Best Ever Albums

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

GARY — Sun, 5 Feb 2012 04:39:07 GMT

Author: GARY

Posted: 02/05/2012 09:39

albummaster wrote:

I like the idea of naming your own rank at the top level

Will this ever happen ?

.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 15:19:43 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/24/2011 19:19

I am not saying don't have the thumb things if they work, I am saying don't delete any comments from the member rankings. Or if you think they should have double jeopardy, drastically increase the number of negatives recognizing the problem and the silent.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:23:30 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/24/2011 18:23

I don't know what makes you think it is a popularity contest, but there is no way that it's of benefit to have a hole in the system for somebody to exploit. Where does popularity come into this?

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 13:07:04 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/24/2011 17:07

You have the data, but looking at the top 20, 13 had reductions, 1 didn't have comments. Again the popularity contest is flawed and should not be used to eliminate comments for member totals.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:33:59 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/24/2011 16:33

Yes, I understand that view, but this mechanism will stop comment spam. The forums are a bit easier to keep an eye on, but the rest of the site is spread over 500,000 pages.

EDIT: Let me add as well, most people are not affected by this, as very few comments are voted down to -3 (430 comments out of 25,000).

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:26:58 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/24/2011 16:26

I understand the concept of the thumbs in the charts. What I am having difficulty accepting is the notion that a comment with only a small number of unfavorable (non-helpful) reviews should somehow be excluded from the member rankings. Should we exclude non-helpful post and ratings? My feeling is we shouldn't: a comment is a comment, a small chart is a small chart.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:19:02 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/24/2011 16:19

Let me expand on the usefulness concept and why it exists. It was the original intention to highlight/showcase the most useful comments for each album/band/chart/track so that visitors could see the most insightful comments (in a similar way to Amazon where they show the best reviews first). Any visitor to BEA can sort by 'helpfulness' on those pages (although comments are sorted chronologically by default.

This function also allows unhelpful comments to be hidden from view (the default threshold is -2 votes, but this can be changed from your user profile page).

EDIT: Sorry, I think our posts crossed. To answer briefly, that's why I think the icons need to change (earlier post).

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:16:57 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/24/2011 16:16

So if two vocal people don't find a comment useful, while the author and many non-vocals might have we will not count the comment. Doesn't seem fair to me, especially when you admit the thumbs haven't been used as intended.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:04:55 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/24/2011 16:04

RFNAPLES wrote:

Is it fair that if one or two people disagree with a comment, that the comment is thrown in the dung pile and not counted as a comment? Should your last post not be counted because this one disagrees with it?

As stated a couple of times earlier in this thread (and still seems the case), people are misunderstanding the point of the current thumb system - the votes are NOT meant to represent your endorsement of a comment, they are meant to indicate whether you found a comment useful or not (in a yes/no kind of way).

RFNAPLES wrote:

Should posts be ignored if emoticons are used with fewer than 3 words?

There is not going to be anything that says posts with x number of words will be discounted (that would be pointless and could easily be circumvented).

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:44:26 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/24/2011 15:44

Is it fair that if one or two people disagree with a comment, that the comment is thrown in the dung pile and not counted as a comment? Should your last post not be counted because this one disagrees with it? Should posts be ignored if emoticons are used with fewer than 3 words?

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:05:36 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/24/2011 15:05

This is just to do with allocating points to comments across the whole site in a way that isn't open to abuse, so that these can be counted on your stats. I think the new system achieves that quite fairly (which was the original objective).

This is not to do with policing comments on charts, as there are lots of ways to do that already (you can add people to your ignore list, report inappropriate comments, or disable member feedback entirely).

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:19:57 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/23/2011 20:19

Stop policing comments on charts. Alternatively, let the chart maker be the only person to flag comments by others; let others flag comments by the maker. Because some level of flagging is reached doesn't mean the comment shouldn't be credited. Do you really want to go to a 1-100 Bayesian rating scale on comments?

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:45:25 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/23/2011 19:45

I think the problem with the thumb icons is that they insinuate something different to what was intended. The point of the thumb up/down functionality, when it was first added to the site, was to enable a user to filter out comments below a certain threshold of helpfulness/usefulness.

However, people aren't using the icons in the way that was intended, probably because the thumb icon is associated with 'approval', so when people thumb something that is their endorsement of that person's opinion rather than their rating of the comment.

That's why my earlier post suggested replacing the thumb icons with something more appropriate, so that the meaning becomes clearer.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

19loveless91 — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:29:00 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 09/23/2011 19:29

albummaster wrote:

The type of comment that I am seeing a lot of are three or four words long and don't add anything to the conversation. These comments are not spam as such, but they are not very useful either. That was the reason for using the helpfulness data to determine whether a comment is useful or not.

I accept some people don't use the helpfulness buttons in the way that was intended. Maybe those icons need to be changed from thumbs to something else.

But there are also many three or four words long comments that get thumbs up for saying something that adds nothing to the conversation but is in accordance to what most people think

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:02:24 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/23/2011 15:02

Ever hear of gangs? What does two down thumbs tell you? Is a five word comment worse than a one click thumb? You seem to champion 10 votes for albums.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:59:07 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/23/2011 14:59

🤔

well, it's still being tested and tweaked, so it might need to be changed again before going live if it's not quite right yet.

I think some way needs to be found of discouraging spam-like comments. I don't think anybody would want those to proliferate too much, and I quite like the idea of this being moderated by the community in some way.

Maybe, I'll try lowering the threshold to -2, and see what that looks like (then it discounts the possibility of one person maliciously voting down someone else's comments).

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

RFNAPLES — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:47:58 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 09/23/2011 14:47

You can change the icons but the votes haven't reached critical mass to be statistically accurate. Currently they are meaningless. They tend to be a popularity vote or a flame. Why should a commenter be ranked down because they are able to give succinct comments instead of diatribes? Originally I thought the thumbs were supposed to be a method of flagging inappropriate comments. If you continue your newly adopted counting I am afraid it will lead to more gamming and more abuse.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

albummaster — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:32:28 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/23/2011 14:32

The type of comment that I am seeing a lot of are three or four words long and don't add anything to the conversation. These comments are not spam as such, but they are not very useful either. That was the reason for using the helpfulness data to determine whether a comment is useful or not.

I accept some people don't use the helpfulness buttons in the way that was intended. Maybe those icons need to be changed from thumbs to something else.

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

boboland1203 — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:05:35 GMT

Author: boboland1203

Posted: 09/23/2011 14:05

Hmm 🤔 ... Maybe there could be a third choice, a spam button. Perhaps needing several votes to take away the points gained from the comment. That way a comment can still be agreed or disagreed with. I don't know, just a idea.

I'm not sure any of it is a good idea. I try to maintain a certain level of quality on my post/comments, but should a short/easy comment be penalized? All of this is complicated 🤡

Re: Ideas for new member rank scheme

19loveless91 — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:12:02 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 09/23/2011 13:12

RFNAPLES wrote:

Often I notice that comments receive thumbs not because the comment was poor and needed flagging but because the thumber agreed or disagreed with the comments. In other words, they are not necessarily based upon quality but agreement. Why should numbers be deleted because somebody disagrees or likewise increased if someone agrees? Are we trying to have everybody goose step?

^^He's right you know...
So I don't think it's a good idea to only count the "well rated" comments. I mean if you look around the site, a negative comment can often be more constructive and better than a positive one, but if it's controversial, it won't ever get thumbs up.