Best Ever Albums

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 16:36:41 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/08/2020 20:36

I especially agree with the last paragraph.

I think hair metal and glam metal are practically interchangeable. Long hair in rock bands has been a staple since the late-60's. Led Zeppelin were one of the original hair rock bands, but I'm not going to start with putting a blues and folk band from the late-60's in an early 80's pop scene.

I'm also of the opinion that Van Halen's 1984 would be more fit as a straight up "pop metal" album, which some have used to interchange with hair metal, but is more undefined. 1984's sound also fits the AOR bill, similarly to bands like Harem Scarem or Magnum. "Jump" is a perfect example of the 80's AOR sound, although I'll agree on "Panama" and maybe "Hot for Teacher," even though I feel a sense of punk from that one. Otherwise, 1984's all over the place when it comes to 80's rock scenes. The debut needed a little more pop in it (and to be delayed for three years) for me to consider it hair metal. The Hagar album 5150 (third best of the whole catalogue) has its 80's traits, undoubtedly, but it's still very close to the AOR scene.

I imagine that drawing a line between AOR and hair metal might be hard too, especially since we've got middle-ground bands like Icon.

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

RockyRaccoon — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 16:20:40 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 06/08/2020 20:20

Spyglass wrote:

Pretty good chart, btw.

Thanks!

But I can see the argument against GNR being hair metal. That being said, they certainly had some music that was very in the style of hair metal (I mean, November Rain is one of the greatest power ballads of all time).

As for Van Halen, I'd have a hard time classifying them as anything but hair metal. "Hard rock" is such a nebulous term, it's like saying they're "rock." Sure, they are hard rock, but so is Motley Crue. I'd say they're also hair metal.

The thing that makes hair metal a tough genre to classify is the term "hair metal" was sort of a derogatory term given to the genre in the early-90s. Up until then, it was sort of the next generation of glam or pop rock or whatever you might wanna call it. Hair metal certainly has some defining traits to it, without a doubt, but like I said, it's difficult to come up with a strong, simple definition of the genre.

And to be honest, in the long run, the finer points of genre classification is just a fun debate for music nerds like us to have. Is Van Halen hair metal? GNR? Maybe? Maybe not? Ultimately, who cares? Still fun to talk about though

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:35:59 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/08/2020 14:35

I agree that GNR's roots are there, but they left the getup before AFD was released, so it's hard to set a mark on their status thereof. I can't find myself incorporating Van Halen as a whole. Their primary focus wasn't production, even on 1984, although they liked mixing up the styles they tackled despite staying in the hard rock realm. But everything after VH2 wasn't as metallic, even when Hagar was brough it, and their first two albums lean a little too far on metal and blues, only occasionally getting into pop territory, like that Kinks cover.

Pretty good chart, btw.

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

RockyRaccoon — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:17:53 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 06/08/2020 14:17

Hair metal is one of my favorite genres ever, but defining it can be a bit tricky. It's sort of a "you know it when you see it."

I do think a large part of hair metal is visual, because how do you not look at this and go "oh yea, that's hair metal"

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

There is a bit of a formula to hair metal, it's sorta T. Rex and the New York Dolls on copious amounts of cocaine. Loud, pop-influenced hard rock, shredding guitar, rock tenor lead singer, and likely a power ballad or two tossed in each album.

But, defining it isn't all that simple. Is Guns N Roses hair metal? They sure look like it

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

But do they sound like it? Hard to say. I could see the argument for GNR being hair metal, they do follow the formula, but generally they're a bit heavier than your typical hair metal band.

But then again I think we can all agree that Skid Row is a hair metal band, right? But if you give Slave to the Grind a listen, it's about as heavy as a hair metal album can get (probably about as heavy as anything GNR did).

And to the point of GNR being hair metal, their roots certainly are in hair metal as the band came from members of L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose (hence the name)

Then we've got Van Halen, who I definitely think of as hair metal and, alongside Motley Crue, one of the pioneers of hair metal.

So ultimately, it's difficult to create a hard and fast definition of what hair metal is, just like it's difficult to create a hard and fast definition of what any genre is.

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 09:30:55 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/08/2020 13:30

That's an interpretation I'm unfamiliar with. Typically there an interchangeability between "glam" metal and "hair" metal. I have a friebd who knows a lot about hair metal and we discuss it on occasion. I recently read some reddit discussions about it, and one person said that GNR tried to break from it and that they represented the first stages of the 80's change from hair metal to less osbnoxious and typical forms of rock. Another stated that they shared some elemebts but they were still leaning too far on hard rock and blues rather than the pop sound.

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Anonymous — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 09:09:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/08/2020 13:09

There was a recent discussion on hair metal but I can't find it. Anyway, to me hair metal is a typical eighties thing because there is usually some big synths incorporated. Without the synths, it's less "cheap" and it's rather called Glam metal: more of an 70's typical thing.
Guns'n Roses is a return to glam metal, in reaction to the excess of synths during the 80's, as well as a swan song of the genre before grunge happens

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 00:23:17 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/08/2020 04:23

I get it, alright? Is it really worth wasting my time when I'm just trying to make conversation?

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

cestuneblague — Mon, 8 Jun 2020 00:01:35 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 06/08/2020 04:01

I like to experiment with what I call... sound-shapes

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Sun, 7 Jun 2020 01:05:02 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/07/2020 05:05

CryingGameDahlin wrote:

Was this thread written by Bruce McCullough?

What does that even mean?

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

cestuneblague — Sun, 7 Jun 2020 00:15:13 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 06/07/2020 04:15

Was this thread written by Bruce McCullough?

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Skinny — Sat, 6 Jun 2020 23:27:03 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 06/07/2020 03:27

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:30:50 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/06/2020 16:30

If you don't want to "split hairs," then how's this? The albums need to have a very "poppy" sound for a hard rock/heavy metal album. If it's not poppy enough, it's not hair metal. Sure, a few songs on Appetite are poppy, but it's not enough to call the album or the band hair metal. Van Halen had some poppiness now and then, but the scene didn't even evolve until the early 80's, and Van Halen were far too diversified for a hair metal tag.

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:21:26 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/06/2020 16:21

saltfish wrote:

Spyglass wrote:

about splitting hair (metal)

And this is supposed to convince me that I'm wrong with what level of logic again?

Not to be rude, but this is a very simple pseudo-argument that doesn't accomplish any sense of contradiction or distribute any logical viewpoints. All you're doing is expressing annoyance over something that makes for a decent discussion. If this is an "argument," then it's not a very good one. If you're willing to discuss the matter, then you can throw in something worth reading.

Musical styles and scenes have specifics. People lump lots of 80's bands in all the time.

Re: There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Anonymous — Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:18:13 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/06/2020 16:18

Spyglass wrote:

about splitting hair (metal)

There seems to be some confusion about hair metal here.

Spyglass — Sat, 6 Jun 2020 11:59:08 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 06/06/2020 15:59

In shortening this so people don't further interpret an adult discussion as something else.

I'm addressing the notion that certain bands are hair metal, notably Guns 'N' Roses and Van Halen. It's an understandable view, but it's also an easy mistake to make. See, THE never wanted to be associated with it. Their music was too mature and not as "poppy" as other acts. And they never had a constant/ direct focus on production, which is the staple for AOR and hair metal. Van Halen was similar, even though they had some traits chaired with hair metal bands. But Van Halen I'd a 1978 band, and hair metal didn't emerge until 1981 when Motley Crue released their debut.

PS: I'd like to hear a discussion about this (as opposed to pointless trolling which does nothing but make the trolls below me look like children, so forgive me if that seems rude, but the trolling is also rude. I've been trying to breathe some life here when the rest of the world is busy with the virus, so acknowledge that at the least).