Best Ever Albums

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

badfaith — Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:45:22 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/06/2009 23:45

It's also difficult to look at an album objectively if it's one you personally love... While we each have an album that we think is the best ever, yet the rest of the world thinks it is poo, or worse still, ignores altogether, other albums you'd rather eat your own ears than listen to, are generally regarded as works of utter genius.

Like you with Radiohead, myself with Coldplay, sometimes you just stand back scratching your head thinking- "I just don't understand why people love this!"... But while I feel this way about the greater (and later) half of Michael Jackson's career, I can acknowledge that he has had a significant cultural impact, and see where his albums broke new ground etc.

But then that leaves us with the possibility that the measure of a classic album is popular opinion, and mass appreciation, and that unless an album meets that mark, it has no value whatsoever, and that's a world I think none of us want to live in.
Maybe the term "classic album" then is meaningless, and depends only on who you talk to about whichever album?

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

Detroit Rock Citizen — Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:56:44 GMT

Author: Detroit Rock Citizen

Posted: 10/06/2009 13:56

badfaith wrote:

perhaps then it has something to do with when other bands emerge who claim that a particular album has influenced their own work... and a new genre is born from it, or a variation on one?

Or that you can clearly define music before that album, and everything after it... London Calling, Sgt Pepper, Never Mind the Bollocks, and so-on can claim such a thing. In which case, My suggestion of In Rainbows may be incorrect, despite how much people may like it, it has not had a chance yet to spur others to create anything in that mold, (if it will at all)

I may be Radiohead's biggest detractor on this board but that isn't why i don't think of In Rainbows as an instant classic. I think you have the right idea as far as a dividing line. It is why Bollocks can claim to be an "instant classic" yet the better(IMHO) Clash debut album can't. The same with Sgt Pepper and the infinitely better Rubber Soul. It may be why Thriller would get my vote for that distinction even though I believe that Prince's whole early 80's output rips it to shreds.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

badfaith — Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:04:22 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/06/2009 13:04

perhaps then it has something to do with when other bands emerge who claim that a particular album has influenced their own work... and a new genre is born from it, or a variation on one?

Or that you can clearly define music before that album, and everything after it... London Calling, Sgt Pepper, Never Mind the Bollocks, and so-on can claim such a thing. In which case, My suggestion of In Rainbows may be incorrect, despite how much people may like it, it has not had a chance yet to spur others to create anything in that mold, (if it will at all)

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

maxperenchio — Tue, 6 Oct 2009 01:26:25 GMT

Author: maxperenchio

Posted: 10/06/2009 05:26

I've always seen "classic" as an inherently socio-historical word, something that reflects the feelings of "general critical opinion" as stupid as it may be. I think that 10 years is average for an album to really be placed into such a pantheon.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

joannajewsom — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 15:30:59 GMT

Author: joannajewsom

Posted: 10/05/2009 19:30

Charicature wrote:

joannajewsom wrote:

Speaking of "classic" in the historical sense, based on its importance to the artform, there is no time frame. It can take 1 month or 20 years. Free Jazz, Highway 61 Revisited, Sgt. Pepper's, Ramones, Nevermind, and other genre-epitomizing works, we'll call them, had an instant impact, sealing their classic status. This is like asking how long do I have to date someone before we are in love. It's case specific. Putting any number on it is arbitrary.

Maybe arbitrary, but it's hard to call an album that's been out for a year "classic".

If an album is still reaching an audience and making an impact on them after two generations have passed, and still has a widespread name recognition in those future times, it should definitely be called "classic". That puts it at 20-30 years.

Basically the key indicator is the album's ability to continue attracting an audience beyond those who were exposed to it at or near its release, and to continue to attract an audience well beyond any specific generational appeal.

Two generations or 20-30 years still seems arbitrary. How are you defining "classic"? I fear we may have a difference of how we see the concept. For me, it's about importance to the artform, not appeal, popularity, or entertainment value. The Ramones debut, for example, had an instant impact on the US and UK punk scenes, inspiring the Clash and the Sex Pistols, and played a significant role in spearheading one the most important musical movements of the last century. Any appeal to contemporary audiences or lack of entertainment value doesn't take away from its historical significance, which is what I think determines whether something is a classic or not.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

RFNAPLES — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 15:13:50 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 10/05/2009 19:13

Yes it might take 20 years to determine if an album is truely a classic. Some of the classics might become antiques after 25 years!

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

Charicature — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 15:06:23 GMT

Author: Charicature

Posted: 10/05/2009 19:06

joannajewsom wrote:

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

joannajewsom — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 14:54:50 GMT

Author: joannajewsom

Posted: 10/05/2009 18:54

Speaking of "classic" in the historical sense, based on its importance to the artform, there is no time frame. It can take 1 month or 20 years. Free Jazz, Highway 61 Revisited, Sgt. Pepper's, Ramones, Nevermind, and other genre-epitomizing works, we'll call them, had an instant impact, sealing their classic status. This is like asking how long do I have to date someone before we are in love. It's case specific. Putting any number on it is arbitrary.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

RFNAPLES — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 12:10:14 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 10/05/2009 16:10

There are instant hits that with the passage of time may become classics. Personally I think 10 years is a good milestone.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

Detroit Rock Citizen — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:33:46 GMT

Author: Detroit Rock Citizen

Posted: 10/05/2009 14:33

i do believe in an instant classic but IMHO In Rainbows is not it. Albums that I believe we're instant classics are Nirvana's Nevermind and The Clash's London Calling. However you can look at it this way, any album can be an instant classic no matter how old it is as long as you believe it is the first time you've heard it.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

badfaith — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:17:17 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/05/2009 13:17

I think that judging by people's charts on this site (aside from my own personal taste), a good example of the instant classic would be In Rainbows, which has only been out for a little while relative to other best evers, and is a street ahead compared with other albums from the same period. And it seems to occupy a growing place in people's affections.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

Richie Hunt — Mon, 5 Oct 2009 04:29:48 GMT

Author: Richie Hunt

Posted: 10/05/2009 08:29

I dont have an opinion on this, i dont think i care enough about the topic.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

videoheadcleaner — Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:11:14 GMT

Author: videoheadcleaner

Posted: 10/05/2009 01:11

I think Mr Shankly summed it up pretty well. An album has to be great before it can be classic. But the timeframe that it happens in is the subjective factor. Some people may listen to an album and call it a classic straight away. Others may take time.

At the ripe age of 24 as I am, I haven't had much opportunity to revist an album I have heard 20 years later (10 maybe). The main one for me is The Cure's Disintegration. Even now when I listen to it, I can see how The Cure has influenced bands like Interpol and Bloc Party. Disintegration is the magnum opus for Robert Smith. Songs flow into each other and it is hard for me not to listen to just one track on the album. It seperated the Cure of the early 80s to the Cure of today. Dark, progressive in some respects and beautiful.

And for more recent classics, I see Muse's Absolution and Radiohead's OK Computer as the benchmark of great albums. Radiohead has had many successful albums but OK Computer is their maturity shinning through. Muse can be compared to Radiohead, but Absolution removes those ideas. Muse are all for anthemic sounds, ready to blow a stadium apart. Absolution seems to tell the story of a world falling apart; of socities crumbling and your rights being destroyed. This was the catalyst for Muse's later releases and a key album in the 2000s.

Also, in a personal reflection, Something For Kate's Echolalia is a classic for me. I gave the album a full listen recently which is something I haven't done in a while. Each song had an underlying theme that connected to others. Many people I know don't regard Something For Kate as a great Aussie band but to me, the band is a favourite of mine and Echolalia is an Australian classic album.

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

ffudnebbuh — Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:56:47 GMT

Author: ffudnebbuh

Posted: 10/04/2009 18:56

I will have to check those albums out...VU and Nico was an instant classic for me...but Revolver wasn't ( and the White album was)for reason even though I grew up with the Beatles( I was 11 when Revolver came out), but as time went on, the more I loved Revolver as a total album, an overall listening experience and now it is my favorite Beatles album. Of course, there is also your age when you first hear music and how our personalities evolve over time, so much of our musical experience is encoded in our memory which is attached to what else is going on in our lives...are we going through a great period where everything seems positive and meaningful..?

Re: how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

Mr. Shankly — Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:41:28 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 10/04/2009 18:41

Wow, you asked the $6,000,000,000 question!

Here goes:

I guess it depends on how the word "classic" is defined. To me, it first has to be great before it can be "classic," so I guess this is where history and musical/ cultural trends/,movements play a part. For an album to be great, one has to be able to play it multiple times (over 10, but preferably 100's of times) and enjoy it every time and/or find something new to appreciate about it. As for achieving classic status, these are the main factors: How innovative was the album? How influential? Did it change the musical landscape at the time? Did it change it years later (as in the case of the VU)? Does it never grow stale or dated? Does it have a timeless quality? Does it sound utterly unique to that artist's ouvre, or is it highly derivative and something a better band could have done better? If it's the latter, it's not a classic. On the other hand, does it draw from "classic" bands/artists/ideas and put a new spin on those influences that breaks ground and opens up new landscapes?

I've only heard one or two albums in the last five years that I think is an almost instant classic: Boxer by The National. Listen to it five times and you'll see what I mean. It was one of those albums that after listening to it, I felt compelled to listen to it again and again and again. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot by Wilco probably is a classic as well. There are a number of other albums that came out this decade that come close, but are still in the "time will tell" category for me.

how much time must pass for an album be considered classic

ffudnebbuh — Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:15:12 GMT

Author: ffudnebbuh

Posted: 10/04/2009 15:15

Are there instant classics? How much time has to pass before an album can be called a classic...5 seconds, 5 minutes, 5 years? Are there any albums that you liked immediately but 20 years later, you didn't? What are your instant classics and what albums did you not like when you first heard it but you liked it more and more as time went by?