Best Ever Albums

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

Shipyard — Mon, 12 Oct 2020 07:37:47 GMT

Author: Shipyard

Posted: 10/12/2020 11:37

Im sorry again for my remarks for everyone who is offended by my words about anyone's taste in music. I'm dutch and i can not express myself that good in the English language. We all love music. Music is a international language. And music is a personal thing.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 15:14:23 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 19:14

NewsFromHome wrote:

Not the biggest fan of Kesha but she’s shown growth after she got out of her abusers label contract and I think that’s important to recognize. I think using her artist’s brand as shorthand for bad mainstream pop is reductionist

To be honest, I actually dig her "crappy" music too. It's fun and a bit naughty.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 15:10:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/10/2020 19:10

Not the biggest fan of Kesha but she’s shown growth after she got out of her abusers label contract and I think that’s important to recognize. I think using her artist’s brand as shorthand for bad mainstream pop is reductionist

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 15:01:59 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 19:01

baystateoftheart wrote:

Certainly not intending to be an asshole, and apologies to Shipyard if he thinks I am being one. I do think there's nothing wrong with getting a bit spicy with our music discourse, especially when the original post fit that description. Keeps the thread entertaining. Not every discussion has to be ennobling.

And it seems unfair to Shipyard to say he doesn't have experienced ears. They're certainly more experienced than mine.

Point taken on art criticism - you certainly have more knowledge in that realm.

And although I see what you're getting at, racism seems a bit of a non sequitur to me.

Yeah sorry I was on one last night. I don't even know why I did that. Apologies for getting spicy for no real reason.

I guess I saw some behaviors that triggered me when I should've just laughed instead.

But I agree - forums also should be a place where people can be direct and say dude- that's closed minded or whatever. So I appreciate that aspect and thanks for standing up for that.

And yeah I guess blatantly untrained ears is a bit far - I just meant in the pop realm - knowing the difference perhaps between Ke$ha and CRJ.

Also I'd like to thank Michael Jackson for kind of being a big part of bridging that gap... I feel. At least in the 80s. I feel like Michael Jackson at least made one think twice about downplaying pop music. His music clearly is of higher quality. People still did it of course.

Anyway carry on, and again I didn't need to do that.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

Fischman — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 14:42:43 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 10/10/2020 18:42

Gowi wrote:

baystateoftheart wrote:

Well here we are, the first comment of the tournament saying a nominee isn't even music, and it's directed at Carly Rae Jepsen 🤔

A stale argument constantly trotted out to deny the creativity and agency of female pop stars, depicting them as brainless puppets of record labels. Not that it should matter, but Carly Rae Jepsen has both composition and lyrics songwriting credits on Run Away With Me.

you should expect that from the age bracket

So you respond to a case of prejudice with a declaration of your own prejudice.

Nice. That'll sure elevate the discourse.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

baystateoftheart — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 14:13:51 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 10/10/2020 18:13

RoundTheBend wrote:

Various posts

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 01:08:32 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 05:08

Gowi wrote:

A person is not entitled to civility nor is it required of someone to explain or educate someone.

In most spaces of fervent discussion you have to earn respect and uttering misinformative diatribe will not grant you that respect. It’s a very simple and not all that old principle. How many times do poptimists have to tolerate the same old rockist talking points that smell of anti-disco sentiment from the late seventies where pop music was not treated with the same respect or credibility as rock music? Why is it on the pop listener to tolerate horseshit? It is not my or anyone else's job to educate someone and I will reject any assertion otherwise.

I guess I've always wanted to give people respect until last bridge is burned because in this world misunderstanding occurs way too often.

I'm grateful for whoever helped my mom growing up in the racist south (1940s/50s) and then rallied at the MLK "I have a dream speach" to getting a masters in multi-culturalism and teaching ESL/TSOL classes. That's the world I'd like to continue to live in instead of shitting on people because they don't understand something.

But shit away peeps. Shit away.

(on both sides)

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

mickilennial — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 01:00:14 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 10/10/2020 05:00

A person is not entitled to civility nor is it required of someone to explain or educate someone.

In most spaces of fervent discussion you have to earn respect and uttering misinformative diatribe will not grant you that respect. It’s a very simple and not all that old principle. How many times do poptimists have to tolerate the same old rockist talking points that smell of anti-disco sentiment from the late seventies where pop music was not treated with the same respect or credibility as rock music? Why is it on the pop listener to tolerate horseshit? It is not my or anyone else's job to educate someone and I will reject any assertion otherwise.

I am especially not going to waste my time educating a subjective, extremely biased and misinformative opinion. It's not worth it.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 01:00:04 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 05:00

Lastly if you know anything about my signature, you know that Hegelian dialectic is exactly that - argument, counter argument and then a final synthesis typically illuminates the greatest truth.

So no it's not 50/50 argument and let's middle in the middle Kumbaya, it's let's get a real argument out here and analyze and synthesize it.

But sure we can call my logic here bad.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:53:20 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:53

I kinda think everyone is on a slippery slope logical fallacy right now if we are calling out logical fallacies. (me included)

I have yet to see a real clear argument on both sides, instead both sides are jumping to quick conclusions. That's been my point the whole time.

Golden mean means a conclusion was made - a specific decision that neither side can be true. I already said it's not a 50/50 argument. That was short hand of - not everyone has all their cards showing and instead I feel like conclusions are being made based on the inability to clearly communicate.

If shipyard comes back with

Quote:

ALL POP IS SHIT - NO POSSIBLE OTHER CONCLUSION

... well then case closed.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:50:06 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:50

ok fine - I'll say all the things to piss everyone off.

You guys are being fucking assholes to shipyard when you aren't recognizing he doesn't have the "experienced ears". It's how you tear down racism... you educate. You don't be fucking assholes. That's what drives racism. You gotta call it out, but you don't leave it at that. If you are educated enough to know when something is prejudiced, you should be kind enough to explain why.

Shipyard, you are being prejudiced against pop music. Not all pop music, although often uses similar musical elements, is of the same quality. You can have pop caviar. CRJ is recognized by critics and this community to be as such. This is why there's such an uproar here. I feel like you listed off non-pop artists as great female artists (I don't remember exactly the list, so forgive me if I'm misspeaking here).

There - we aren't compromising - you both are being assholes, and that's what I'm trying to say. It's not a truth in the middle - it's a both sides have truth, and let's through out the garbage. Call it what it is.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:42:27 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:42

baystateoftheart wrote:

RoundTheBend wrote:

Gowi wrote:

RoundTheBend wrote:

eh - I think some things got over simplified with a lot of what people are saying here on both sides.

I think Jesus said something like beams in your own eyes or something.

Yes.

If you can't see where both sides are coming from it's being closed minded/not sympathetic to another person's point of view. While I disagree with both sides, I can see where both sides are coming from.

Somewhere in between is the truth, but neither side will likely admit it.

I think this is the golden mean fallacy.

This is true when trying to prove science.

In art criticism it's called pluralism.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

baystateoftheart — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:17:28 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:17

RoundTheBend wrote:

Gowi wrote:

RoundTheBend wrote:

eh - I think some things got over simplified with a lot of what people are saying here on both sides.

I think Jesus said something like beams in your own eyes or something.

I think this is the golden mean fallacy.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:15:23 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:15

Gowi wrote:

i have no sympathy for "modern pop bad" takes

I can respect/understand that and I'm not saying it's a 50/50 argument. I'll just leave it at that/anything else I say will likely piss off both sides more.

Long story short shipyard - it's a bit prejudiced to lump all music together - regardless of genre.

Other side of the story, it's a bit short sided to shit on face instead of have a decent conversation explaining why.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

mickilennial — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:08:17 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:08

i have no sympathy for "modern pop bad" takes

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:03:28 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:03

Gowi wrote:

RoundTheBend wrote:

eh - I think some things got over simplified with a lot of what people are saying here on both sides.

I think Jesus said something like beams in your own eyes or something.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

mickilennial — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:00:39 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 10/10/2020 04:00

RoundTheBend wrote:

eh - I think some things got over simplified with a lot of what people are saying here on both sides.

I think Jesus said something like beams in your own eyes or something.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

RoundTheBend — Fri, 9 Oct 2020 23:57:57 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/10/2020 03:57

eh - I think some things got over simplified with a lot of what people are saying here on both sides.

I think Jesus said something like beams in your own eyes or something.

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

babyBlueSedan — Fri, 9 Oct 2020 23:10:04 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 10/10/2020 03:10

Some of these just write themselves

Carly wins 14-9

Re: (Closed) 2015-2019 Round 1: Carly Rae Jepsen vs Kurt Vile

baystateoftheart — Fri, 9 Oct 2020 20:12:28 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 10/10/2020 00:12

Gowi wrote:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

🤣