Best Ever Albums

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Sun, 10 Oct 2021 15:59:19 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/10/2021 19:59

mianfei wrote:

Quote:

The Queen is Dead - The Smiths (1986) [7.1/10]

Superior Alternatives:

Additional Alternatives:

Notes/Reminders/TBD:

. . .

46 Stevie Wonder Innervisions 1973
47 Pixies Doolittle 1989
48 Rolling stones Sticky fingers 1971
49 Prince Purple rain 1984
50 Love Forever changes 1967

#51 - #75 (rankings as of March 2020)

51 Beck Odelay 1996
52 Joni Mitchell Blue 1971
53 Neil Young After the goldrush 1970
54 Jeff Buckley Grace 1994
55 Stone roses The Stone roses 1989
56 Sly and the family Stone There's a riot goin' on 1971
57 Band The Band 1969
58 My bloody Valentine Loveless 1991
59 Portishead Dummy 1994
60 Fleetwood mac Rumours 1977
61 John Coltrane A love supreme 1965
62 Sonic youth Daydream nation 1988
63 Guns n' roses Appetite for destruction 1987
64 Kanye West My beautiful dark twisted fantasy 2010
65 Clash The Clash 1977
66 Captain Beefheart and the Magic band Trout mask replica 1969
67 Joy division Unknown pleasures 1979
68 Otis Redding Otis blue - Otis Redding sings soul 1965
69 R.E.M. Murmur 1983
70 David Bowie Hunky dory 1971
71 John Lennon John Lennon/Plastic Ono band 1970
72 Carole King Tapestry 1971
73 Paul Simon Graceland 1986
74 De la soul 3 feet high and rising 1989
75 Wilco Yankee hotel Foxtrot 2002

#76 - #100 (rankings as of March 2020)

76 DJ Shadow Endtroducing 1996
77 Oasis (What's the story) Morning glory? 1995
78 White stripes Elephant 2003
79 Radiohead The bends 1995
80 U2 Achtung baby 1991
81 Jesus and Mary chain Psychocandy 1985
82 Miles Davis Bitches brew 1970
83 Led zeppelin Led zeppelin 2 1969
84 Lou Reed Transformer 1972
85 Radiohead In rainbows 2007
86 Bob Dylan Bringing it all back home 1965
87 Primal scream Screamadelica 1991
88 Elvis Costello This year's model 1978
89 Derek and the Dominos Layla and other assorted love songs 1970
90 Band Music from big pink 1968
91 Sufjan Stevens Illinoise 2005
92 Tom Waits Rain dogs 1985
93 Oasis Definitely maybe 1994
94 Aretha Franklin I never loved a man the way I love you 1967
95 John Lennon Imagine 1971
96 Van Morrison Moondance 1970
97 Neil Young Harvest 1972
98 Stooges Fun house 1970
99 Iggy and the Stooges Raw power 1973
100. Pixies Surfer Rosa 1988

I found your original lists of superior and other alternatives worthwhile enough that I would be interested to see what you would recommend for The Queen Is Dead (and why was that album not listed originally?), Blue Lines (I might ask about Lamb in that context) and for most albums between 46 and 100 on Acclaimed Music.

Thanks for the reminder. I just hadn't got back around to updating this, that's all.

Queen is Dead is an interesting one. I'd have to think about it a bit but... "Superior" albums that I would rate alongside or above it might be The Cure's Pornography, Disintegration. Perhaps Unknown Pleasures ... though they have the post-punk and the bent towards a similar sort of darkness, they don't really have the same comedic bite; they're more pure tragedies instead of tragi-comic ... Plus, Smiths are much more a "pop" incarnation than Joy Division). The best albums of T-Rex, possibly, The Byrds, REM, The Kinks, Scott Walker, Sisters of Mercy, Echo and the Bunnymen's Ocean Rain ... And... The Doors is probably a bit too much of a stretch even if tonally and dramatically, they are at least partially the source of this sort of thing... Black Heart Procession 2, although much folkier, is an interesting thought (would Nick Drake, such as Five Leaves Left, be going a bit too far?) ... Talking Heads (too neurotic?) ... Hmmm, Roxy Music.. Anyway, I'll give it more precision thinking as soon as I come back around to updating this.

Really like your chart by the way! Easily among the more interesting ones on the whole site (dig the write ups too). And I am jealous that you've discovered the "secret" magic to Moondance. I really like the album but am somewhat baffled by its masterpiece status, especially if compared to Astral Weeks. I am probably missing some angle on it that I, for whatever reason, have never quite locked into.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

mianfei — Sun, 10 Oct 2021 05:49:21 GMT

Author: mianfei

Posted: 10/10/2021 09:49

Quote:

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Sun, 3 May 2020 19:17:09 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 05/03/2020 23:17

Spyglass wrote:

Several of these albums are in my top 100, and a couple are in my top 10. Finding an album more superior to TVU&N is a daunting task. And three of those Beatles albums are practically perfect.

I checked out your chart and really dig it. Love how you included your own thoughts/prose for your selections. I was wondering at first, whose quotes are these from until I realized ... it's yours!

Agreed on the VU and Nico! Almost impossible! Their creativity, emotional expression and conceptualization conveyed per voice and instrument and combining into the overall sound world (truly nary a moment wasted to further develop their singular art throughout each of the songs) is unlikely to ever be repeated -- and I'm not sure it could be no matter how expert or how hard one tried. They were each so uniquely individual, the band as a whole an extremely improbable combination of talents and insights, somehow forged so that they are all so perfectly aligned to their characterizations and their astonishing abject expressionist sound "frescoes" that encapsulate and foretell the remainder of the century as if they already lay in the rubble and ruins of its aftermath, the whole of its anxieties and fatalistic preoccupations laid bare, exhausted, haunting them, luring them forth until finally in its deafening, apocalyptic majesty.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

Spyglass — Sun, 3 May 2020 13:49:48 GMT

Author: Spyglass

Posted: 05/03/2020 17:49

Several of these albums are in my top 100, and a couple are in my top 10. Finding an album more superior to TVU&N is a daunting task. And three of those Beatles albums are practically perfect.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

fjooso — Sun, 3 May 2020 09:07:26 GMT

Author: fjooso

Posted: 05/03/2020 13:07

Hey guys. Are you posting your personal preferences or just the most popular albums of all time? Has anybody ever analyzed what are the most winning albums in the history of music? I am from https://populationstat.com/france/. And I have notices local radio stations are promoting local music. But some tracks are really a history, do you agree to it? They are really international and belong to the world.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 10:38:56 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/28/2020 14:38

MISC NOTE: None of my asterisk/star ratings for the selections are "final", particularly for 1-star/asterisks. I am still playing with them and adjusting here and there. Some of the 1-asterisk/stars will fall off as a "median" more definitively develops for the selections in relation to each accompanying acclaimedmusic.net album, and then in relation to each other across the whole list (which will probably, in turn, cause some 2's to drop to 1, some 3's to drop to 2...).

I am trying to keep it consistent across the whole list, but it's of course an interesting balancing act, with many variables and with so many disparate albums.

It is intentional that I haven't defined more detailed parameters yet (from 1 star/asterisk to 4), because I am still working them out myself!

So, in offering recommendations soon or in the future, it is of no consequence that I might disagree with some here or some there and I wouldn't even consider a whole set of recs that I disagreed with to be a waste of time from anyone. It is likely more my fault than the person recommending them for the simple fact that I haven't given a very defined criteria so far.

Perhaps the best way to get a decent grip on it and hope to figure it out is to look over those already listed and do one's best to determine one's recs in alignment with those. But it's not a perfect system by any means and I don't expect supreme accuracy especially when it is still very much in-progress and the goal posts are still changing a little bit here and there as I go.

You are also welcome to recommend different star/asterisk ratings for those I've already listed. Ex: " ____________ album should be 3-stars instead of 2 because of..." Etc.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:33:09 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/27/2020 21:33

DelBocaVista wrote:

Re: Demos
I do see how "this punk-garage/VU revival stuff should pretty much sound like that anyway", so that could make Modern Lovers qualify. The way I see it, it's a matter of intent. A recording "intended" as a demo just lays out the lyrics/melody/chords/some of the arrangement, with the rest to be added (or included in a new recording) later, so it shouldn't be subject to evaluation. Of course an album of demos of the White Album wouldn't count because there's already the official release. But being the one and only "official" release (as in the Modern Lovers case) is not necessarily enough. What qualifies, say, Springsteen's Nebraska is that he "sanctioned" it as official, whereas with Modern Lovers it was Warner doing that. What qualifies, say, Down Colorful Hill are the overdubs (made in 1992 to the 1989 recordings).

Re: Nevermind/Jagged Little Pill Exile/Volunteers ... Great points!

More:

Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan
- Fire Of Love - Gun Club
- Cosmo's Factory - CCR?
- Fiery Furnaces

The Beatles - The Beatles
- The Madcap Laughs

Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
- Beautiful Loser - Bob Seger
- Night Moves - Bob Seger

Marquee Moon - Television
- Feelies

Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix
- Super Session

Led Zeppelin IV - Led Zeppelin
- Jane's Addiction

Beggar's Banquet - The Rolling Stones
- Fiery Furnaces

Remain in Light - Talking Heads
- Ege Bamyası - Can?
- P-funk

You definitely have a point on the demos, one I would probably even follow in most cases, but in this instance Modern Lovers seems pretty complete and brought to life as an album to me, and I'm probably going to stick with making an exception. Other types of exceptions I may make (eventually) is if an artist's work is only available in comp form but should still be listed due to importance/quality (for instance, someone like Robert Johnson who's most famous/best "album" may be 7/10+ but is obv only in comp form).

RE: Hwy61
All of those make sense in their own ways (Dylan is/was SO influential so it's hard not to hear him in so much significant music). They're each somewhere between "prominent enough correlation" to "not" and maybe all in the middle ground where I couldn't quite give them 1 asterisk but also might do so. So haven't decided on those yet and will probably revisit.

Re: White Album
Madcap Laughs is an intriguing idea for this one that I haven't considered before. Creative idea! I can see the possibility hanging there. Will revisit soon...

Re: Born To Run
Probably a yes to both of those, or at least in correlation to other Springsteen. Thank you for the reminder

Re: Marquee Moon
Hmmmmmm 🤔 Interesting point that I'll get back to you one sooner/later

Re: Electric Ladyland
Great suggestion. Been sooo long I think, so will have to get back to you

Re: Led Zep IV
Good one - JA is a possibility for this or maybe another Zep. Also for Guns N' Roses

Re: Beggar's Banq
Yep, Gallowsbird's Bark is a likely inclusion for this period and/or earlier Stones (not Satanic Majesty's of course, but before that)

Re: Remain in Light
Can is an intriguing one that somehow had never occured to me in relation to TH. Not sure why? Anyway, P-Funk is another excellent suggest

Thank you!

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:11:41 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/27/2020 21:11

DelBocaVista wrote:

Blood on the Tracks - Bob Dylan
- John Prine

Yes - great one! Added

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

DelBocaVista — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 21:40:16 GMT

Author: DelBocaVista

Posted: 03/27/2020 01:40

Blood on the Tracks - Bob Dylan
- John Prine

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

DelBocaVista — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 20:16:44 GMT

Author: DelBocaVista

Posted: 03/27/2020 00:16

Re: Demos
I do see how "this punk-garage/VU revival stuff should pretty much sound like that anyway", so that could make Modern Lovers qualify. The way I see it, it's a matter of intent. A recording "intended" as a demo just lays out the lyrics/melody/chords/some of the arrangement, with the rest to be added (or included in a new recording) later, so it shouldn't be subject to evaluation. Of course an album of demos of the White Album wouldn't count because there's already the official release. But being the one and only "official" release (as in the Modern Lovers case) is not necessarily enough. What qualifies, say, Springsteen's Nebraska is that he "sanctioned" it as official, whereas with Modern Lovers it was Warner doing that. What qualifies, say, Down Colorful Hill are the overdubs (made in 1992 to the 1989 recordings).

Re: Nevermind/Jagged Little Pill Exile/Volunteers ... Great points!

More:

Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan
- Fire Of Love - Gun Club
- Cosmo's Factory - CCR?
- Fiery Furnaces

The Beatles - The Beatles
- The Madcap Laughs

Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
- Beautiful Loser - Bob Seger
- Night Moves - Bob Seger

Marquee Moon - Television
- Feelies

Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix
- Super Session

Led Zeppelin IV - Led Zeppelin
- Jane's Addiction

Beggar's Banquet - The Rolling Stones
- Fiery Furnaces

Remain in Light - Talking Heads
- Ege Bamyası - Can?
- P-funk

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 02:02:57 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/26/2020 06:02

DelBocaVista wrote:

Fun!

I would remove Modern Lovers because I think it's an album of demos

Exile On Main Street - The Rolling Stones
- I would remove Jefferson Airplane (too epic and too "communal")

Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
- Bat Out Of Hell

It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
- Rage Against the Machine (same reason as MC5, but more rap)

Horses - Patti Smith
- White Light/White Heat (garage-based "ritualisic" music, just not depraved in Patti's case)

Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix
- Early Soft Machine
- Peter Green (since you have Miles)
- Traffic

Strokes - Is This It
- Richard Hell
- Talking Heads: 77
- TV on the Radio

Re Modern Lovers ... If its an official release/album its an official release/album. Isnt Down Colorful Hill basically demos anyway? ...Besides, this punk-garage/VU revival stuff should pretty much sound like that anyway 😎

Re: Exile/Volunteers ... Not a bad point at all but theyre (probably) similar enough in my opinion. The drugs/excess of each (Volunteers more lost and haunted by hallucinations during its peak tracks; Exile more drunken/heroin/orgiastic revelry), the instrumentation, technical and expressive similarities including genre confluences. It does seem like each band may have been watching/influencing the other during this general time period (sort of akin to The Beatles and Beach Boys) with JA a bit more experimental at their peak but never far from their roots rock/rock n roll/country/americana base which, aside from Slick, was not disimilar to the Stones a couple years later circa Sticky Fingers/Exile.

Re: Born To Run/Bat Out of Hell ... Good one. Probably agree.

Re: Public Enemy/Rage ... Cant believe I missed this, which is a better idea than me alluding to a possible MC5 inclusion (more direct than MC5). MC5 is probably too distant to really be added but Rage might be the perfect middle point.

Re: Horses/WLWH ... Doubt Ill put these together even though your point is well made. Ultimately the expressive results are too disrelated I think.

Re: Electric Ladyland ... Traffic is a good possibility and one I forgot. Even though I threw Miles on the TBD list (which is far from a guarantee for inclusion) he is probably a long shot. Green and Soft Machine probably in the same boat but will be revisited with Hendrix in mind.

Re: Is This It ... All 3 probably have a shot. Hell and TV more so than Talking Heads though by that I dont mean TH is completely out of the picture

Again, thank you for all of these including your PMs. Feel free to drop some more as they come to you!

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 01:42:26 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/26/2020 05:42

Facetious wrote:

There's definitely a shorter 6.5 or low 7 album/EP hidden in it. I think I would keep the songs I mentioned above, not sure about the interludes (haven't revisited the album). What about you?

Update: Rhythm Nation seemed like 6/10 this time so either will make its way back to 6.5 next time or settle in around the 6s. Now pretty snugly in between my last 2 assessments. In other words, I have no idea what Im talking about 🤣 ...because it also now seemed better than Control when I revisited that, just to further confuse things! 🤔

This might just mean I need to lock into a groove on R and B/Dance/Soul music by going back through many of its landmarks and adjacent greats in a relatively short/consistent time period and refresh my grip on the genre. A little shaky right now. Too much psych in my ears I think 😄

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 20:58:34 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/26/2020 00:58

DelBocaVista wrote:

Fun!

I would remove Modern Lovers because I think it's an album of demos

Nevermind - Nirvana
- Jagged Little Pill

What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
- A Love Supreme 😄

Exile On Main Street - The Rolling Stones
- I would remove Jefferson Airplane (too epic and too "communal")

Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
- Bat Out Of Hell

It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
- Rage Against the Machine (same reason as MC5, but more rap)

Horses - Patti Smith
- White Light/White Heat (garage-based "ritualisic" music, just not depraved in Patti's case)

Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix
- Early Soft Machine
- Peter Green (since you have Miles)
- Traffic

Strokes - Is This It
- Richard Hell
- Talking Heads: 77
- TV on the Radio

Several interesting ideas! Making me think! (a mistake? 🤣 )

Nirvana / Jagged Little Pill is an interesting one but the main point of Jagged Little Pill is how voice and arrangement constantly fluctuates or modulates to dramatize the unwinding storytelling (the voice constantly changing in the act of the moment playing out in real-time). This is a descendant from Blonde On Blonde (story telling ... the dense and vibrant, often swirling, multi-color of arrangements facilitating this in juxtaposed concept and poetic gradation) the main difference being B on B is a more profound and articulate and deftly surreal, metaphysical example (as a whole, and it's sound world despite massively influential, also completely unique in all of rock history, even Dylan's own) while JLP is a much more "impulsive" example, crossed with proto punk and emotional instability of Patti Smith's Horses. Although I can see a correlation in the visceral emotional outcries of this and Nevermind, I am not sure if I would agree they share a prominent correlation -- at least enough to be added. Up for debate though. Maybe there is something to JLP being a further development of Nevermind in some ways. It certainly shares a bit of its impulse and punk spirit. Hmmmmm...

What's Going On vs A Love Supreme. I almost think I had this one on this list back at listology? Am I right? I don't know if I would agree with it now, but there is certainly a correlation between how each progresses through it's own spiritual progression. Btw, What's Going On seems like a very difficult one to come up with correlations for, though maybe I just need to revisit a lot more R & B/Soul soon and I'll start coming up with them easier than it seems at the moment. Or maybe there's just too few influences that are 6.8+. It's a very hit and miss genre IMO that doesn't often lend well to artistic individuality/creativity of the highest order (practically all its best ideas seem fundamentally predated by Jazz masterpieces, often years or decades in advance).

More later...

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 16:55:23 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/25/2020 20:55

Facetious wrote:

There's definitely a shorter 6.5 or low 7 album/EP hidden in it. I think I would keep the songs I mentioned above, not sure about the interludes (haven't revisited the album). What about you?

Maybe but I would strongly doubt it at this point. For me, it is almost impossible for a "definite 6.5-7" to be among a 5.5/10. Just very unlikely that there would be such a massive discrepancy between parts on that mediocre of an album. I will probably revisit RN once more to ensure it's rating one way or the other so I'm not closing the door on it just yet. For now I would say there is not enough positive-rating material to warrant 6.5 or 7 no matter the editing of tracks or combinations of tracks. I think you're own ratings are (sometimes? often?) a bit less strict in these regards -- probably (very rough estimate) about 1.0 different than mine (my 5s are often 6s to you; my 6s are often 7s to you; my 7s are often 8s to you...maybe they even out above that?).

I went away from yesterday's RN listen thinking (estimates) "5.3/10 overall" and that the first 1/2 was perhaps 5.4 and the 2nd 1/2 perhaps 4.8. But I might change my mind if I revisit it again. Title track and Black Cat seemed much better than the rest. But sometimes (at first) I do have a tough time jumping from a lot of the stuff I usually listen to into an almost entirely pop/mainstream universe like RN and listening to it without bias and in an actual state of present observation and assimilation to what is creative about it, its emotional/conceptual conveyance and so on. This happened to me for the first song or two of Thriller (which I revisited after), but then I cleared this away and started observing "it" and its merits and the album's qualities came into being more and more so to speak. So I decided while listening to Thriller that I should probably go back in on Rhythm Nation to ensure yesterday's listen was "legit" or not, and to also double check that RN might not have some of the same merits that make Thriller special. So, going to give it one more chance before dropping it from 6.5 to 5.5...

As a note re: Rolling Stones comparison. To clarify, I am not referring to any substantial similarity in the sound worlds of each or even the main purpose in their music. I was only referring to the syncopation + the dance or gospel rhythmic function. As something of a side note: The Stones are in the running for most influential band/artists in rock history and while their main influence was obviously towards punk and hard rock and blues rock, they were very much woven into the foundational fabric of "dirtier" pop/r & b/glam rock also that drew on Jagger's persona and the ambiguous (dirty/demonic vs spiritual/salvation) character of their songs and instrumentation to form their own amalgamation (such as Prince or Guns N Roses and lots of acts in between those poles) ...and I was alluding to this side-influence with Rhythm Nation but wasn't (intentionally) characterizing them as having any substantial close correlation. It was meant as a side note, that's all, that I was just noting while amidst revisiting the Rolling Stones' best albums and then listening to RN again.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

DelBocaVista — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:16:31 GMT

Author: DelBocaVista

Posted: 03/25/2020 17:16

Fun!

I would remove Modern Lovers because I think it's an album of demos

Nevermind - Nirvana
- Jagged Little Pill

What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
- A Love Supreme 😄

Exile On Main Street - The Rolling Stones
- I would remove Jefferson Airplane (too epic and too "communal")

Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
- Bat Out Of Hell

It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
- Rage Against the Machine (same reason as MC5, but more rap)

Horses - Patti Smith
- White Light/White Heat (garage-based "ritualisic" music, just not depraved in Patti's case)

Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix
- Early Soft Machine
- Peter Green (since you have Miles)
- Traffic

Strokes - Is This It
- Richard Hell
- Talking Heads: 77
- TV on the Radio

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

Facetious — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:24:19 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 03/25/2020 16:24

AfterHours wrote:

Edit: just finished revisiting Rhythm Nation and will be downgrading it (to probably 5.5 range), though this didnt change the points mentioned above. Just didnt feel its strengths were as strong or consistent as I remembered them being (too much mediocrity or filler in between its highlights). So yes, I would agree with you that Thriller is superior.

There's definitely a shorter 6.5 or low 7 album/EP hidden in it. I think I would keep the songs I mentioned above, not sure about the interludes (haven't revisited the album). What about you?

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

Facetious — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:21:45 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 03/25/2020 16:21

AfterHours wrote:

Its only a 0.1 point difference and could go either way.
But is it even possible to have more classics than Rhythm Nation?

I guess it could depend on one's definition of "classic" to which I assume you meant "famous hit songs" if we're comparing to Thriller and the like?

I dont listen often to any of these any more, so it could easily change if I checked out the 2 Janets and Thriller again -- all it takes is some shift here or there with only 0.1 between them. With its "New Jack Swing", Rhythm Nation approaches Public Enemy (at times) in terms of ferocity and sometimes almost approaches echoes The Rolling Stones' syncopation circa Sympathy for the Devil; Jigsaw Puzzle; Salt of the Earth and perhaps some of the visceral bacchanals of Exile

>>>>EDIT ... EXCURSION RE ROLLING STONES: key words are "sometimes", "almost", "approaches" and "echoes" ... In all rock history the Stones are probably unmatched in this regard while still maintaining an stable/unstable structure and momentum -- on the brink of teetering from its anchor but never quite -- but still at the rhythmic foundation of the "rock n' roll" song always at their core ... There are others that took gospel/rock/blues/jazz rhythm/syncopation beyond this such as Beefheart but tended to only do so in a freeer and more experimental formats, where rock n roll is further and further lost ... The Stones are the peak example and perhaps the limit while still strongly and wholly maintaining this identity. In retrospect, Public Enemy's hip hop rhythm & syncopation is a better more direct comparison while still quite elevated, more awe inspiring, from RN's contribution/development.

At RN peaks, it can convey a sort of delirious anarchy of its "dance till you drop" MO. Its main point of mediocrity is Janet's vocals, which are more or less serviceable throughout and probably only truly compelling when she is conveying a strong, independent (almost angry/threatening) woman that's had enough. When she is someone else on this album she tends to lack a strong enough individual and palpable sense of character and/or real sense of soul. Of course Jones' production work on Thriller is superb in its own right, and MJs vocals are probably better on avg than Janets on RN, so despite having one of the worst songs of all time (the "classic" with McCartney), it might still have enough (Ive almost placed it 6.8 in the past).

Probably the best stand out song on RN is the title track and I think I recall another stand out on the 2nd side with Black Cat. Will revisit... The interludes also contribute more than is the norm, adding to the concept/theme.

I see the Public Enemy comparison, but apart from the excellent title track and a few others like Miss You Much, Alright, Escapade, and maybe Black Cat and State of the World, I don't see the album reaching those heights much. It's a solid 6 for me overall. Control (6.5 for me) benefits from being far tighter but doesn't maintain the same momentum as the first three tracks imo.
Thriller, on the other hand, starts with a bang with that opener and from Beat It to PYT has zero misfires. It's just far more consistent for me.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 13:42:37 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/24/2020 17:42

Edit: just finished revisiting Rhythm Nation and will be downgrading it (to probably 5.5 range), though this didnt change the points mentioned above. Just didnt feel its strengths were as strong or consistent as I remembered them being (too much mediocrity or filler in between its highlights). So yes, I would agree with you that Thriller is superior.

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

AfterHours — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 13:01:54 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/24/2020 17:01

Facetious wrote:

Would have to disagree on Janet Jackson's albums being superior to Thriller. Thriller has too many classics.
Which tracks on the Janet albums stand out to you by the way?

Re: Most Acclaimed Albums - Alternative Selections

Facetious — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 11:49:38 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 03/24/2020 15:49

Would have to disagree on Janet Jackson's albums being superior to Thriller. Thriller has too many classics.
Which tracks on the Janet albums stand out to you by the way?