Best Ever Albums

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

KitchenSink — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 18:46:56 GMT

Author: KitchenSink

Posted: 01/22/2021 23:46

Mercury wrote:

I gotta say I am surprised by the somewhat lukewarm love or liking of 1-800 Suicide. That song blew my mind and is one of my fave songs of 1995. But the general consensus is it’s cool but not like great.

hi i think it's a 5/5 masterpiece

anyway congrats this was the hardest vote for me, very nearly abstained. both teams near-perfect

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Skinny — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 11:22:41 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 01/22/2021 16:22

1995 wins, 9-8.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 17:02:49 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/21/2021 22:02

In case anyone's wondering who spoiled the tie, that'd be me. But there is some time left so who knows.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Repo — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:01:25 GMT

Author: Repo

Posted: 01/21/2021 21:01

How cool would it be if this ends in a tie!!! 😇 😇 😇

edit: Seriously great match-up. Game down to the singles for us. And all the singles were pretty great. Dawn & I really liked that Gravediggaz song a lot. Especially that second verse!!! Whoever rapped that was amazing!

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Mercury — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 15:50:58 GMT

Author: Mercury

Posted: 01/21/2021 20:50

Well, shit. This is close. I gotta say I am surprised by the somewhat lukewarm love or liking of 1-800 Suicide. That song blew my mind and is one of my fave songs of 1995. But the general consensus is it’s cool but not like great. (And I’ll grant you it’s not as great as that Madvillain track, but I at least see it on the same tier).

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Skinny — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:55:41 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 01/20/2021 18:55

babyBlueSedan wrote:

I ended up voting for 2006 because it has the highest highs. Still really like the 1995 team and if The Infamous was an album I got more personal enjoyment out of it would have been an easy vote for '95.

I also went with 2006, but for the opposite reason. The Infamous is easily my favourite thing here, but 2006 was just that bit more consistent for me, with significantly better singles.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

babyBlueSedan — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:18:57 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 01/20/2021 16:18

I ended up voting for 2006 because it has the highest highs. Still really like the 1995 team and if The Infamous was an album I got more personal enjoyment out of it would have been an easy vote for '95.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Repo — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 22:19:13 GMT

Author: Repo

Posted: 01/20/2021 03:19

These albums were a wash for us so it came down to the singles. "I Wish" being our favorite. A 1995 cut that takes us back to that time & place perfectly. Our least favorite was "Throw some Ds" which we had to look up in Urban Dictionary. lol. At first it seemed pretty profane. Turns out it's as innocent as a Beach Boys song from 1964! LOLZ!

So anyways, 1995 wins for us!

One more match to go. 😎

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

babyBlueSedan — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 16:56:18 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 01/17/2021 21:56

Most of these matches have been super close for me, and this one is the closest yet.

The Infamous has always been an album I've appreciated more than I've enjoyed. I still really like it, and - like Fantastic Damage - it's an album I'll always listen to once a year in the winter because it fits the atmosphere so well. But I do admit that despite the rapping being impeccable and the production being unsettlingly hypnotic, the lack of variety or risks makes it an album I don't turn too often. It's impressive more than it is entertaining.

For the other albums: Game Theory is probably by favorite Roots album, and likely my favorite album of this bunch. The Blackout album was a great find, and though a few of the songs get a bit too repetitive it has a terrific atmosphere. I already knew this, but this tournament is reinforcing the fact that southern hip hop / Memphis rap is my biggest hip hop blindspot. Perhaps the biggest strength of that album is its length, as its too short for the sound to wear out its welcome. I feared that would not be the case with Chicken Talk, and I split those 100 minutes into two listening sessions to compensate. Despite there being so many tracks they pretty much all hit, and while it's pretty comfortable my least favorite of these four albums I enjoyed it way more than I thought I would, which is what makes this match closer than I thought it would.

All four singles are terrific, with my favorite being the Madvillain one, which I hadn't actually heard before. That "You could find him in a pub" line is just insane, and the beat is tremendous. After that come the two 1995 singles, and then "Throw Some D's."

So I think 1995 is a bit more consistent but 2006 has my favorite song and album. I thought about going 1995 for aesthetics since Blackout / Mobb Deep / Gravediggaz is a pretty good Halloweeny vibe, but "I Wish" doesn't fit in well enough to make that my deciding factor. I've been trying to go on gut feel rather than ratings when voting, but I resorted to ratings and ended up with this:

Blackout: 3.5
Mobb Deep: 3.75
Gravediggaz: 4
Skee-Lo: 4

Roots: 4
Gucci Mane: 3.25
Rich Boy: 3.5
Madvillain: 4.5

Aaaand those both add up to 15.25. Gonna have to do a bit of relistening before I can decide on my vote.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 06:57:34 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/16/2021 11:57

My ranking for the singles (all of them great choices:
1st: Gravediggaz - 1-800 Suicide
As you might have guessed from my team, I value team chemistry. This and Blackout - Dreamworld is a match made in heaven.
T-2nd: Skee-Lo - I Wish
A lovely little song that still sounds so refreshing.
T-2nd: Madvillain - Monkey Suite
Typical Madvillain stuff, not much to be said.
4th: Rich Boy - Throw Some D's (ft. Polow da Don)
By no means bad (actually quite above average), it's just that I prefer the other three.
So, leaning a bit towards 1995, but it's one of those matchups where I'd like to find some time for relistening.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 15:26:48 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/15/2021 20:26

The last album (not sure if it's proper to call it an album or mixtape or whatever, never been into these classifications, I 'm gonna call it an album for this review's sake anyway) of this matchup is Gucci Mane - Chicken Talk. When I found out that there are 25 tracks in it, I thought "oh, man, here we go again". But it actually turned out much better than my initial reaction would suggest. Gucci Mane has been involved in so many projects that you never know what to expect, but this has to be one of his best - not that I know all of them inside out, more in the lines of making an educated guess based on what I've heard from him so far and some reviews I checked about his stuff I am not familiar with. Keeping the listener's attention for 100 minutes is no small feat. This doesn't mean that it couldn't be shorter, though (nothing crazy, maybe omitting five or six tracks and it would be huge). It's not clear if the production or Gucci Mane's performance is the deciding factor, as both reach absurd levels of greatness. The production is as innovative and genre-defining as it gets in 21st century, combining variety and cohesion. How many modern albums -hip hop or anything else, doesn't really matter - can claim to have been so influential? Gucci Mane also manages to sound fresh and comes with a style of his own, while showcasing great flexibility and adapting ideally to the different directions the beats take. The lyrics have many great rhymes ("Every time my phone ring, dog, it's eighteen-five Only problem that I have is what car I'm gon' drive Im a real street nigga, I ain't never had shit Man, this chain 'round my neck cost four or five bricks", or "I can't neva count my stash 'cause I always loose count I can't neva keep no bitch 'cause I put them hoes out I was corner store and in the motel in it, selling it You can check my rap sheet, its numerous felonies I took twenty-three stacks, and bought some jet skis") that provide tons of fun, but I 'd say they are not the strongest part of the album -continuing in the spirit of comparing the aspects of an album between them and taking into account all the reservations that have been expressed about this comparison which is vague to say the least. Regarding the standout moments, except for the last part of the album, where I admittedly did lose focus, everything else is a highlight, my favorite would be the three songs sequence of Alligators, Iced Up and Swing My Door.
To sum it up, I would rank this as the fourth album of the matchup, but every album here was highly enjoyable and all of them landed really close(in most -if not all- other matchups it would rank higher). So, 2006 has the 1st and 4th album, 1995 the 2nd and 3rd, it's gonna come down to the wire the singles.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:00:46 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/14/2021 23:00

The Roots - Game Theory is probably the first album so far that I thought I was reasonably familiar with it and still managed to surprise me. Maybe it's because The Roots have so many albums that range from very good to great ("It's a new bad moon on the rise, who feelin it New true skill in it y'all, The Roots still in it") , but in no way did I remember it being as good as it actually turned out to be. Apart from their 2004 album (The Tipping Point) that I recently checked for my team, I can't say I am really fresh on the rest of their discography, but I can easily picture this building a strong case for being near the very top of their catalogue. So, what makes this so good? If I had to describe it with one word, I would say it is "full". You couldn't have guessed it by the short and sweet intro, but it soon proves to be the calm before the storm. Not only is every song different from the previous and the next, but each song by itself is taking various (subtle and not so subtle) twists and turns. The most impressive is that their songs aren't that long, they achieve this majestic outcome in the space of 3-4 minutes. Even the songs that consist of only one verse ( those would be False Media and Livin’ in a New World) are so rich. The use of live instrumentation is obviously the main factor responsible for this success - not that the samples are bad, who would expect Radiohead. Another thing this album has going for it is the plethora of guests with each of them adding to the variety with a substantial contribution. The lyrics provide some ever so timely socio-political commentary with a touch of irony and many memorable lines ("Keep the bright lights out of our faces You can't shake it; it ain't no way to swallow the hatred Aim, fire, holler 'bout a dollar, nothing is sacred We gon' pimp the shit out of nature Send our troops to get my paper Tell 'em, "Stay away from them skyscrapers Ain't long 'fore you get y'all acres" I'ma show 'em who the glo-bal gangster Sentence me to four more years, thank you I'ma make you feel a little bit safer, because it ain't over— See, that's how we get your fear to control you But ain't nobody under more control than the soldier", or "Your ma don't like to jitterbug, said this unholy music Hip hop just so ridiculous, everything sounds so confusing Nowadays ain't nothing like it was, one thing that showed the blues Is this system so mysterious, can't let that stop the movement Can't get no satisfaction, they all laughing, glad it's happening All ringside for the main attraction Acting a fool with a lust for action Young girl caught in a crime of passion Sitting there crying in designer fashion Didn't blow, didn't have time for asking "Somebody call for the ambulances", girl",or "A celebration of the loss of your innocence To your old self, you've lost any resemblance They say the city make a dark impression The youth just lost and they want direction But they don't get the police, they get the protection And walk around with heat like Charlton Heston, man"). Also, I view this as very accessible, but at the same time I suspect it is gonna be a grower (not many albums share these two qualities). An album I'm definitely gonna give more listens when the tournament is over. Many candidates for highlight of the album, but it has to be Can't Stop This, the touching J Dilla tribute ("Happy he's no longer in the pain he'd been Recently feelin', I'm crushed by the pain of His absence. Name's Dilla Dog and I can only Rep the real and raw. My man, Dilla, rest in Peace.").
To sum it up, one of my favorites of the first round, so I rank this a bit ahead of both the 1995 albums, but of course it's still far from being irreversible.
Next one is gonna be Gucci Mane - Chicken Talk.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Thu, 14 Jan 2021 08:27:09 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/14/2021 13:27

Yeah, the lyrics/rapping distinction is an interesting point of discussion. The correlation between them is self explanatory. The question is at what degree you can evaluate them independently - that's where relativity comes into play. It seems a bit easier with the lyrics (just read them from a piece of paper or a screen), though in that case we are dealing with poetry, it's a different ball game. In rapping it's trickier. You can include various factors, the two most essential would be the flow (closely related to the lyrics, not so much content-wise, but in terms of structure, how many syllabi/words you fit in a line, plus it's heavily dependent on production, too), using it as an umbrella term which can be further broken down to more aspects (be it technical/aesthetical, etc.), but let's keep it simple, and secondly the ability to connect with the audience and convey the message (even closer tied to the lyrics, no matter if it's about telling a story or evoking an emotion or whatever). So, it's easy to tell that their connection is very strong.
Taking the above into account, I would say there are two ways to attempt judging rapping separately. One would be by trying to answer the question "can you imagine another rapper being better/worse in the same environment?" (with the term environment accounting for both lyrics and production). This method compares someone's rapping to someone else's rapping and it would lead to the conclusion "person A is better at rapping than person B", which is far from the point I intended to make. The second would compare the rapping to the two other aspects (lyrics and production) and the criteria are definitely less straightforward, as it's rather vague where you draw the line between them. It's not obvious what question you're trying to answer. In this specific case, I think it's clear I was going for the second one. Overall, it's pretty complicated stuff, we're barely scratching the surface.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

LedZep — Thu, 14 Jan 2021 06:51:20 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 01/14/2021 11:51

Skinny wrote:

Interesting that you separate lyrics from "rapping" (by which you mean vocal performance and flow/cadence, presumably). I do also separate all three at times when discussing a rapper's strengths or weaknesses - lyrics, voice, flow - but when I talk about "rapping" as a skill or endeavour I'm generally referring to all three simultaneously. Neither use of the term is necessarily correct or incorrect, but it's an interesting semantic contrast.

Regardless, I still think you're crazy. Mobb Deep may not have technically showy flows or super energetic vocals, but they stay in the pocket in a way that is generally alien to New York rap, bar a few other notable examples (maybe Q-Tip's in-studio influence stretched further than the production). They never put together syllables in ways that feel clumsy or unnatural. Their is also a casual, almost bored menace to their delivery that makes their tales of street life and specific threats feel that much more lived-in.

Anyway, I'm biased.

Agree with all points. I too can't exactly separate the flow, lyrics and voice when judging a song, but can when discussing a rapper's ability. And from what I've read, Q-Tip's presence was super important. He remixed all of the beats, taught Havoc a lot of the production tricks and provided a much needed experienced figure to guide the whole project. Not sure about the rapping itself, but he does contribute those few verses. It's possible, even probable that he influenced P and Hav in that respect as well.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Skinny — Thu, 14 Jan 2021 02:37:11 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 01/14/2021 07:37

Interesting that you separate lyrics from "rapping" (by which you mean vocal performance and flow/cadence, presumably). I do also separate all three at times when discussing a rapper's strengths or weaknesses - lyrics, voice, flow - but when I talk about "rapping" as a skill or endeavour I'm generally referring to all three simultaneously. Neither use of the term is necessarily correct or incorrect, but it's an interesting semantic contrast.

Regardless, I still think you're crazy. Mobb Deep may not have technically showy flows or super energetic vocals, but they stay in the pocket in a way that is generally alien to New York rap, bar a few other notable examples (maybe Q-Tip's in-studio influence stretched further than the production). They never put together syllables in ways that feel clumsy or unnatural. Their is also a casual, almost bored menace to their delivery that makes their tales of street life and specific threats feel that much more lived-in.

Anyway, I'm biased.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Thu, 14 Jan 2021 02:16:07 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/14/2021 07:16

Quote:

Rapping is not exactly the strong point of the album, but it has to be said that Prodigy has a more distinct and memorable delivery than Havoc.

I would disagree with that. Sure, neither rapper is flashy, uses complex words or phrases, rhymes entire sentences or anything like that. But they get their point across, tell poignant, dark, gritty stories and give us a lot of straight up iconic one liners. Their flows and storytelling are impeccable. I also think you underrate Havoc a bit as a rapper, sure Prodigy's better but that's because, well, at this point he was one of the best. And I have to mention the production too. Most of it is produced by Havoc and/or Q-Tip and has that eerie, dark vibe that I totally dig. I absolutely love those droney lofi synths, strings and whatnot hanging in the background. Melodies are sometimes subtle, sometimes more prominent but always top class. Jazz rap elements pop in here and there too. I can count on one hand the amount of times I was so blown away by a seemingly simplistic and straightforward beats collection.

It's comparative. I view both production and lyrics as more notable than the rapping and in that sense it is not exactly the strong point of the album. By no means is it anywhere near bad of course, that would push it way too far.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Repo — Thu, 14 Jan 2021 01:08:35 GMT

Author: Repo

Posted: 01/14/2021 06:08

Skinny wrote:

Also, Game Theory is nuts, having relistened. This matchup is tight.

This. This is the first really difficult match for me as I love all four albums. Will most likely come down to the singles and repeat listens tomorrow.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

LedZep — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:49:03 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 01/14/2021 01:49

kokkinos wrote:

Could very well be about demographics (truth is my circle isn't very hip hop oriented). I don't think I've ever met a single person who named either of those in their favorites.

Yup I agree with this. But I guess it depends on what is a "casual hip hop fan" and "casual music listener". And also who Skinny hangs out with 😁

Quote:

Rapping is not exactly the strong point of the album, but it has to be said that Prodigy has a more distinct and memorable delivery than Havoc.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

kokkinos — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 14:55:05 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 01/13/2021 19:55

Could very well be about demographics (truth is my circle isn't very hip hop oriented). I don't think I've ever met a single person who named either of those in their favorites (there are more in the same category, I just happened to mention these two because they were nominated in the first round of the tournament). Thankfully we have the internet (though I was checking various online articles/lists etc. and I got the same impression from there). Not that it matters too much, anyone who's spent some time with these albums can easily appreciate them.

Re: BYHH GW1: Group D - 1995 vs. 2006

Skinny — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:44:12 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 01/13/2021 18:44

kokkinos wrote:

Mobb Deep - The Infamous... is an album that belongs in the same category as Mos Def - Black on Both Sides in the sense that most people with an elementary knowledge of the history of the genre would perceive them as absolute classics, but the majority of casual listeners without much of a hip hop background wouldn't consider them as equal to the top albums(you all know which ones I mean) and might view them as a "second tier classic". Anyway, this has nothing to do with the album itself and by no means does it diminish its value. Its influence is undeniable, but its enjoyability isn't that far behind either. The production goes for a dark selection of beats that fit the content of the album. Also, I had the impression that some of the tracks had a "slow-burning" effect. They start off kinda ok and at some point you're getting really deep. However, I can't remember something similar happening in older listenings of this, so in all likelihood it has more to do with my mood right now and the fact that I am not paying 100% attention and when I focus I suddenly realise what I'm hearing. Rapping is not exactly the strong point of the album, but it has to be said that Prodigy has a more distinct and memorable delivery than Havoc. Despite the lyrics exploring typical themes of the street/gangsta life, their realistic and relatable approach makes them stand out. The Start of Your Ending (41st Side) introduces us to the problems they have to deal with as part of their daily routine ("Cock back the Gat then hit a nigga like a bid 25, nah, kid you gettin' life Forever burnin' in hell, niggas is trife"). [The Infamous Prelude] feels a bit too long, but it never gets to the point of becoming annoying. Survival Of The Fittest is a lesson on surviving in the streets ("There's a war goin' on outside no man is safe from You could run, but you can't hide forever From these streets that we done took You walkin' with your head down, scared to look You shook, ‘cause ain't no such things as halfway crooks They never around when the beef cooks in my part of town It's similar to Vietnam"). Eye for a Eye (Your Beef Is Mines) is a song that features Nas and Raekwon, so there's not much to be said, only that it contains one of my favorite quotes of the album due its surreal scenery ("Cause I wanna chill, laid up in a jacuzzi Sippin' bubbly with my fingers on the Uzi"). [Just Step Prelude] is clearly more effective than the previous prelude. Then comes a fantastic sequence of songs and in my opinion the strongest part of the album. The super smooth Give Up the Goods (Just Step) followed by the heavy Temperature's Rising, where the female vocals is the only chance to catch your breath, and Up North Trip with its extremely catchy hook. Trife Life is characterised by its exemplary storytelling ("OK, check it, you're on your way to your girl's crib But the bitch live in the Bridge You ain't really sweating it 'Cause little do you know, the niggas in the Bridge be setting it You thought you was safe And tried to walk the back streets without heat On the 41st Side of 12th Street The side where niggas don't give a fuck The side where if you come through fronting Kid, you getting bucked"). Q.U. -- Hectic is one of my least favorite songs of the album, it interrupts the hot streak. Right Back At You features again some A-list guests, namely Ghostface Killah and Raekwon. [The Grave Prelude] is another great prelude. Cradle to the Grave is the second piece of fine storytelling ("Kid, you ain't lyin' I went to stash the murder weapon, plus I'm relyin' On a door to be open, goin' in the building, it's a trap Police buckin' at me, they try to twist my dome back Jetted up the staircase to the third floor Reached behind the sink, throw the heater on the floor Locked the door, police grabbed me up and tried to break my jaw Said, "Where's the gun we saw? (I don't know) We know you was there at the homicide scene (I don't know nothin') And if it wasn't you, it was somebody from ya team"). I view Drink Away The Pain (Situations) as one of the weakest tracks, but it is saved by the sax. Shook Ones (Part II) is their most recognisable song and one of the rare occasions where part two is better than part one. Party's Over is a fitting closer.
To sum it up, its status as a classic is well deserved, though I would rank this only a tiny bit ahead of Blackout - Dreamworld (this says more about how good the latter was).
Next one is gonna be The Roots - Game Theory.

Disagree with bolded. I know plenty of people who would consider themselves casual hip-hop listeners who consider these records all-time classics regardless of genre.