Best Ever Albums

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

Skinny — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:21:25 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/25/2021 02:21

1996 wins, 6-3.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

baystateoftheart — Sat, 20 Mar 2021 17:47:41 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/20/2021 21:47

Dr. Octagonecologyst: 3/5
Siah And Yeshua Dapo ED: 4/5
Thuggin It Up: 3.5/5
I Ain't Mad At Cha: 4/5

1996 Total: 14.5/20

Moment Of Truth: 4/5
A Book Of Human Language: 3.5/5
Gimme Some More: 4.5/5
Intergalactic: 4/5

1998 Total: 16/20

Really strong '98 team anchored by two classic singles. A worthy opponent in '96, but the vote shouldn't be this lopsided.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

babyBlueSedan — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 21:12:24 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 03/18/2021 01:12

Going 1996, as I prefer its albums and singles.

As I mentioned in the 2000 match Kool Keith has grown off me a bit but I still really enjoy Dr Octagon. It's completely ridiculous and nonsensical but I think it succeeds because it really leans into it and never lets up. So many great skits - "Oh shit, there's a horse in the hospital!" - and stupid but good lines. "Think about it, if you was there standing looking at me. What would you do, if I hit your face with dog doodoo?" is probably my favorite of the bunch. "3000" used to be a favorite and I don't think it's as impressive these days but it's still one of the highlights. The other thing that puts it over the top is the production, which is so smooth and atmospheric.

I liked the Visualz EP too. First 5 tracks were good but not great but the final track really put it over the top. Loved how the beat kept changing and the MCs never lost a step.

Not super huge on the MC Eiht song but "I Ain't Mad At Cha" is probably my favorite 2Pac song.

Neither of the 1998 albums really impress me. Moment of Truth probably isn't as bad as the 40 I have it rated here but a lot of Gang Starr's music just bores me. Guru is a capable rapper but I've never thought anything sets him apart, and I've never got the love for DJ Premier's beats on these albums. Sounds like really competent but unexceptional hip hop to me. Aceyalone album was good but Aceyalone seems like one of those rappers where the unexpected words and rhymes are a big part of his style - Busdriver and Kool Keith also fall into this bucket I think - and that's just not a style I love. The poems also really interrupted the flow of the album, especially the recitation of Jabberwocky, what was that?

I liked the Busta Rhymes single vocally but the beat seemed inessential. And I want to like the Beastie Boys because I think their schtick seems like a lot of fun but I can never get past how irritating their vocals are.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

RoundTheBend — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 23:58:07 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/17/2021 03:58

When you are the only one voting for your team...
🫢 😨
🤣

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

RoundTheBend — Wed, 10 Mar 2021 01:19:32 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/10/2021 06:19

Yeah absolutely the elvis effect.

It is curious though that I've yet to read anything about that about them... just meaning this is the most "white people" conversations I've ever seen about them. It's like them being white is mostly ignored - vs Eminem for example.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

cestuneblague — Wed, 10 Mar 2021 01:16:48 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/10/2021 06:16

Yeah I would've used Check Your Head at some point if I did '92, I think the fact that Beastie Boys managed to get adored with the Alternative Rock and Pop crowds at the time probably had more to do with older discussions of appropiation and whatnot more so than whether or not they could be classified as hip hop.

Coming to this match... 😕 . I greatly prefer 96 singles but 98 albums are better in my mind if less interesting.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

RoundTheBend — Mon, 1 Mar 2021 21:40:33 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/02/2021 02:40

oh no worries - sorry if I was a turd.

All salient points.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

kokkinos — Mon, 1 Mar 2021 12:39:04 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 03/01/2021 17:39

Yeah, now that I look at it, my comment on Beastie Boys was overly critical for no particular reason, apologies for that, but I didn't mean to imply it has no business being here due to genre (I mean, not only did I nominate The Streets, I also made an enquiry regarding the eligibility of artists such as Subtle, cLOUDDEAD and Faust/Dälek, so I would never complain about something not being "hip hop enough"). My criticism had to do with how great the other three singles were and how this immediately stroke me as a painfully weak link. I can enjoy some of their older stuff (I found the key is that the less seriously you take them the better they sound), but by 1998 it was time to move on - not that I listened to them or pretty much any music back then due to age, I am talking in retrospect.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

Skinny — Mon, 1 Mar 2021 07:26:30 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/01/2021 12:26

LedZep wrote:

Skinny wrote:

Anyway, tl;dr: the Beasties are great, I would never seriously suggest that they aren't hip-hop nor that they weren't massively important in the genre's evolution, but they had a ton of crossover appeal with certain crowds.

Honestly I see that as a positive. Of course "hip hop for hiphopheads" is great, but I also find it pretty cool when an actually good hip hop group crosses the genre boundaries and appeals to a whole different crowd. It may get some slack from purists of course, but whatever. Their style wasn't exactly the freshest thing in 1998, although I don't have serious problems with that either.

Same, I'm just clearly doing an awful job of articulating my feelings. I don't think the Beasties really get slack from anyone, to be fair. They're one of those institutions who get love from a wide spectrum of listeners, and it's totally deserved. It was more a neutral observation, coming largely from a stance of admiration, that the Beasties were able to stay relevant and interesting in spite of their adherence to a relatively outdated style of rapping. A lot of this is down to interesting production choices. Of those early Def Jam artists, only the Beasties and LL Cool J (and, to a lesser extent, Slick Rick) were really able to navigate the changes in hip-hop throughout the 1990s, and the Beasties didn't even have to update their flow in order to do so. It's impressive, and I was simply positing that the probable reason for this is that they tapped into an alternative worldview and aesthetic that appealed to fans who otherwise probably weren't overly interested in mainstream rap. This is a positive thing. To reiterate, I love the Beasties, even with their 1986 flow.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

LedZep — Mon, 1 Mar 2021 07:05:12 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 03/01/2021 12:05

Skinny wrote:

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

Skinny — Mon, 1 Mar 2021 01:21:19 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/01/2021 06:21

Don't get me wrong, I love the Beasties. I was being somewhat facetious about their whole image by 1998, especially with regards to their zines and their 'Free Tibet' phase and the endless play of their Spike Jonze videos on MTV2 - they just adopted a completely alt. rock aesthetic, but I don't seriously believe they aren't "hip-hop".

The flow comment was a bit more sincere - it was such a completely dated style of rapping by 1998, and they weren't even attempting a more modern flow. It's neither a good thing nor a bad thing in and of itself, but it just seems crazy to me that - unlike that Run-DMC 1990s stuff - it was still finding a sizeable audience and widespread critical acclaim in spite of it being so primitive or archaic. (Maybe this is because they were able to appeal to the alt. rock crowd and kinda move beyond hip-hop, in that sense, which is what I was getting at before.)

Anyway, tl;dr: the Beasties are great, I would never seriously suggest that they aren't hip-hop nor that they weren't massively important in the genre's evolution, but they had a ton of crossover appeal with certain crowds.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

RoundTheBend — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:18:58 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/01/2021 03:18

Somehow this go around I took the list from the top the way they were posted in the match up post, enjoying the review of my year near the last of it instead of first. Here's where the spotify playlist crumbles... will need to listen to The Visualz EP.

1996 (captain: Streams) (10.25)
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst (2.5)
My first listen of this a bit back I liked it a lot - great flow and tracks, but this time around I actually paid attention to how many times he rhymed with rectum or anus and started to get this kinda juvenile vibe from it I wasn't getting before. Part of me wishes I hadn't noticed that because otherwise I really dig probs would've given a 3.

Siah and Yeshua Dapo ED - Siah and Yeshua Dapo ED (a.k.a. The Visualz EP) (3)
30 seconds and know this is likely going to be the shit. Second track in, and hot damn... that bass track. I'm going to finish listening to this, but I'm 99% sure I can give this a 3. ok it actually gets a 300... Rite of Spring sample... damn...

MC Eiht - Thuggin' It Up (2.25) - idk didn't really do anything for me as I'd expect a single to, quality as it is

2Pac - I Ain't Mad At Cha (ft. Danny Boy) - for a 2Pac track, I was hoping for some more (2.5)

vs.

1998 (captain: RoundTheBend) (11.75)
Gang Starr - Moment of Truth (2.75)
I remember first listening to this and liking it, so when I realized it was a 98 release it was an obvious choice for me. Yes, I don't disagree that EVERYONE in the late 90s were making long/bloated albums partially due to the CD format. Curious if that was just due to the height of the CD format or if record execs were dumb and thought that people thought if it had more songs it was more valuable. Anyway, incredible flow and beats here, so obvs choice for me even if it can drag at times... but they also do a good job spicing it up throughout (what I like most about the album is it's diverse soundscape).

Aceyalone - A Book of Human Language (3)
This might be one of my favorite hip-hop records this go around. I really fell in love with a lot of things about this record, but as kokkinos stated, the diction is incredibly smooth and clear, and the clever lyrics pop like very very few hip-hop records consistently do. Plus those backing tracks are badass and the concept I liked. This one pulls my heart strings in a lot of ways - energy, dynamics - idk all those bullshit words that people care about, but in the end it just is "great".

Busta Rhymes - Gimme Some More (3)
Oh damn - speaking of flow, Busta Rhymes' flow is also magnificent. Plus this kinda "flip mode" mindset I get lost in.

Beastie Boys - Intergalactic (3)
For anyone considering Beastie Boys as anyone less hip-hop than The Streets (and it looks like I'm alone here), I just don't get that. The Def-Jam scene is a massive part of hip-hop history. And yes white guys doing hip-hop seems to have Run-DMC written all over them - major influence. I mean as late as 93 Run-DMC was doing that same style. It might even be why I chose this track - my hip-hop beginnings are like 1991, so that late 80s stuff was plenty popular and while this track is likely the last cool track with that style, it's just a band doing the style they got famous off of, and while you could say that it was a "long time" idk... Anyway, I care about what's good and I care about what's a good single, and this single was one of the biggest in 98. If you are a hip-hop purist and think Beastie Boys aren't worthy to call themselves hip-hop... I guess that could be said for like 6-7 other entries in this game, and this would be at the bottom of that list, if you ask me (poor argument is all I'm sayin). Plus that "intergalactic planetary" and "another demension" intro is the shit - reminds me a bit of Planet Rock from Afrika Bambaataa... another "old school players to new school fools".

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

Skinny — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:06:33 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 02/28/2021 19:06

baystateoftheart wrote:

The tracklists are pretty similar to begin with, and the track you mention is on both versions (sometimes as a hidden track). So I don't see what you're talking about regarding Discogs having '96 releases with '97 tracklists. Either way, I don't care what the solution/directive is - just wanted to clarify.

Either counts as a 1996 release.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

baystateoftheart — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 13:41:20 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 02/28/2021 18:41

Skinny wrote:

Good question. I was unaware until now that there are two different versions. Despite what Wikipedia says, Discogs appears to attach the supposed 1997 tracklist (or something very close to it) to a number of 1996 pressings, and I generally trust Discogs more than Wikipedia on these matters. ('Half Shark Half Alligator Man' being one of the tell-tale signs.) Therefore, I would tell users to treat the version on streaming as a 1996 release, but I also don't discourage users from seeking out the slightly different earlier tracklist if they wish.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

Skinny — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 05:49:17 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 02/28/2021 10:49

baystateoftheart wrote:

So are we supposed to be evaluating the 1996 original Dr. Octagon, or the 1997 re-release Dr. Octagonecologyst? The latter is the version on streaming, and has tracks added to and subtracted from the original album.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

baystateoftheart — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 23:03:32 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 02/28/2021 04:03

So are we supposed to be evaluating the 1996 original Dr. Octagon, or the 1997 re-release Dr. Octagonecologyst? The latter is the version on streaming, and has tracks added to and subtracted from the original album.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

kokkinos — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:37:40 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 02/26/2021 18:37

My ranking for the singles:
1st:Busta Rhymes - Gimme Some More
Untouchable.
2nd: MC Eiht - Thuggin' It Up
Another irresistible pick, almost as enjoyable as the previous one.
3rd: 2Pac - I Ain't Mad At Cha (ft. Danny Boy)
I 'm definitely underrating it, it's just that I like the above two even more.

4th: Beastie Boys - Intergalactic
What is this doing here? Anyway, I guess it's more me than the track itself.

To sum it up, it's really close. Weren't it for Intergalactic, I would definitely go 1998. Right now abstaining seems the fair solution, but I've said that before and ended up voting anyway, so 1996 has a tiny lead that will most likely do the trick.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

kokkinos — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:49:32 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 02/26/2021 17:49

Aceyalone - A Book of Human Language is not an album I expected to be nominated, but I guess being surprised is cool no matter if it's a pleasant surprise or not. The production is top-notch. Despite jazz being a major influence in many hip hop albums, this manages to stand out rather comfortably. It fits my preferences, as It's more on the relaxed/chill/smooth end of the spectrum rather than the energetic/hard hitting, but so very funky at the same time. On the other hand, I can't say I've been a fan of his rapping, I struggle to follow him for more than a couple of tracks in a row, it's more of a personal thing, his style simply doesn't capture my attention. As a result, I can't say too much about the lyrics as well ("I never forget a face, especially yours Because the mirror is the only dimension without flaws") but you can't deny his rhyming skills ("Counting down the days boy closer to your doom Time keeper for the Reaper, the family heirloom Like staring at my grandfather clock inside my room It'll never miss a tick-tock, it strikes everyday at noon Every hour on the hour, it'll sing a tune Every half hour it'll croon and yell out at the moon You can't escape the master time, no one is immune The hands of time will grab you when the moments opportune"), plus I have to admit there are few rappers you can understand every single word even without being fully focused and Aceyalone is clearly one of them. Another thing this album has going for it is consistency, both in terms of sound/atmosphere and in quality, too. There are no disappointing lows - or exciting highs.
To sum it up, I would rank this as about equal to Moment of Truth - higher than Siah and Yeshua Dapo ED and lower than Dr. Octagonecologyst, meaning the albums' part of this matchup is more or less a stalemate and it's gonna come down to the singles.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

Hayden — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:57:01 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 02/25/2021 22:57

Don't shoot me— just tossing my two cents out there— but I'm not too into either of these teams. The only thing on the '98 team that I like also happens to be an album I think is great, and that's Moment of Truth, which might just be the thing that gets my vote. I'm not into the Busta Rhymes or Beastie Boys tracks at all (if Intergalactic was released today it would probably be by The Lonely Island...), and the Aceyalone record kinda went in one ear and out the other a number of years back, but maybe it's worth another listen. As for the '96 team, everything is very lukewarm for me. I never settled into Dr. Octagonecologyst like many others have, I think the The Visualz EP is okay (although, I should go back and listen to it— I've only heard it as part of their larger comp, which may somehow hurt its conciseness), and the team's highlights for me are the singles, but I won't say I love either enough to sell me over Moment of Truth.

So yeah, just my opinion. I think the highs and lows here are carried by '98, and '96's entire team is floating in the middle. I'll have to mull over it, maybe relisten to some stuff, but I'm fairly impartial.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998

kokkinos — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 15:41:21 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 02/25/2021 20:41

Gang Starr - Moment of Truth came out at a critical point in their career. On the one hand, they were on a hot streak, as the three albums that preceeded this achieved massive acclaim - and deservedly so. The production brings a twist to their typical sound, it combines hard hitting with a melodic sense. On the other hand, this was their first album in four years. The rapping is at the very least as good as in their previous attempts, no signs of declining at all. Plus, there are many great guests with Inspectah Deck easily being my favorite, head and shoulders above everyone else("Stand like Colossus, regardless to whom or what Numerous attempts on my life, so who to trust? Who but us to supply ya with the fire? The burnin' truth, 150 Absolut proof On the mic like Moses spoke in golden scribe Survivor of the oldest tribe whose soldiers died"). The lyrics are once again of their trademark high quality, covering a wide variety of themes ("They innocent, they know not what they face While politicians save face genius minds lay to waste If I wasn't kickin rhymes I'd be kickin down doors Creatin social change and defendin the poor" or "Yo, it doesn't make sense, for you to compete against This New York vibe that gets your whole body tense Calm down, listen to a brother who knows Cause the rappers out here come up with mad different types of flows" or "To my man G.O.V., I remember how you used to be You were the illest man alive now I'm reading your eulogy") . If there is one complaint to be made, it has to be the running time. You can really tell it's almost 80 minutes long, it struggles to justify its length.
To sum it up, I would rank this slightly behind Dr. Octagonecologyst, but ahead of Siah and Yeshua Dapo ED.
Next one is gonna be Aceyalone - A Book of Human Language.