Best Ever Albums

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

RoundTheBend — Tue, 4 Oct 2022 23:55:58 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/05/2022 03:55

I'm messin y'all, I mean mostly.

I'm just saying this is common consensus to be an amazing album by my friends on the other side of the pond, but I personally don't know a breathing American who really loves it. Just internet American's and at this point, who trusts those blokes?

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

RoundTheBend — Tue, 4 Oct 2022 23:53:56 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/05/2022 03:53

kokkinos wrote:

I've always found it curious that it's their highest ranked album here. I mean, it's my favourite of theirs and that's by some distance, but I thought their alternative rock ventures - also known as 13 - would be more BEA-friendly than the pure Britpop of Parklife.

You are American and you have good taste.

So, yes, I agree. hehehehe

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Sun, 2 Oct 2022 02:59:01 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/02/2022 06:59

kokkinos wrote:

Yeah, Talking Heads were the first band that came to mind when we got into this subject, I didn't bring them up because of the UK limitation you set - though the cheat in me wants to say that David Byrne was born in the UK, so they count. 😄

Art Rock basically means Eno is involved in some way 😉

Quote:

The Pistols/Clash debate is quite a spectacle, as fans of both sides tend to call the other out for being fake/pretentious/not punk enough – Pistols are supposed to be too commercial/watered down for the masses/figureheads of their manager, while Clash are too subtle/classy/sophisticated/professional. Interesting, sure, but rather funny as well.

Yeah punk purists of all types get tiresome quickly. Though I’d say Reynolds’ opinions in his book Rip it up and Start Again are more interesting -even though I wasn’t completely persuaded by his point of view. Reynolds is maybe more of a post-punk purist, which was good food for thought. The Clash didn’t really fit with his notions of the kind of punk that inspired the post-punk bands.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

kokkinos — Sat, 1 Oct 2022 17:04:45 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 10/01/2022 21:04

theblueboy wrote:

quintessential art rockers seem to be bands like Roxy Music and Talking Heads.

theblueboy wrote:

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

CharlieBarley — Sat, 1 Oct 2022 08:41:33 GMT

Author: CharlieBarley

Posted: 10/01/2022 12:41

for me a classic
the sort of album I will put on when I'm feeling good
To The End is my favourite track

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Sep 2022 02:35:59 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/29/2022 06:35

kokkinos wrote:

Yeah, alt rock would be more defensible. But yeah, I think there is a sense of precision and detail, along with pop/ melodic sensibilities that unites the three bands I mentioned. I was reaching for a more specific term, which doesn’t really exist.

Quote:

And yes, I see that it’s not as easy to draw such parallels with the bands I mentioned. Radiohead is probably the most obvious, their commercial counterpart could be Muse. Talk Talk went through the most impossible transformation ever, so I guess it makes sense to say they are the most sophisticated version of ... themselves, lol. Maybe early Floyd could be compared with some of the “silly” psychedelic music of the time, but I can’t think of anything for their progressive era, same for King Crimson, all their peers took their music too seriously.

Agreed, though I’m not hung up on the comparison thing. It’s just a weird thing where quintessential art rockers seem to be bands like Roxy Music and Talking Heads. So the comparison thingy is just a theory about that. It’s not so important though. I’m pretty happy to drop art-rock as a genre description due to its vaugeness.

Quote:

Anyway, based on the rules you set, you definitely have a respectable trinity, though I’d like to throw in The Clash as candidate for the art version of punk and Pulp for the art version of Britpop.
Also, I’m wondering if the entire post-punk genre is included by default, since it was supposed to be a more “intellectual” version of punk? If that’s the case, Joy Division and The Cure are also in the running for a spot.

Yeah, Clash are an interesting call. Simon Reynolds (well known Brit music journalist) was quite critical of them for sort of being classic rock pretenders in punk clothes (in the sense that they were self-righteous/ sticking it to the man, which Reynolds seemed to see as less vital to punk compared to the Pistol’s nihilism). I always found that interesting. I do like them just not as much as Wire and XTC.

Personally, I prefer Wire to the Cure and Joy Division. A lot would disagree though 😄 Pulp were great at their best. I don’t think they were as consistent as Blur or XTC.

Don’t worry about going down rabbit holes 😉

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

kokkinos — Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:23:31 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 09/28/2022 21:23

theblueboy wrote:

Yeah, impossible to come up with a good definition of "art rock" because there is no definition of art that everyone can agree on. Weirdly though- even though those bands you mention are easily as arty and rock as the ones I mentioned- I feel that they fit my sense of art rock less so than Blur, XTC and Wire. I think this is because my notion is mainly due to the way that the term has been used in the British music press. Art school bands get contrasted with no nonsense rockers. E.g. Bowie and Roxy were considered the art rock version of glam rock. XTC and Wire were art rock versions of new wave and punk respectively. Blur the art rock version of Oasis's back to basics britpop. It might have more to do with how tight your jeans are, overall jerkiness and asymmetrical fringes than anything especially musical lol.

With Floyd, Crimson, Radiohead and possibly Talk Talk as well, I see less of a point of comparison for the no-nonsense version of what they do. Overall, I'd say they might tend to get called progressive rather than arty for that reason. Also, they are just not as good as the three bands I mentioned hehe

But yeah, all that is a slightly awkward justification as I'm saying that art rockers are arty versions of commercially viable music rather than necessarily being "art for art's sake" type of bands. Even so, there is something that seems to unite Blur, XTC and Wire in my mind. I was reaching and "art rock" was the best that sprang up 🤡 Not sure if they all formed at art school. I think Blur did.

(All of this may be meaningless, but it’s the kind of meaningless I love overthinking and it’s interesting nonetheless, so I’ll keep going down the rabbit hole a bit more. Feel free to stop me anytime.)
Ok, I think I get it, that’s far from the definition I had in mind – which wasn’t that clear to begin with. Maybe alternative rock would be closer to what you are describing, I don’t know.
And yes, I see that it’s not as easy to draw such parallels with the bands I mentioned. Radiohead is probably the most obvious, their commercial counterpart could be Muse. Talk Talk went through the most impossible transformation ever, so I guess it makes sense to say they are the most sophisticated version of ... themselves, lol. Maybe early Floyd could be compared with some of the “silly” psychedelic music of the time, but I can’t think of anything for their progressive era, same for King Crimson, all their peers took their music too seriously.
Anyway, based on the rules you set, you definitely have a respectable trinity, though I’d like to throw in The Clash as candidate for the art version of punk and Pulp for the art version of Britpop.
Also, I’m wondering if the entire post-punk genre is included by default, since it was supposed to be a more “intellectual” version of punk? If that’s the case, Joy Division and The Cure are also in the running for a spot.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Sep 2022 04:40:00 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/27/2022 08:40

Skinny wrote:

“Art rock” seems to me to be a largely meaningless term - but, even with that caveat, Blur (who I enjoy quite a bit) surely don’t qualify?

Yeah, it's ultimately an undefinable term, though I think serves a function in certain contexts. E.g. providing contrast with more back to basics bands. On this basis, Blur can be considered arty because they were more clever than Oasis and Ocean Colour Scene. Though this may be damning them with faint praise lol.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Sep 2022 04:35:31 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/27/2022 08:35

MadhattanJack wrote:

Someone made a chart a while back, but oddly enough, none of those three bands are on it! 😕

I have to forgive it though, because of the problems with defining art rock.

Quote:

Besides, if you're going to establish a "holy trinity" then you'll also need an unholy trinity to go along with it, and that's just gonna get super-messy if you ask me.

The unholy trinity might be even better 😄

Edit: Just looked at the chart and Blur are actually on there (with 13) 🤣 Pulp also on there interestingly.

It’s a solid chart to be fair. Heavier on the prog than my own definition of art rock suggests, but worth a look.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Sep 2022 04:31:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/27/2022 08:31

kokkinos wrote:

theblueboy wrote:

My other thought is that Blur, XTC and Wire are the UK’s art rock holy trinity.

Bowie is great but still only comes in 4th 8-[

Hmm, I had never thought of it that way.
I guess it depends on how loose the definition of "art rock" is. Do you consider bands like Radiohead, Talk Talk, Pink Floyd or King Crimson to fall into this category?

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Skinny — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:47:52 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 09/26/2022 23:47

“Art rock” seems to me to be a largely meaningless term - but, even with that caveat, Blur (who I enjoy quite a bit) surely don’t qualify?

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

MadhattanJack — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:17:00 GMT

Author: MadhattanJack

Posted: 09/26/2022 21:17

Someone made a chart a while back, but oddly enough, none of those three bands are on it! 😕

Besides, if you're going to establish a "holy trinity" then you'll also need an unholy trinity to go along with it, and that's just gonna get super-messy if you ask me.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

kokkinos — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:05:09 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 09/26/2022 21:05

theblueboy wrote:

My other thought is that Blur, XTC and Wire are the UK’s art rock holy trinity.

Bowie is great but still only comes in 4th 8-[

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:41:15 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/26/2022 09:41

My other thought is that Blur, XTC and Wire are the UK’s art rock holy trinity.

Bowie is great but still only comes in 4th 😨

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:56:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/26/2022 07:56

I can never get enough listens of Tracy Jacks and To the End. Great album, but still one where I tend to go to particular tracks rather than the whole thing. As full albums, I like the flow of Modern Life and 13 best. Parklife is the most seminal though, no doubt.

Re: Charming Men.
Sure, Blur were charming (in spades), but they did flirt with being charmless. Great Expectations was just a bit too full of themselves and self satisfied. I think they realised this too- Albarn has dismissed the album in interviews. It has several incredible songs though. Modern Life has to be their most charming album. They still sound like a scrappy band trying to cut through. You can sort of tell they knew when making Parklife that they would be huge, which makes it a little harder to love.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

MadhattanJack — Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:41:15 GMT

Author: MadhattanJack

Posted: 09/25/2022 20:41

DommeDamian wrote:

Also the counterpoint of not making impact on the popscene and the death of a party ( 😁 ), not only is 13 very anti-pop music but pretty much anything on BEA's and RYM's top charts that isn't MJ, Bowie, up-beat Beatles, Zeppelin, Nirvana, few songs from Doors, Kanye, few songs from Kendrick, Arctic Monkeys, Prince would most likely cause major damage to the party too. Comparing 13 it to what it would sound like at a party is really doing it a disservice, borderline disrespecting what it conveys. :lol:

I was just being facetious there, but it's also harder for me to be objective about a band like Blur because I was buying their albums as soon as they came out — i.e., in sequence, with plenty of time in between. So I associate albums like 13 and Think Tank with a strong feeling of disappointment after a long wait, because I'd been hoping for material that was more like Parklife and The Great Escape and didn't get it. Of course, that happened with a lot of bands in those days — probably the majority of the ones I was into, in fact.

I don't think it affects the order in which I rank albums by any particular band though, it just makes me more negative and bad-mouthy about whichever album is the "disappointment." I guess I could be wrong about that, though.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

DommeDamian — Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:47:10 GMT

Author: DommeDamian

Posted: 09/25/2022 16:47

Imo calling anything by Blur charmless would be like calling Radiohead not RYM or BEA-friendly or Mount Everest for a small hill. Simply put, Blur is easily one of the most charming bands I have ever listened to. Every album has its own charm (but really). Albeit I think 13 isn't trying to have charm (except classics like Tender, Coffee & TV, Mellow Song) as much as express different kinds of devastating emotions. Parklife is highly charmful with its diversity, childlike goofiness and musical aspects. Though if I should consider a Blur album charmless it would be Think Tank as it is just an album (and an average at that).

Also the counterpoint of not making impact on the popscene and the death of a party ( 😁 ), not only is 13 very anti-pop music but pretty much anything on BEA's and RYM's top charts that isn't MJ, Bowie, up-beat Beatles, Zeppelin, Nirvana, few songs from Doors, Kanye, few songs from Kendrick, Arctic Monkeys, Prince would most likely cause major damage to the party too. Comparing 13 it to what it would sound like at a party is really doing it a disservice, borderline disrespecting what it conveys. 🤣

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:36:27 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/25/2022 13:36

kokkinos wrote:

Thanksfully BEA still can recognize a true classic !

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

kokkinos — Sun, 25 Sep 2022 03:23:16 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 09/25/2022 07:23

MadhattanJack wrote:

Bah, 13 was a charmless album. It had little or no impact on the popscene at the time, it would cause the death of any party you played it during, and frankly it didn't entertain me. Whereas, Parklife... I've got it ranked at #38 all-time, and I was even thinking of bumping it up a notch or two! Maybe I'll do that tomorrow, since tomorrow is Sunday Sunday.

I might even go so far as to say that the BEA "system," by essentially forcing people to make charts for multiple decades in order to level up, tends to weed out people who don't appreciate multiple genres, given that your favorite genre might not have existed at all in an earlier decade. Though I couldn't say if that really applies in this case, because Parklife (at least in my opinion) is just so much more diverse-sounding and well-constructed than their other albums.

Charmless? I thought that was The Great Escape (charmless man 😁 )
Joking aside, I can tell you've put a lot of thought into BEA-mechanics and you are raising an interesting point, though I'm not sure "diverse-sounding and well-constructed" are the main reasons for Parklife's placement. As I was saying the other day when BEA's and RYM's top-100 were discussed, I think cultural impact is a major factor in BEA's overall chart. I mean, Oasis have two albums ranked higher than Parklife.

Re: Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

MadhattanJack — Sat, 24 Sep 2022 16:22:27 GMT

Author: MadhattanJack

Posted: 09/24/2022 20:22

kokkinos wrote: