Best Ever Albums

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Spyglass — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 13:50:37 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 09/07/2020 17:50

There aren't very many real satanists in music. Even Euronymous was a bit of a bullshitter for attention's sake. With Mayhem, he wasn't trying to start a cult, just a cult act. I'll even listen to King Diamond's music. He's not a traditional "satanist," just a guy who believes the devil was a fictional figure who's misunderstood and actually stands for morality. As a Christian, I do have a problem with that belief, but I think there's a huge difference if he's not a "believer."

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

RoundTheBend — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 13:46:49 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 09/07/2020 17:46

Skinny wrote:

I listen to lots of rappers whose lyrics - and, with them, their entire professional personas - are extremely capitalistic, homophobic, misogynistic, and often antisemitic. It goes without saying that these are all things I fundamentally disagree with, and call out frequently in real life. I haven't really figured out how to reconcile these two facts, and have essentially given up trying at this point. I am an adult whose own education and forthright belief system allows me to enjoy their music without being influenced by, or agreeing with, its messages. I understand that younger, less informed, more malleable minds might not be able to do so, and this worries me, especially in my position as an educator.

I don't have any great conclusions to draw, nor do I have the motivation to pick at that particular scab.

I feel like this is a great representation on how you can appreciate something, even love something, that doesn't represent your own ideals. Which as an educated person is key. Being able to see the world through someone else's eyes and all. I mean of course there's going to be things you don't engage with, but can understand, which I think makes the world a better place, to be honest. The more we can appreciate opposing views the more you can grow up to be a push over like me... I mean... uh understand people and not murder them.

To be honest for a while I couldn't get into Kendrick when he first blew up because I was like why is this guy into his dick so much. I don't think I heard any other rapper rap so much about his dick. It turned me off. But then I listened to For Free? with new ears and realized he was talking as much about racism/being a black man more than he was about his dick, although it was mentioned often. Once I understood the context (at least for that track), it switched from, dude, can you like focus on something else besides your dick, to wow, that was a really powerful track.

Perspective is key. Context is key.

Ok - I like philosophy a bit/or philosophical conversations/thinking out loud, even if I suck at it, so I apologize. I'll shut up now.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

RoundTheBend — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 13:36:40 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 09/07/2020 17:36

LedZep wrote:

Beck is not a member of Scientology anymore (at least he claims so), and Slayer is not a very satanic band tbh. But great write up, I appreciate your thoughts on this even if I don't agree with everything said.

Thanks!

And yeah there's a lot of back and forth on Beck. I'm glad he's recently coming and saying, yo, there's a difference between me and Cruise. I have cultural ties to it - my ex-wife, my father, the school I went to, etc. - I read this big Scientology conspiracy theory on him and how he killed someone and covered it up using his power at Scientology and stuff - it's pretty intense-insane, and I guess all I'm saying is even if it were true, I'd still listen to his music. It's great music in my book, so basically anything dude ever did ever wouldn't detract from his music... unless of course his music was his bad thing - like he started singing about getting away with murder... and even if he did, I'd likely not listen to that song.

And you are right - Slayer is probably a little more in the Rob Zombie camp (or likely more like Rob Zombie is in the Slayer camp) of just doing things to incite people. Their pentagram symbology and lyrics at the time were pretty satanic, but truly believing satanists, it sounds like they were not. Satanism is kind of difficult to label tbh because it can take many different forms from both the practitioner and then it's interpretation by the observer. But I agree with you Slayer is not the most satanic music ever written.

Also I'm more curious than anything (not looking to start an argument, rather a discussion) on which points you disagree with. If PM makes more sense, I'm down.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Spyglass — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 11:19:05 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 09/07/2020 15:19

You're a teacher? I guess when I said you practically write essays on the forums I wasn't off the mark. 😁

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Skinny — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 11:07:15 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 09/07/2020 15:07

I listen to lots of rappers whose lyrics - and, with them, their entire professional personas - are extremely capitalistic, homophobic, misogynistic, and often antisemitic. It goes without saying that these are all things I fundamentally disagree with, and call out frequently in real life. I haven't really figured out how to reconcile these two facts, and have essentially given up trying at this point. I am an adult whose own education and forthright belief system allows me to enjoy their music without being influenced by, or agreeing with, its messages. I understand that younger, less informed, more malleable minds might not be able to do so, and this worries me, especially in my position as an educator.

I don't have any great conclusions to draw, nor do I have the motivation to pick at that particular scab.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

LedZep — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 10:28:42 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 09/07/2020 14:28

Beck is not a member of Scientology anymore (at least he claims so), and Slayer is not a very satanic band tbh. But great write up, I appreciate your thoughts on this even if I don't agree with everything said.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

RoundTheBend — Mon, 7 Sep 2020 01:31:47 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 09/07/2020 05:31

I think Beck is a perfect example of discussion with this topic.

I've heard people dog on Beck's music because he is affiliated with the Church of Scientology. I'm not clear on how that makes his music garbage, but ok. If he started singing about it or like had Scientology symbolized all over his work, I guess that could rub someone the wrong way. I mean... idk, let's for one second sit back and realize that for some people religion is like the preference of which side of the bed to sleep on - or maybe even what position - you know like, side, back, stomach, etc. And then this kind of personal thing you find out about them... oh no, look at Jimmy, he's a slide sleeper... he's going straight to hell for that one! (Robin Williams joke quote at the end)... anyway...

Idk - I think dogmatic thoughts are untruthful (black and white world type thoughts), so (and apologies to anyone who thinks this way, just stating my opinion) I think it's pretty lame that anyone would discount someone because they don't think like them or they made a mistake... I fell like there's a lot of truth dogmatism buries to not allow you to see a bigger picture/the full light, if you will.

Music after all is the celebration of life and we are all human. I even like Burzum (for me the most believable black metal) and the ideals dude gets himself mixed up with I don't support.

Now musical taste is different or certain messages I can't jam with. Like the JesusMericuh © tribe is something I struggle dearly with. Like I have tried to see where they are coming from and there's a silver lining there of course. But anytime the lyric goes God is Great - Beer is Great, I just have competency struggles with their ability to make a decent rhyme or think of anything except the objects in front of them to sing about... I guess what I am really saying is that basic intelligence matters way more to me. And somehow I link that more to taste than morals/religion.

Idk - I suppose if someone came out with a song that was like "Hitler was a hero" or something horrendous like this, I'd first have to see if it was coming from Trevor Moore, because if it were I'd laugh cuz for me comedy has nearly no boundaries, but if not a comedian, then I might laugh again because if it were Rob Zombie then I'd be laughing at his want to get your attention (and I'd never give it)... but if actually with the intent to be malicious, absolutely would disregard/disrespect, invite others to do the same.

I guess there's lines that shouldn't be crossed and everyone decides those lines differently, but on the majority, in the right way.

I'm no longer Mormon, but one thing that's a bit trippy about The Book of Mormon is the first few chapters a prophet murders a government official to get the holy scriptures... I guess morality has it's exceptions is all I'm saying... oh and before you give Mormons a hard time, tell me again why Lots daughters got him drunk so they could sleep with him? Morality "exceptions" are wrought in all religions. Hence me appreciating the view of Marx on religion being the opiate for the masses. Whatever helps you sleep at night as we all try and survive this thing called life. We all need some kind of blinders on or our minds would explode.

By the way I think Satanic music is funny. I don't know why but nearly every time I put on a Slayer record it makes me laugh. It just tries to hard to be over the top, just like a really bad gospel record on "showing their faith" - it ends up somehow being a bit Vegas-like. #Sateen4EVER... #it'spronouncedsateen. I don't get this feeling with other dark music with serious intent, or the opposing "uplifting" music.

Ok - another ramble and a half, thanks for ignoring... hehe.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Bobert — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 16:39:09 GMT

Author: Bobert

Posted: 09/06/2020 20:39

Kozelek definitely did all that just based on his music and his scandals. And yeah i don't really care about what the lyrics are as long as they're not like promoting objectionable morals/actions (Tom Macdonald, Kodak Black's Tunnel Vision, X's Sad, Ariana's 7 Rings, NSBM), but just disagreeing with my beliefs isn't usually going to turn me off of it if it has good vibes/bops.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Anonymous — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 16:32:08 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2020 20:32

LedZep wrote:

And I haven’t bought or streamed Kozelek’s albums ever since I’ve learnt about his personal life. In fact, I wrote that in the original post.

I did not have an account on this website at that time. My apologies

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

LedZep — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 16:14:47 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 09/06/2020 20:14

NewsFromHome wrote:

Your number one album of the 2010's is made by Mark Kozelek.

And I haven’t bought or streamed Kozelek’s albums ever since I’ve learnt about his personal life. In fact, I wrote that in the original post.

Edit: My bad, I removed that part before posting. But Mark was one of the examples of musicians I don’t support.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Spyglass — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 15:28:55 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 09/06/2020 19:28

NewsFromHome wrote:

Whenever there's more than one accusation it's almost always true. It's also very easy to corroborate her statement. Kozelek did mention her by name at the concert, airline tickets next to each other. Plus Koz' lyrics are kind of dripping in misogyny. Plus plus the fact that his management team were aware of these accusations for more than a year and had plenty of time to deal with it responsibly and just ignored it. ETC.

Not to say that Kozelek hasn't made great music buttttt it's disingenuous to toss off the accusation like that

I'm not tossing it aside. I'm just saying that LedZep's number one isn't quite proven to be hypocritical. Besides, for all we know, this lady might've had sex with him and then would have wanted to get noticed or she was mad at him for some shit. I've had a friend who told a fat whopper about me at one point (but that's a ridiculously long story). Again, I'm not tossing the possibility aside, but you said "almost always," which means you yourself are aware of that slim chance that it's not true. I'm not going to join a hype train of any kind until the source of the hype is actually proven with 100% certainty to be true. Otherwise, I'm neutral. I admit that these factors make it more suspicious, but it's not proof.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Anonymous — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 15:17:02 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2020 19:17

Spyglass wrote:

But there isn't any proof that the accusations are true. Yet, anyway.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Spyglass — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 14:49:30 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 09/06/2020 18:49

NewsFromHome wrote:

Your number one album of the 2010's is made by Mark Kozelek.

But there isn't any proof that the accusations are true. Yet, anyway.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Anonymous — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 13:59:38 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2020 17:59

LedZep wrote:

I’m not gonna support an anti-religious or satanist band, nor am I streaming the music made by a domestic abuser. Same with racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, fascist etc. musicians.

Your number one album of the 2010's is made by Mark Kozelek.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Anonymous — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 07:50:36 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2020 11:50

pctrooper wrote:

I just let the music determine my beliefs cause in Houses of the Holy (the song) it says "Let the music be your master". Also that song mentions Satan so now I worship Satan.

cold humour ?

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

LedZep — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 06:45:10 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 09/06/2020 10:45

Personally, I can ignore the problematic lyrics and focus on music/singing. My opinion is that you’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re not listening to the music you love because of its subject matter or the morality/beliefs of people who wrote the music. If anything, you should listen to that music in spite of the beliefs/themes you dislike. The only thing I always watch out for is supporting musicians who are problematic. I’m not gonna support an anti-religious or satanist band, nor am I streaming the music made by a domestic abuser. Same with racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, fascist etc. musicians.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

mickilennial — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 05:05:21 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/06/2020 09:05

Quote:

Now, there are probably a LOT of flaws with these interpretations,

yes

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

Applerill — Sun, 6 Sep 2020 04:50:47 GMT

Author: Applerill

Posted: 09/06/2020 08:50

“I think of Beyoncé the way other people think of Burzum-My Nazi brother

To be completely honest, I think art is a lot more interesting when examining the human condition, so there’s a lot of hateful music I love. BUT I also feel like so much problematic art gives its own intriguing messages about the world, such as:
-“War on Drugs, Suck My Cock” (about how White supremacy eats “illusions” of Whiteness for its own survival)
-“Super Freak” (a document on hypnotic lust before the famous lock-women-in-basement thing)
-I’m Not a Fan But the Kids Like It (about how toxic masculinity swallows up despair and makes you ultimately feel bored)
-“Body Like a Backroad” (an illustration comparing bro-country’s fetishization of Blackness to a country boy’s romantic fetishization of a Black-coded girl, therefore making it the best bro-country song about bro country)
-“That’s My Kind of Night” (about said country boy corrupted by bourgeoise society rediscovering his roots and pseudo-class-consciousness through the machismo of patriarchy)
-“Scarred” (one of the most misogynoiric songs I’ve heard, but also about how misogynoir is so deeply embedded into Black self-loathing by White supremacy)
-“Shape of You” (I once called this a song “so straight that it suddenly becomes queer”, but if we see it in the narrative of tropical house’s popularity surrounding the 2016 election, then you can almost call it that gentrified genre’s equivalent of Godard’s Weekend, turning the White heteronormative privilege into something horribly grotesque, with a TGI Friday’s hosting section taking the place of the cannibals)
-“If You Could Only See” (a song seemingly about an interracial relationship, that line “if you could only see how blue her eyes could be when she said she loves me” is terrifying when combined with this White group’s appropriation of Latin music, because it suggests that the reason White people tolerate non-White friends is because of some other proximity to Whiteness)

Now, there are probably a LOT of flaws with these interpretations, but they definitely the texts a lot more interesting. I try not to seek these kinds of songs out these days, but if I’m gonna have to deal with a Ed Sheeran song on the radio all summer, it doesn’t hurt to try to find a hidden psychology to all of it.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

mickilennial — Sat, 5 Sep 2020 22:06:32 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/06/2020 02:06

Beliefs, yes. Morals, no.

I will listen to music aligned differently to my philosophy, spiritual beliefs, etc. but I'm not going to be listening to hateful, bigoted music. So I guess context matters for me.

Re: Do you listen to music that disagrees with your beliefs?

JOSweetHeart — Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:28:00 GMT

Author: JOSweetHeart

Posted: 09/05/2020 19:28

For me, it all begins with whoever is singing the songs and so what I listen to will not always mirror my beliefs, but that right there in my opinion is how it is with everyone who has a favorite singer. No two people will ever agree on everything and I just might be the best example of that considering the fact that I have never once swallowed a drop of any alcoholic beverage and have no intention of ever having the desire to, but yet I have been a fan of country music since my first day on this planet and still counting. 😄 😄 😄

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. That right there, to me, is what makes country so great. So many things are sung about in the music and not just one. 😄 😄 😄