Best Ever Albums

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Jasonconfused — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 12:58:36 GMT

Author: Jasonconfused

Posted: 04/30/2014 16:58

Joni.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

MasterWhitey — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:41:40 GMT

Author: MasterWhitey

Posted: 04/30/2014 00:41

Well, "Illmatic" could easily be considered the best album of it's genre while "Blue" is just another classic in it's genre's cannon.

I voted Nas

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:38:34 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/30/2014 00:38

dividesbyzero wrote:

But I probably don't even really know what I'm talking about. Whatever. Here, enjoy some shitty folk pop

LOL! Best possible ending to one of the most insightful pieces i've read on this site. Thanks. I nearly spurted out my morning cup of joe all over myself.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

meccalecca — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:26:08 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 04/29/2014 21:26

Puncture Repair wrote:

Agreed, I see now that both artists deserve to win.

Good. Some of these matchups are just unfortunate. Fahey vs Coltrane for instance. and I had Cale lose to Eno in round one. and Cohen went up against Waits.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:16:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/29/2014 21:16

meccalecca wrote:

Eloquently stated.

Agreed, I see now that both artists deserve to win.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:54:17 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/29/2014 20:54

Both pretty good artists, but I don't listen to them much anymore (and I don't have any plans to listen to them with more consistency in the near future). I'm not sure about anyone else, but I much prefer Joni's folk music far more than here jazz infused stuff. Court and Spark got me to really stop caring about her music (and after that it got worse :(). Blue is genius though!

I voted Nas.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

meccalecca — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:23:23 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 04/29/2014 19:23

dividesbyzero wrote:

But I probably don't even really know what I'm talking about.

Eloquently stated.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:20:28 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/29/2014 19:20

meccalecca wrote:

Nah man. Nas was certainly a major influential force in hip hop, but I think an argument can easily be made that Joni's been just as influential if not more so. How many women do you think started playing music because of her? And she did far more than sweet folk music. At the height of her career, she took a huge gamble and fused jazz into her sound. There's a reason Mingus was a fan.

And then there's this. Joni's early use of sampling circa 1975. This is pretty much what sold me on Joni a few years back.

Link

Ah beat me to it. Sampling The Drummers Of Burundi and experimenting with African rhythms and a Moog synth on a jazz-folk album in 1975; obviously the workings of a shitty folk pop singer. To dismiss Joni's massive influence both immediate and longstanding, on everyone from Joanna Newsom to St. Vincent to Madonna (and on more than just female singer/songwriters; even Prince has cited The Hissing of Summer Lawns as a personal favorite) is sheer ignorance (or at least, is indicative of someone who stopped listening at Court and Spark). Her lyricism (throughout the course of her career) has evolved from her early writings more in a vein of traditional folk songwriting to emotional expression more in line with the writings of Jonathan Keates than practically any of her folk contemporaries. With Blue she took confessional songwriting to new levels of earnest expression than transcended a mere expression of personal heartbreak into something at once universal and deeply personal. Harmonically, she began to build complexity exponentially (beginning arguably with For the Roses where she utilized multitracking to layer her voice into intricate vocal harmonies, and first starting toying with jazz.) As a lyricist she proved herself to be just as much of a storyteller as a purveyor abstract and stream-of-consciousness writing, and yes, as a master of (among many other things) folk-pop (though jazz would later be far more of an influence on her stylistically than pop ever was). As a guitarist, her use of innumerable non-standard tunings (matched maybe by Nick Drake) and her unique and picking style and use of percussive guitar slaps again sets her apart from any of her contemporaries; given her aforementioned massive influence, lyrical prowess, and experimentation with electronics, jazz (see collaborations with Jaco Pasotrius, Charles Mingus, and her entire 75-79 output), and myriad harmonic complexities, her innate talent as a guitarist is often overlooked, but is arguably just as integral to her individual sound as any of the abovementioned elements. Of course Nas' musical and cultural influence is undeniable, and his talent as a musician and lyricist not just within hip-hop but within any genre designation is frankly awe-inspiring, but Mitchell's refining of the art of folk music lyricism and guitar stylism, and subsequent reshaping of the boundaries of what constitutes folk music (really post Summer Lawns you can hardly even classify her as a "folk" musician anymore) characterizes her body of work as being at least as influential in her own right to generations of (predominately, but by no means limited to) female singer-songwriters, and to any number of jazz-crossover musicians (including her collaborators, namely the aforementioned Jaco Pastorius). As for characterizing an entire body of work, granted Mitchell has been around for far longer, but she does win in both consistency and diversity. But none of that actually matters; I'm just voting Mitchell because of her being a personal favorite, notwithstanding Nas being undeniably brilliant in my eyes as well. But I probably don't even really know what I'm talking about. Whatever. Here, enjoy some shitty folk pop

Link

Link

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

drakonium — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:07:35 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 04/29/2014 17:07

meccalecca wrote:

Yes. It has. The 70s were apparently very lame.

*checks the number of 70s albums on his chart, sees 31, deletes account*

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

meccalecca — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:54:52 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 04/29/2014 16:54

drakonium wrote:

Like, has it become so uncool to like 70s' music?

Yes. It has. The 70s were apparently very lame.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

drakonium — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:33:52 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 04/29/2014 16:33

Yeah, came here to say what Mecca said. The simple fact that Mitchell was a woman who was writing everyhting by herself, etc, ranks her among the most influential pop musicians of her time I think. There not even a reliable way to measure influence, but saying Nas is infinitely more important to music than Mitchell is silly IMO, just as much as saying her music is shitty folk pop. Like, has it become so uncool to like 70s' music? I'm kidding, eh, I'm not saying you said what you said because of the coolness factor. It's just that these statements are a bit extreme and were possibly written under the influence of a blind (and with which I totally agree) love for Nas.

About him losing so early, well, I'm not sure in what world losing to Joni Mitchell would be called "criminal". It's just a matter of brackets, etc, he could have lost in the first round had he been against Nick Drake.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

meccalecca — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:50:35 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 04/29/2014 15:50

WindowAbove wrote:

Joni Mitchell is a shitty folk pop singer.

For someone with Joanna Newsom's Ys in your top 10, it's kind of ridiculous to call Joni Mitchell a shitty folk pop singer. Without Joni, it's hard to imagine Joanna.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

WindowAbove — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:43:50 GMT

Author: WindowAbove

Posted: 04/29/2014 15:43

Joni Mitchell is a shitty folk pop singer. Nasir Jones is one of the most important rappers in history ad Illmatic is #2 on my chart. Easy choice.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

meccalecca — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:54:29 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 04/29/2014 13:54

Puncture Repair wrote:

Nas goes so much further than just 'Illmatic', he helped shape musical history and American culture - Joni Mitchell has just released some pleasant contemporary folk songs.

I think it's criminal that we're seeing the end of Nas at this stage of the competition.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:01:37 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/29/2014 12:01

Dingerbell wrote:

So you're suggesting that instead of voting for the artist we prefer, we should vote for the artist who was the most influential?

People can vote however they want. I don't feel like preference and influence are mutually exclusive, neither importance or enjoyment. I enjoy an album a lot more when I know it is an accomplishment, as it can often feel as though you are a part of its impact, which certainly adds to my appreciation.

On the other side, I may enjoy and listen to Bon Iver more than Miles Davis, but he should whole-heartedly be considered the greater artist because of his innovation and influence. It's understandable that people can vote on different aspects (in some cases it will be preference vs preference, or impact vs impact), but in this case I feel like Nas' influence is a more powerful factor in labelling him as the 'best' than how enjoyable Mitchell's music is.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Dingerbell — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 06:48:14 GMT

Author: Dingerbell

Posted: 04/29/2014 10:48

Puncture Repair wrote:

Nas goes so much further than just 'Illmatic', he helped shape musical history and American culture - Joni Mitchell has just released some pleasant contemporary folk songs.

So you're suggesting that instead of voting for the artist we prefer, we should vote for the artist who was the most influential?

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

SquishypuffDave — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 06:12:12 GMT

Author: SquishypuffDave

Posted: 04/29/2014 10:12

Joni Mitchell is great. Not crazy about anything I've heard from Nas. I never got into Illmatic, and popular consensus tells me it's his best. I'll abstain though.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 05:27:22 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/29/2014 09:27

Nas goes so much further than just 'Illmatic', he helped shape musical history and American culture - Joni Mitchell has just released some pleasant contemporary folk songs.

I think it's criminal that we're seeing the end of Nas at this stage of the competition.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

junodog4 — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:59:28 GMT

Author: junodog4

Posted: 04/29/2014 01:59

Dingerbell wrote:

Three brilliant albums for Joni compared to one for Nas is always going to win, however good Illmatic is.

...and she's a local girl. Can't believe she's from small town Alberta.

Re: BSAT Round #2: Nas vs. Joni Mitchell

revolver94 — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:18:36 GMT

Author: revolver94

Posted: 04/28/2014 21:18

I like my fav Joni record better than Illmatic, so... clearly Joni