a lot of which I agree with, but there are some that I don't.

Brass & Military + Military
Broadway & Vocalists / Musical Theatre and Entertainment / Stage & Screen/ Soundtracks
Children's
Christian & Gospel + Religious
Easy Listening
Holiday
International / World Music / Regional Music (there's a wider debate to be continued)
Sound Effects & Nature
Spoken Word

There's still debate to be had about a few of the above e.g. how to deal with soundtracks and theatrical releases (there's an argument to say they are a genre in their own right, especially in the case of movie scores or Broadway musicals, but even the Pulp Fiction soundtrack has audio clips from the movie overlaying some of the tracks (the Big Mac scene etc). Also, the 'world'/'international' category is the biggest thing that's unclear. Personally, I'd rather individual regions weren't listed as categories for reasons outlined above (this should be about musical style and not geographical origin).

The other problem is getting rid of too many categories that BEA requires a 'miscellaneous' option. Under all circumstances, I think this should be avoided. Categories like holiday are very useful around Christmas time. BEA has very few children's albums and brass and military etc, but do we have to forego these categories? Even 'religious music' and 'spoken word' do have a place for some albums, even though the numbers would be very small, as they don't fit into the other categories (even at a stretch) and classing them as miscellaneous indicates missing categories that could easily be added.

Yeah, I was probably a bit overzealous excluding things. I was thinking that it would be more useful to focus on the albums that represent a large percentage of our database rather than creating specific categories for albums that aren't very visible on our charts. I think that's probably the wrong way of looking at things though. I agree Miscellaneous isn't ideal, just a way to limit the number of specific genres we have to make. If we're OK with creating genres for specialized things but also ensuring the more commonly rated albums get sufficiently detailed categories I don't see a reason to exclude most of these. Spoken Word sounds pretty useful for comedy albums and any speeches (and of course, actual spoken word albums). If we can group all the soundtrack categories together that would address all the albums with music pulled from another source - the title of the album usually tells you what it's from. I'm not 100% convinced on Holiday or Religious; I'm sure they'd be useful they just feel more like descriptors than genres to me. Not opposed to them, don't really feel strongly on them at all actually.

I agree with what Baystate said on the World/Regional topic. If other sites provide some regional categories - Reggae is fairly common - it seems like we could be a bit more detailed given our diverse user base and tastes. And I wager there are more albums of regional African music in the database than there are of, say, Sounds and Effects. If we do end up with a catchall I think Regional is the right name to give it because it at least implies that other releases from around the world that fit under rock, pop, etc should be tagged as such.

Re: Genre list discussion

baystateoftheart — Mon, 25 May 2020 14:17:30 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 05/25/2020 18:17

albummaster wrote:

Brass & Military + Military
Broadway & Vocalists / Musical Theatre and Entertainment / Stage & Screen/ Soundtracks
Children's
Christian & Gospel + Religious
Easy Listening
Holiday
International / World Music / Regional Music (there's a wider debate to be continued)
Sound Effects & Nature
Spoken Word

Easy listening fits under pop. And what doesn't fits under jazz or new age.

There is little to no religious music that can't fit under any of the other top-level genres. It is more of a description than a genre.

Re: Genre list discussion

baystateoftheart — Mon, 25 May 2020 14:13:30 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 05/25/2020 18:13

babyBlueSedan wrote:

- I think Ambient could probably roll up under Electronic as well, though obviously it's not all electronic. Otherwise could be experimental/miscellaneous. I'm not really convinced there's enough of it for a top level genre though.

Ambient is distinct for a variety of reasons, including your point that it's not all electronic. In terms of whether there is enough of it for a top-level genre, check out these numbers for 2019 albums on RYM. A page has 100 albums.

Ambient = 15 pages of albums
Blues = 1 page of albums
Classical = 10 pages of albums
Country = 4 pages of albums
Jazz = 9 pages of albums
R&B = 6 pages of albums

Re: Genre list discussion

baystateoftheart — Mon, 25 May 2020 14:01:07 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 05/25/2020 18:01

albummaster wrote:

baystateoftheart wrote:

It's great to see people putting forward ideas and I appreciate you doing that, but the reason I pasted a few lists from other sites is because this problem has been tackled many times before. We can be absolutely certain that some of the world's best software engineers and data scientists are employed amongst these companies, yet none of them have chosen to name their genres after the name of countries or geographical regions. The names of regions look like oddities (why just list three regions, and not go the whole hog and also list South East Asia (or Asia), Oceania, etc). That's not to say we couldn't have a parallel schema where you could drill down from top level continents down to individual regions (BEA has that data already), but I think that should be an additional navigation mechanism and separate to browsing via music style.

Amazon and eBay (and Discogs to a lesser extent) are commerce websites. If data is guiding their genre classifications, it would be with the aim of maximizing sales, which is a different aim than what we're going for. And if people want to put Discogs in a different category from Amazon and eBay, I'd say dancehall and reggae being two separate top-level genres is a strong example that it might not be a meticulously and soundly-designed system. RYM is a genre system built on community consensus, not by a group of experts. And I would wager that for AllMusic, the opinions of their professional music writers played more of a role in constructing the genre system than those of data scientists. Of course, that its own form of expertise. In any case, my point is that I disagree with an appeal to authority as a means of limiting our options.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that these genres encompass music in general from the named regions. Rihanna's music would not be under Caribbean, and K-pop would not be under Asian. These top-level genres encompass lots of smaller genres in folk/indigenous/regional styles. Southeast Asia is part of Asia, and there are simply not enough albums in traditional Pacific Island styles to justify a top-level genre. Also, I included four regions - why do you find Latin American to be more legitimate as a top-level genre?

Re: Genre list discussion

albummaster — Mon, 25 May 2020 05:26:29 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 05/25/2020 09:26

baystateoftheart wrote:

Also, I would say our top-level genres should be designed with the goal of categorizing albums in general. The top 500 sample, while perhaps a useful reference point for discussion, is very unrepresentative.

The top 500 is what most people will see when they first land on BEA (or the current year/decade chart). I think you are right though that it probably excludes some minor genres that aren't so well represented in the overall chart. We could remove obvious duplicates (multiple albums by the same band), and add a few extra albums from genres that are not so well represented to improve the data sample.

@babyBlueSedan I think you've done a great job coming up with the consolidated list and pasted it into the second post on this thread as the starting point for further debate. You then posted some exclusions, a lot of which I agree with, but there are some that I don't.

Brass & Military + Military
Broadway & Vocalists / Musical Theatre and Entertainment / Stage & Screen/ Soundtracks
Children's
Christian & Gospel + Religious
Easy Listening
Holiday
International / World Music / Regional Music (there's a wider debate to be continued)
Sound Effects & Nature
Spoken Word

There's still debate to be had about a few of the above e.g. how to deal with soundtracks and theatrical releases (there's an argument to say they are a genre in their own right, especially in the case of movie scores or Broadway musicals, but even the Pulp Fiction soundtrack has audio clips from the movie overlaying some of the tracks (the Big Mac scene etc). Also, the 'world'/'international' category is the biggest thing that's unclear. Personally, I'd rather individual regions weren't listed as categories for reasons outlined above (this should be about musical style and not geographical origin).

The other problem is getting rid of too many categories that BEA requires a 'miscellaneous' option. Under all circumstances, I think this should be avoided. Categories like holiday are very useful around Christmas time. BEA has very few children's albums and brass and military etc, but do we have to forego these categories? Even 'religious music' and 'spoken word' do have a place for some albums, even though the numbers would be very small, as they don't fit into the other categories (even at a stretch) and classing them as miscellaneous indicates missing categories that could easily be added.

Re: Genre list discussion

Spyglass — Sun, 24 May 2020 20:30:32 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 05/25/2020 00:30

Metal and punk should be filed under rock, and rock should not be paired with pop. We can't call Justin Bieber and most electropop artists rock.

Combine avant-garde and experimental.

I'm gine with babybluesedan's method for handling experimemtal music and miscellaneous music, although I'd prefer the devision to keep ambient in the main list.

Re: Genre list discussion

babyBlueSedan — Sun, 24 May 2020 13:19:41 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 05/24/2020 17:19

So combining all the genre lists AM posted and removing duplicates gives this list:

Consolidated List
Ambient
Avant-Garde
Blues
Brass & Military
Broadway & Vocalists
Children's
Christian & Gospel
Classical
Classic Rock
Comedy
Country
Dance
Dancehall
Easy Listening
Electronic
Experimental
Field Recordings
Folk
Folk, World, & Country
Funk / Soul
Hard Rock & Metal
Hip Hop (and Rap)
Holiday
Indie & Alternative
Industrial
International
Jazz
Latin Music
Metal
Military
Miscellaneous
Musical Theatre and Entertainment
New Age (and Easy Listening)
Non-Music
Opera
Pop (and/or Rock)
Psychedelia
Punk
R&B (and Soul)
Reggae (Ska, Dub)
Regional Music
Religious
Rock
Singer/Songwriter
Ska
Sound Effects & Nature
Soundtracks
Spoken Word
Stage & Screen
Vocal
World Music

From that list, I think we can remove the following without much controversy:

Excluded genres
Brass & Military
Broadway & Vocalists
Children's
Christian & Gospel (could be under rock, pop, R&B, etc)
Classic Rock (under rock)
Dancehall
Easy Listening
Field Recordings
Folk, World, & Country (duplicative)
Funk / Soul (under R&B)
Hard Rock & Metal (under rock or metal)
Holiday
Indie & Alternative (under rock)
Industrial (under rock or electronic)
International
Military
Musical Theatre and Entertainment
Non-Music
Opera
Psychedelia
Punk (under rock)
Regional Music
Religious
Sound Effects & Nature
Soundtracks (a sound track has to be some kind of other music)
Spoken Word
Stage & Screen
Vocal
World Music

Which gives us this list, provided I copied correctly. Ones listed in red are ones I think we can further omit, with explanation below.

Pared down list
Ambient
Avant-Garde
Blues
Classical
Country
Dance
Electronic
Experimental
Folk
Hip Hop
Jazz
Latin Music
Metal
Miscellaneous
New Age
Pop
R&B
Reggae (Ska, Dub)
Rock
Singer/Songwriter
Ska

A few notes here:

- I took some liberty in removing the "regional" / "world" / etc labels in favor of Latin Music and Reggae. I agree with Baystate that it would be nice to combine Reggae, Ska, and Dub into a Caribbean category and that African and Asian should have their own categories as well. Personally, I would find this very useful.

- Maybe it is controversial to remove some of the theater / holiday / broadway genres? Personally I think most of that could be tagged as another genre, though we might need a fallback just in case. Which leads me to...

- Avant-garde and experimental are obviously very close, so we would want to cut one of them. I'm not even sure experimental is a fitting category; I saw the analysis in the other thread about how most "experimental" music on RYM can be tagged as some other genre. I do think that we'll need something to tag weird releases with. Even if we don't use ambient, drone, or field recordings as top level genres there are still albums on the site that fit those categories. I like experimental better than Miscellaneous, but not everything that doesn't fit into a category (comedy, spoken word, opera) is experimental. So Miscellaneous might actually be the better catchall.

- I didn't note Singer/Songwriter as a non-controversial omission, but I think it's safe to say most if not all singer/songwriter stuff could be tagged as rock or pop.

- I'm not opposed to keeping both Dance and Electronic only because there's a big difference between Disco and Autechre. But I think the line between dance and pop would be hard to draw, so labeling it all as electronic is probably the best way to avoid uncertainty.

- I think Ambient could probably roll up under Electronic as well, though obviously it's not all electronic. Otherwise could be experimental/miscellaneous. I'm not really convinced there's enough of it for a top level genre though.

- Metal is really tough. I'm sure searching on only metal albums would be useful for a lot of people. But having a separate category for it but rolling all jazz and hip hop together seems to be giving preference to the more common genres here. And the line between what is rock and what is metal can be blurry sometimes. I think I'd lean towards omitting it but I don't have much of a preference.

So after all that my list would look pretty much like Baystate's, with the only differences being whether we need ambient and how to handle experimental/miscellaneous. I personally wouldn't be opposed to both Experimental (for drone, field recordings, etc) and Miscellaneous (for comedy, broadway, theater, etc) but I wonder if that's getting too detailed.

Re: Genre list discussion

baystateoftheart — Sun, 24 May 2020 11:13:21 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 05/24/2020 15:13

albummaster wrote:

The opening lists will have come from the biggest music databases on the internet, and we can be certain that thousands of engineering hours have already been put into coming up with them, so all bases should be covered by adapting a combination of these for own use on BEA.

They are useful reference points for discussion, but I respectfully disagree with what's in bold. This was my suggested top-level list from the other thread:

African
Ambient
Asian
Blues
Caribbean
Classical
Country
Electronic
Folk
Hip-Hop
Jazz
Latin American
Metal [open to this being absorbed into rock]
Miscellaneous [for when none of the other top-levels apply]
New Age
Pop
R&B
Rock

Also, I would say our top-level genres should be designed with the goal of categorizing albums in general. The top 500 sample, while perhaps a useful reference point for discussion, is very unrepresentative.

Re: Genre list discussion

albummaster — Sun, 24 May 2020 10:15:10 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 05/24/2020 14:15

Accepted categories:
[to be added]

Debated categories:
[to be added]

Rejected categories:
[to be added]

Re: Genre list discussion

albummaster — Sun, 24 May 2020 10:14:59 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 05/24/2020 14:14

Consolidated list compiled by babyBlueSedan (before any removals or merges)

Ambient
Avant-Garde
Blues
Brass & Military
Broadway & Vocalists
Children's
Christian & Gospel
Classical
Classic Rock
Comedy
Country
Dance
Dancehall
Easy Listening
Electronic
Experimental
Field Recordings
Folk
Folk, World, & Country
Funk / Soul
Hard Rock & Metal
Hip Hop (and Rap)
Holiday
Indie & Alternative
Industrial
International
Jazz
Latin Music
Metal
Military
Miscellaneous
Musical Theatre and Entertainment
New Age (and Easy Listening)
Non-Music
Opera
Pop (and/or Rock)
Psychedelia
Punk
R&B (and Soul)
Reggae (Ska, Dub)
Regional Music
Religious
Rock
Singer/Songwriter
Ska
Sound Effects & Nature
Soundtracks
Spoken Word
Stage & Screen
Vocal
World Music

Re: Genre list discussion

albummaster — Sun, 24 May 2020 10:13:06 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 05/24/2020 14:13

AllMusic Genre Categories:
Avant-Garde
Blues
Children's
Classical
Comedy/Spoken
Country
Easy Listening
Electronic
Folk
Holiday
International
Jazz
Latin
New Age
Pop/Rock
R&B
Rap
Reggae
Religious
Stage & Screen
Vocal

Amazon Genre Categories:
Blues
Broadway & Vocalists
Children's Music
Christian & Gospel
Classical
Classic Rock
Country
Dance & Electronic
Folk
Hard Rock & Metal
Holiday
Indie & Alternative
International
Jazz
Latin Music
Miscellaneous
New Age
Opera
Pop
R&B
Rap & Hip-Hop
Rock
Soundtracks

Discogs Genre Categories:
Blues
Brass & Military
Children's
Classical
Country
Dancehall
Electronic
Folk, World, & Country
Funk / Soul
Hip Hop
Jazz
Latino
Non-Music
Pop
Reggae
Rock
Stage & Screen

eBay Genre Categories:
Genre
Blues
Children's
Classical
Comedy & Spoken Word
Country
Dance & Electronica
Folk
Holiday
Jazz
Latin
Metal
Military
New Age & Easy Listening
Pop
R&B & Soul
Rap & Hip-Hop
Reggae, Ska & Dub
Religious & Devotional
Rock
Sound Effects & Nature
Soundtracks & Musicals
World Music

RYM Genre Categories:
Ambient
Blues
Classical Music
Comedy
Country
Dance
Electronic
Experimental
Field Recordings
Folk
Hip Hop
Industrial Music
Jazz
Metal
Musical Theatre and Entertainment
New Age
Pop
Psychedelia
Punk
R&B
Regional Music
Rock
Singer/Songwriter
Ska
Sounds and Effects
Spoken Word

[Other major sites welcome to be added but I think the above is probably enough]

Sample data (overall top 500 top 1,000 one album per artist):

Code:

OK Computer - Radiohead
The Dark Side Of The Moon - Pink Floyd
Abbey Road - The Beatles
The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars - David Bowie
The Velvet Underground & Nico - The Velvet Underground & Nico
Untitled (Led Zeppelin IV) - Led Zeppelin
Pet Sounds - The Beach Boys
In The Aeroplane Over The Sea - Neutral Milk Hotel
Nevermind - Nirvana
Doolittle - Pixies
The Queen Is Dead - The Smiths
London Calling - The Clash
Is This It - The Strokes
Loveless - My Bloody Valentine
Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan
To Pimp A Butterfly - Kendrick Lamar
In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson
Rumours - Fleetwood Mac
The Doors - The Doors
Remain In Light - Talking Heads
The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
Unknown Pleasures - Joy Division
My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - Kanye West
Who's Next - The Who
Are You Experienced - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
Kind Of Blue - Miles Davis
Disintegration - The Cure
Exile On Main St. - The Rolling Stones
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot - Wilco
Illinois - Sufjan Stevens
Marquee Moon - Television
The Joshua Tree - U2
Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not - Arctic Monkeys
Ten - Pearl Jam
Pink Moon - Nick Drake
(What's The Story) Morning Glory? - Oasis
Siamese Dream - The Smashing Pumpkins
Automatic For The People - R.E.M.
Grace - Jeff Buckley
Astral Weeks - Van Morrison
Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
Lonerism - Tame Impala
ÃgÃ¦tis Byrjun - Sigur RÃ³s
Daydream Nation - Sonic Youth
Paranoid - Black Sabbath
Weezer (The Blue Album) - Weezer
What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
Forever Changes - Love
Illmatic - Nas
Dummy - Portishead
After The Gold Rush - Neil Young
A Love Supreme - John Coltrane
Thriller - Michael Jackson
Hounds Of Love - Kate Bush
Turn On The Bright Lights - Interpol
Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven - Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Blue - Joni Mitchell
Purple Rain - Prince And The Revolution
For Emma, Forever Ago - Bon Iver
A Night At The Opera - Queen
A Rush Of Blood To The Head - Coldplay
Spiderland - Slint
Madvillainy - Madvillain
Sound Of Silver - LCD Soundsystem
Elephant - The White Stripes
Odessey And Oracle - The Zombies
Rain Dogs - Tom Waits
Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots - The Flaming Lips
Appetite For Destruction - Guns N' Roses
Close To The Edge - Yes
Merriweather Post Pavilion - Animal Collective
The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground
Master Of Puppets - Metallica
Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols - Sex Pistols
Homogenic - BjÃ¶rk
The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady - Charles Mingus
Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon & Garfunkel
Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
Modern Vampires Of The City - Vampire Weekend
If You're Feeling Sinister - Belle And Sebastian
Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine
Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) - Wu-Tang Clan
Demon Days - Gorillaz
Innervisions - Stevie Wonder
Blonde - Frank Ocean
High Violet - The National
The Moon & Antarctica - Modest Mouse
Souvlaki - Slowdive
Violator - Depeche Mode
Transformer - Lou Reed
Songs For The Deaf - Queens Of The Stone Age
Graceland - Paul Simon
Either/Or - Elliott Smith
Back In Black - AC/DC
Selling England By The Pound - Genesis
Endtroducing..... - DJ Shadow
All Things Must Pass - George Harrison
John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band - John Lennon
The Downward Spiral - Nine Inch Nails
Discovery - Daft Punk
Tago Mago - Can
Spirit Of Eden - Talk Talk
Teen Dream - Beach House
American Idiot - Green Day
Mezzanine - Massive Attack
Moving Pictures - Rush
Blood Sugar Sex Magik - Red Hot Chili Peppers
Songs Of Leonard Cohen - Leonard Cohen
The Low End Theory - A Tribe Called Quest
Lost In The Dream - The War On Drugs
Hot Fuss - The Killers
Absolution - Muse
Lateralus - Tool
Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain - Pavement
The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society - The Kinks
Another Green World - Brian Eno
Since I Left You - The Avalanches
The Glow Pt. 2 - The Microphones
Ys - Joanna Newsom
Different Class - Pulp
Horses - Patti Smith
Fun House - The Stooges
Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes
Hospice - The Antlers
Superunknown - Soundgarden
Parklife - Blur
Trout Mask Replica - Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band
Paul's Boutique - Beastie Boys
An Awesome Wave - alt-J
Ramones - Ramones
Teens Of Denial - Car Seat Headrest
Cosmo's Factory - Creedence Clearwater Revival
Hot Rats - Frank Zappa
The Money Store - Death Grips
Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere - Neil Young With Crazy Horse
Odelay - Beck
Ladies And Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space - Spiritualized
Back To Black - Amy Winehouse
Dirt - Alice In Chains
Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs - Derek & The Dominos
Aja - Steely Dan
Brothers In Arms - Dire Straits
Sign 'O' The Times - Prince
Heaven Or Las Vegas - Cocteau Twins
It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
Moon Safari - Air
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road - Elton John
Selected Ambient Works 85-92 - Aphex Twin
The Band - The Band
The Marshall Mathers LP - Eminem
Halcyon Digest - Deerhunter
Let It Be - The Replacements
Thick As A Brick - Jethro Tull
Disraeli Gears - Cream
To Be Kind - Swans
You Forgot It In People - Broken Social Scene
Hotel California - Eagles
Machine Head - Deep Purple
I Love You, Honeybear - Father John Misty
Tapestry - Carole King
Urban Hymns - The Verve
Raw Power - Iggy And The Stooges
Power, Corruption & Lies - New Order
The Stranger - Billy Joel
So - Peter Gabriel
Band On The Run - Paul McCartney & Wings
xx - The xx
Psychocandy - The Jesus And Mary Chain
Crime Of The Century - Supertramp
Trans-Europa Express - Kraftwerk
Oracular Spectacular - MGMT
You're Living All Over Me - Dinosaur Jr.
Screamadelica - Primal Scream
The Number Of The Beast - Iron Maiden
This Year's Model - Elvis Costello
American Beauty - Grateful Dead
Music Has The Right To Children - Boards Of Canada
Parallel Lines - Blondie
The Cars - The Cars
Pink Flag - Wire
Let England Shake - PJ Harvey
Ready To Die - The Notorious B.I.G.
Brothers - The Black Keys
Exodus - Bob Marley & The Wailers
Time Out - The Dave Brubeck Quartet
DÃ©jÃ Vu - Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
Perfect From Now On - Built To Spill
Sea Change - Beck
Aquemini - OutKast
Toxicity - System Of A Down
Double Nickels On The Dime - Minutemen
At Folsom Prison - Johnny Cash
Takk... - Sigur RÃ³s
Boston - Boston
Electric Warrior - T. Rex
Bookends - Simon & Garfunkel
The Colour And The Shape - Foo Fighters
Silent Alarm - Bloc Party
( ) - Sigur RÃ³s
Entertainment! - Gang Of Four
The Idler Wheel Is Wiser Than The Driver Of The Screw And Whipping Cords Will Serve You More Than Ropes Will Ever Do - Fiona Apple
Liquid Swords - GZA
Synchronicity - The Police
Jagged Little Pill - Alanis Morissette
Chutes Too Narrow - The Shins
The Devil And God Are Raging Inside Me - Brand New
I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning - Bright Eyes
Surrealistic Pillow - Jefferson Airplane
Melodrama - Lorde
Benji - Sun Kil Moon
Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables - Dead Kennedys
Veckatimest - Grizzly Bear
Transatlanticism - Death Cab For Cutie
Long Season - ã�'•ã‚£ã�'�'ã‚·ã�'¥ã�'žã�'³ã‚º [Fishmans]
Atrocity Exhibition - Danny Brown
Flower Boy - Tyler, The Creator
On Fire - Galaxie 500
Days Of Future Passed - The Moody Blues
Nowhere - Ride
Emergency & I - The Dismemberment Plan
Untrue - Burial
The Boatman's Call - Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
Van Halen - Van Halen
Person Pitch - Panda Bear
Otis Blue / Otis Redding Sings Soul - Otis Redding
Run The Jewels 2 - Run The Jewels
The Black Parade - My Chemical Romance
Ram - Paul & Linda McCartney
Franz Ferdinand - Franz Ferdinand
Skylarking - XTC
At Fillmore East - The Allman Brothers Band
Rust Never Sleeps - Neil Young & Crazy Horse
There's A Riot Goin' On - Sly & The Family Stone
The Modern Lovers - The Modern Lovers
69 Love Songs - The Magnetic Fields
Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt
#1 Record - Big Star
Born To Die - Lana Del Rey
Art Angels - Grimes
The Holy Bible - Manic Street Preachers
In The Wee Small Hours - Frank Sinatra
Maggot Brain - Funkadelic
Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix - Phoenix (FR)
(pronounced 'lÄ•h-'nÃ©rd 'skin-'nÃ©rd) - Lynyrd Skynyrd
Elvis Presley - Elvis Presley
Give Up - The Postal Service
Deathconsciousness - Have A Nice Life
Crosby, Stills & Nash - Crosby, Stills & Nash
The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill - Lauryn Hill
Salad Days - Mac DeMarco
American Football - American Football
Zen Arcade - HÃ¼sker DÃ¼
Rust In Peace - Megadeth
Kids See Ghosts - Kids See Ghosts
I Can Hear The Heart Beating As One - Yo La Tengo
Dog Man Star - Suede
I Never Loved A Man The Way I Love You - Aretha Franklin
Getz/Gilberto - Stan Getz & JoÃ£o Gilberto
Fear Of A Blank Planet - Porcupine Tree
Songs From The Big Chair - Tears For Fears
Donuts - J Dilla
Sounds Of Silence - Simon & Garfunkel
The Chronic - Dr. Dre
Freak Out! - The Mothers Of Invention
The Shape Of Jazz To Come - Ornette Coleman
The ArchAndroid - Janelle MonÃ¡e
St. Vincent - St. Vincent
Ocean Rain - Echo & The Bunnymen
Sunbather - Deafheaven
The Mollusk - Ween
De-Loused In The Comatorium - The Mars Volta
Play - Moby
Sometimes I Sit And Think, And Sometimes I Just Sit - Courtney Barnett
Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman
Up The Bracket - The Libertines
Hurry Up, We're Dreaming - M83
Out Of The Blue - Electric Light Orchestra
Hissing Fauna, Are You The Destroyer? - of Montreal
The Earth Is Not A Cold Dead Place - Explosions In The Sky
Head Hunters - Herbie Hancock
For Your Pleasure - Roxy Music
21 - Adele
Relationship Of Command - At The Drive-In
Bee Thousand - Guided By Voices
Histoire De Melody Nelson - Serge Gainsbourg
Kaputt - Destroyer
Tea For The Tillerman - Cat Stevens
Titanic Rising - Weyes Blood
Straight Outta Compton - N.W.A
Angel Dust - Faith No More
Ritual De Lo Habitual - Jane's Addiction
Suicide - Suicide
Reign In Blood - Slayer
The Blueprint - Jay-Z
Tubular Bells - Mike Oldfield
Abraxas - Santana
Hysteria - Def Leppard
The Seldom Seen Kid - Elbow
Dear Science - TV On The Radio
Hand. Cannot. Erase. - Steven Wilson
Black Messiah - D'Angelo And The Vanguard
Parsley, Sage, Rosemary And Thyme - Simon & Garfunkel
August And Everything After - Counting Crows
Music For 18 Musicians - Steve Reich
Lust For Life - Iggy Pop
Repeater - Fugazi
3 Feet High And Rising - De La Soul
Little Earthquakes - Tori Amos
The Fat Of The Land - The Prodigy
White Pony - Deftones
Throwing Copper - Live
Voodoo - D'Angelo
Sublime - Sublime
Here's Little Richard - Little Richard
Bat Out Of Hell - Meat Loaf
Lemonade - BeyoncÃ©
Cosmogramma - Flying Lotus
Clube Da Esquina - Milton Nascimento / LÃ´ Borges
Red House Painters (Rollercoaster) - Red House Painters
Superfly - Curtis Mayfield
Full Moon Fever - Tom Petty
Suede - Suede
Acabou Chorare - Novos Baianos
Ray Of Light - Madonna
Eâ€¢MOâ€¢TION - Carly Rae Jepsen
In Colour - Jamie xx
Lungs - Florence + The Machine
Electro-Shock Blues - Eels
Hopes And Fears - Keane
Chelsea Girl - Nico
A Crow Looked At Me - Mount Eerie
Mm.. Food - MF DOOM
You Won't Get What You Want - Daughters
Acid Rap - Chance The Rapper
Pure Heroine - Lorde
Pretenders - Pretenders
Crazy Rhythms - The Feelies
The Wild Hunt - The Tallest Man On Earth
Have You In My Wilderness - Julia Holter
Fever To Tell - Yeah Yeah Yeahs
My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts - Brian Eno & David Byrne
Live At The Apollo - James Brown
PiÃ±ata - Freddie Gibbs & Madlib
Images And Words - Dream Theater
Deserter's Songs - Mercury Rev
Sigh No More - Mumford & Sons
Dusty In Memphis - Dusty Springfield
Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers - Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers
Enema Of The State - Blink-182
Misplaced Childhood - Marillion
Pearl - Janis Joplin
The La's - The La's
Rio - Duran Duran
Steve McQueen - Prefab Sprout
Brian Wilson Presents Smile - Brian Wilson
Lady In Satin - Billie Holiday
Hybrid Theory - Linkin Park
The Nightfly - Donald Fagen
Joy As An Act Of Resistance. - Idles
Brilliant Corners - Thelonious Monk
The Crane Wife - The Decemberists
Mirage - Camel
The Eraser - Thom Yorke
All Mod Cons - The Jam
Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga - Spoon
Operation: Mindcrime - QueensrÃ¿che
I Am A Bird Now - Antony & The Johnsons
Os Mutantes - Os Mutantes
Artaud - Pescado Rabioso
Saxophone Colossus - Sonny Rollins
A TÃ¡bua De Esmeralda - Jorge Ben
Chuck Berry Is On Top - Chuck Berry
Purple - Stone Temple Pilots
Silent Shout - The Knife
The Modern Dance - Pere Ubu
Mothership Connection - Parliament
Rum Sodomy & The Lash - The Pogues
O - Damien Rice
Exile In Guyville - Liz Phair
Mogwai Young Team - Mogwai
Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! - Devo
James Blake - James Blake
Doggystyle - Snoop Dogg
Faust IV - Faust
Metal Box - Public Image Ltd.
Damn The Torpedoes - Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers
Toys In The Attic - Aerosmith
The Infamous... - Mobb Deep
The Notorious Byrd Brothers - The Byrds
Live Through This - Hole
Saturation III - Brockhampton
Car Wheels On A Gravel Road - Lucinda Williams
Bitte Orca - Dirty Projectors
The Epic - Kamasi Washington
Only By The Night - Kings Of Leon
Juju - Siouxsie And The Banshees
Neu! - Neu!
Buena Vista Social Club - Buena Vista Social Club
Continuum - John Mayer
Blunderbuss - Jack White
"Awaken, My Love!" - Childish Gambino
The Shape Of Punk To Come - Refused
Heartbreaker - Ryan Adams
Blackwater Park - Opeth
Wide Awake! - Parquet Courts
Get Happy!! - Elvis Costello & The Attractions
Out To Lunch! - Eric Dolphy
Nonagon Infinity - King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard
Script Of The Bridge - The Chameleons
Kick - INXS
Torches - Foster The People
Crack The Skye - Mastodon
Deja Entendu - Brand New
The "Chirping" Crickets - The Crickets
Heart Of The Congos - The Congos
Z - My Morning Jacket
Third - Soft Machine
Somethin' Else - Cannonball Adderley
Damaged - Black Flag
We Are The 21st Century Ambassadors Of Peace And Magic - Foxygen
Kala - M.I.A. (UK)
The Score - Fugees
LP1 - FKA Twigs
The United States Of America - The United States Of America
Rising - Rainbow
Catch A Fire - The Wailers
Karma - Pharoah Sanders
Dopethrone - Electric Wizard
This Nation's Saving Grace - The Fall
Pastel Blues - Nina Simone
The B-52's - The B-52's
Last Splash - The Breeders
The Psychedelic Sounds Of The 13th Floor Elevators - 13th Floor Elevators
The KÃ¶ln Concert - Keith Jarrett
Take Care - Drake
Starsailor - Tim Buckley
Jailbreak - Thin Lizzy
Smash - The Offspring
My Woman - Angel Olsen
The Madcap Laughs - Syd Barrett
Specials - The Specials
Without You I'm Nothing - Placebo
Paris 1919 - John Cale
Original Pirate Material - The Streets
Moanin' In The Moonlight - Howlin' Wolf
I See A Darkness - Bonnie 'Prince' Billy
Dare - The Human League
The Basement Tapes - Bob Dylan & The Band
Malibu - Anderson .Paak
In The Land Of Grey And Pink - Caravan
Scott 4 - Scott Walker
Bleed American - Jimmy Eat World
Maxinquaye - Tricky
Santana - Santana
Alvvays - Alvvays
All Eyez On Me - 2Pac
So Tonight That I Might See - Mazzy Star
Hosianna Mantra - Popol Vuh
Amok - Atoms For Peace
Band Of Gypsys - Jimi Hendrix
The Magnolia Electric Co. - Songs: Ohia
The Sophtware Slump - Grandaddy
Attack On Memory - Cloud Nothings
New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) - Simple Minds
TNT - Tortoise
Ace Of Spades - MotÃ¶rhead
The Traveling Wilburys, Vol. 1 - The Traveling Wilburys
Meat Puppets II - Meat Puppets
Royal Blood - Royal Blood
Who Will Cut Our Hair When We're Gone? - The Unicorns
The '59 Sound - The Gaslight Anthem
King Of The Delta Blues Singers - Robert Johnson
Liege & Lief - Fairport Convention
Diesel And Dust - Midnight Oil
Paid In Full - Eric B. & Rakim
Psychic - Darkside
Golden Hour - Kacey Musgraves
Buddy Holly - Buddy Holly
Fire Of Love - The Gun Club
Cheap Thrills - Big Brother And The Holding Company
S.F. Sorrow - The Pretty Things
Tragic Kingdom - No Doubt
Third Eye Blind - Third Eye Blind
Welcome To Sky Valley - Kyuss
Just Another Diamond Day - Vashti Bunyan
Jane Doe - Converge
Pom Pom - Ariel Pink
Vision Creation Newsun - ã�'œã‚¢ã�'€ã�' ã‚¹ [Boredoms]
Townes Van Zandt - Townes Van Zandt
â€ (Cross) - Justice
I Could Live In Hope - Low
West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum - Kasabian
Music For The Jilted Generation - The Prodigy
Celebration Rock - Japandroids
Y - The Pop Group
Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030
No Need To Argue - The Cranberries
Pills 'N' Thrills And Bellyaches - Happy Mondays
Blink-182 - Blink-182
Emperor Tomato Ketchup - Stereolab
Singles Going Steady - Buzzcocks
Melophobia - Cage The Elephant
Some Rap Songs - Earl Sweatshirt
The Man Who - Travis
Argus - Wishbone Ash
CanciÃ³n Animal - Soda Stereo
Garbage - Garbage
Temple Of The Dog - Temple Of The Dog
MeÃ° SuÃ° Ã Eyrum ViÃ° Spilum Endalaust - Sigur RÃ³s
Our Endless Numbered Days - Iron & Wine
Cold Fact - Rodriguez
Blind Faith - Blind Faith
At Last! - Etta James
Ctrl - SZA
The Monitor - Titus Andronicus
A Brief Inquiry Into Online Relationships - The 1975
Setting Sons - The Jam
Fallen - Evanescence
This Is The Sea - The Waterboys
New York Dolls - New York Dolls

(Copied from a CSV file so a few characters aren't encoded properly. Might be a few duplicate artists as compiled manually)

Genre list discussion

albummaster — Sun, 24 May 2020 10:12:56 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 05/24/2020 14:12

Apologies for the delay in doing this but finally got the time to post here to open up (& continue) the debate about possible top-level genre categories on BEA. Spyglass suggested in another thread to create a candidate list that gets us a bit closer to implementing something on BEA, so just kicking off discussion again here. We all have our own views in certain areas and I'm not somebody who enjoys conflict, so I really want to try and do it in the best spirit possible, accepting that not everybody will get their own way.

The big thing that struck me from the previous discussion was the number of 'rock' derivative categories that were suggested compared to other styles of music. It's true that BEA has a big proportion of albums in this category and splitting it down further might help to break the numbers down, but equally the site needs to be balanced across the whole music spectrum as it's already accused externally of being a bit biased towards certain styles of music, and a category list weighted too much in one area will just reinforce that view.

To set out my own position, I believe the site needs between 12 and 20 top level 'categories' or 'genres' that each album can 'belong' to (some albums may belong to more than one category). These top level categories will provide a way for users to distinguish between different styles of music and help narrow down those that they'd like to check out further. Of course, music is much more nuanced than that, and the categories would also be supported by a tagging system which will add some further fine tuning (the tagging system will be added further down the line).

Just going with Spyglass suggestion (as seems to be quite sensible) that the original post needs three lists: one for accepted genres, one for debated genres, and one for rejected genres (plus some sample data which we can use for testing what might work the best).

The opening lists will have come from the biggest music databases on the internet, and we can be certain that thousands of engineering hours have already been put into coming up with them, so all bases should be covered by adapting a combination of these for own use on BEA. I'm going to put these lists in the following post to keep this one as short as possible (I may need to revise this post once we get started as not sure where this is going to go right now).

We could have a go at trimming these lists down to a set of categories that will work on BEA and try and find some type of consensus, but I think we should let that discussion evolve in this thread to see what people think. It also might be that the lists only make sense within themselves, and an amalgamation of all of them might be a bit messy, but we'll see how things pan out and nothing's set in stone. (To put it on the table, personally prefer AllMusic's schema if we look at them individually, but would feel a bit funny simply lifting it and it's probably not quite right for BEA).