Best Ever Albums

Re: Intellect In Music

Necharsian — Thu, 8 May 2014 18:06:07 GMT

Author: Necharsian

Posted: 05/08/2014 22:06

And here I thought I hated the word pretentious.

Re: Intellect In Music

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 8 May 2014 16:43:49 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/08/2014 20:43

Gowienczyk wrote:

Except self-indulgence and masturbatory isn't that.

No, I was saying the example drako gave is literally the definition of pretentious

Re: Intellect In Music

mickilennial — Thu, 8 May 2014 12:03:36 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 05/08/2014 16:03

RockyRaccoon wrote:

Yea, that's literally the definition of pretentious.

"Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed"

Except self-indulgence and masturbatory isn't that.

Re: Intellect In Music

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 8 May 2014 10:58:40 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/08/2014 14:58

drakonium wrote:

A mediocre guitarist trying to boast his skills for a hour-long solo is pretentious

For a great example of this, see:

Link

Re: Intellect In Music

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 8 May 2014 10:56:09 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 05/08/2014 14:56

Gowienczyk wrote:

Quote:

A mediocre guitarist trying to boast his skills for a hour-long solo is pretentious

I'd call that self-indulgent or masturbatory.

Yea, that's literally the definition of pretentious.

"Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed"

Re: Intellect In Music

Anonymous — Thu, 8 May 2014 08:53:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/08/2014 12:53

Gowienczyk wrote:

Quote:

A mediocre guitarist trying to boast his skills for a hour-long solo is pretentious

I'd call that self-indulgent or masturbatory.

it's a literal example of pretention

Re: Intellect In Music

mickilennial — Thu, 8 May 2014 07:32:59 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 05/08/2014 11:32

Quote:

A mediocre guitarist trying to boast his skills for a hour-long solo is pretentious

I'd call that self-indulgent or masturbatory.

Re: Intellect In Music

drakonium — Wed, 7 May 2014 23:01:10 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 05/08/2014 03:01

#addingmytwocents, the word "pretentious" does not necessarily imply intelligence. I mean, being pretentious is silly, but it doesn't always mean "thinking we are more intelligent than we really are". A mediocre guitarist trying to boast his skills for a hour-long solo is pretentious, but that doesn't tell anything about his intelligence. I think these two things should be separated.

Just trying to defend the use of pretentious, because I do like to use it once in a while. So I disagree with Gowi's definition : it does not insult the intelligence of the artist (or at least, not necessarily), but in most cases, his talent. Which is fine, right? Like, saying a rapper's flow is shit or some guy's songwriting is awful is something we often do. It just means that in our opinion, the artist is trying to show off something in a way or another, but that whatever they are trying to show, it's not as good as they think it is.

Re: Intellect In Music

benpaco — Wed, 7 May 2014 20:13:54 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 05/08/2014 00:13

Gowienczyk wrote:

A good criticism does not insult the artist or his body of work.

Then there is the whole point that pretentiousness as a sound shouldn't be a thing ever. But I don't know, I obviously have a very emotional stance on the word in general.

I think, in my opinion at least, pretentious referring to a person is insulting and unproductive, but I understand describing a work or a full breadth of work as pretentious, as sometimes that's the case, even from people I don't think are pretentious. If that makes any sense.

Re: Intellect In Music

manurock — Wed, 7 May 2014 17:41:14 GMT

Author: manurock

Posted: 05/07/2014 21:41

Puncture Repair wrote:

But we're all wired differently, and I think it's great that what I might consider 'pretentious', derogatory or not, can still be enjoyed by millions that aren't me.

Totally agree 😄

I also think that Elbow makes complex music. They may have simple chord progressions but a band who makes 4-6 minute songs, many with different structure and rythms and instruments which include trumpet or violin may seem complex, maybe even pretentious? 😈 Those last words were just to pick on you, I also think like Happymeal, that we should move on from the disscussion of that adjective and disscuss something new; for example it would be nice for you to specify on what you said on your post (Happymeal) and see your opinion.

Re: Intellect In Music

meccalecca — Wed, 7 May 2014 17:37:49 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 05/07/2014 21:37

Puncture Repair wrote:

That might actually be why I didn't like their latest release.

I don't really love the new one either.

Re: Intellect In Music

Anonymous — Wed, 7 May 2014 17:21:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/07/2014 21:21

meccalecca wrote:

You took your name from an elbow song. Of course complex music gets into your heart. It may just be things you don't perceive as complex. Elbow is creating some of the most complex rock music you'll hear. It's just not created to sound complex

Hm, I've always thought of Elbow as fairly simple pop. 'The Bones of You' riff is only two chords, Mirrorball's riff is just three repeated notes and 'Lippy Kids' rides on a repeated D note. But also the point you make: it's not created to sound complex - helps a great deal; Guy Garvey's brings a real dose of 'down-to-earth' with his lyrics and delivery. Where they might be complex (The Birds is a complex song I suppose), the complexity isn't the appeal.

That might actually be why I didn't like their latest release.

an_outlaw wrote:

You're denying Puncture Repair his identity of being a non lover of the complex musics! 😲 You can't do that!

You learn a lot more about yourself when someone questions your identity and you try to find the answers.

Re: Intellect In Music

bongritsu — Wed, 7 May 2014 16:02:23 GMT

Author: bongritsu

Posted: 05/07/2014 20:02

I really like both sides of the spectrum when it come to music. I really like challenging music dominated by "intelligent" or at least "high brow" listeners like noise, experimental, avant grade ect... But I also really love "meat head" music like southern hip hop songs that read like asset reports and power violence and stuff...

I have always been a "extremes" kind of guy

But at the ""end"" of the """"day"""" I don't "think" it """""matters""""*

Quote unquote

""

Re: Intellect In Music

meccalecca — Wed, 7 May 2014 15:06:42 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 05/07/2014 19:06

an_outlaw wrote:

You're denying Puncture Repair his identity of being a non lover of the complex musics! 😲 You can't do that!

Outlaw, are you trying to deny my identity as a voice of logic and reason?

Re: Intellect In Music

Anonymous — Wed, 7 May 2014 15:01:10 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/07/2014 19:01

Describing music can be difficult, but I tend to think I've come to terms with why I listen to the music I do and what makes it so good. What makes bad music the way it sounds to me is also fairly easy for me to comprehend, but I could never use the word pretentious. I don't get how it has any meaning regarding art. Someone attempts to do something or say something outside of their range of intelligence and they're hated for that? Perhaps they do show pride in the ignorance they might uphold, but at least they attempted to do something they might not have the necessary skills to achieve. Even if something is a failure in result of not being intelligent or skilled enough, failure can show you new ways to succeed. Using that logic, it's really difficult for pretension to come to me when looking at music. However, I feel pretension may have lost that meaning to a lot of people a while ago. When I hear pretension and certain albums in a sentence, it feels more similar to saying that x album bored me because it was overly caught up in attempting to achieve something that I didn't feel necessary. Perhaps that's more accurate? Bland is also another difficult word for me to use mainly because I listen to a lot of acclaimed music that sounds bland in comparison to its genre as a whole. A lot of the words used around here for criticisms of certain music have really become boring to hear. It'd be nice to hear something different said about music more often.

P.S. That doesn't mean it'd be incorrect to speak about music the way you want to and have been, these are just a few personal qualms I have when listening and reading what people have to say about certain music.

Re: Intellect In Music

Anonymous — Wed, 7 May 2014 14:13:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/07/2014 18:13

meccalecca wrote:

You're denying Puncture Repair his identity of being a non lover of the complex musics! 😲 You can't do that!

Re: Intellect In Music

meccalecca — Wed, 7 May 2014 14:11:06 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 05/07/2014 18:11

Puncture Repair wrote:

Complex music doesn't get into my heart.

Re: Intellect In Music

Anonymous — Wed, 7 May 2014 13:53:55 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/07/2014 17:53

manurock wrote:

Complex music can also get into your heart. Most part of Dark Side of the Moon, for example, hit an emotional chord on me; apart from the music (ie the piano in the great gig in the sky), the lyrics (mental illness or the non-stopping time) have lots of symbolism. I agree though with what others said, that simple music like a Britney Spears album can too (I am not fan of Spears but I do get moved by Hey Soul Sister for example), but I wouldn't justify what you said of most of prog by being pretentious by implying that when you go further in music it doesn't transfer emotions.

Most of the "quick" jazz music doesn't make me feel anything but I understand that it can do to other people and I don't see the genre pretentious, same could be said by other people with classical music or opera, which are other examples of complex music. People enjoy genres more than others like some prefer meat or fish or pasta, or blonde or red or dark hair. I wouldn't classify any genre despectively.

Complex music doesn't get into my heart. One thing that stuck with me from a Michael Gira interview was how he described how powerful and changeable one chord can be, all depending on how you play it, it can be happy, sad, angry or calm. Complexity, ultimately, can be written down on a piece of paper, whereas music is a performance, and to me that's where the power comes from.

But we're all wired differently, and I think it's great that what I might consider 'pretentious', derogatory or not, can still be enjoyed by millions that aren't me.

Re: Intellect In Music

Anonymous — Wed, 7 May 2014 13:22:46 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/07/2014 17:22

Quote:

But I don't know, I obviously have a very emotional stance on the word in general.

If your roommates are calling you pretentious, I can see why you would. That's pretty mean.

Gowienczyk wrote:

A good criticism does not insult the artist or his body of work.

Then there is the whole point that pretentiousness as a sound shouldn't be a thing ever.

When I use it, I'm only talking about the piece of work, not the artist or the literal "sound". Whether or not it constitutes good criticism I don't know, but it is the way I feel about some music.

Re: Intellect In Music

manurock — Wed, 7 May 2014 13:17:15 GMT

Author: manurock

Posted: 05/07/2014 17:17

Puncture Repair wrote:

But that's likely because I don't think any musicians that create popular, contemporary rock can be called 'geniuses'. Albums like 'Dark Side of the Moon' aren't at all 'fake', but sometimes I feel like they're reaching too far to sound intelligent to hit an emotional chord.