Best Ever Albums

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

albummaster — Tue, 15 Jul 2014 07:43:15 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 07/15/2014 11:43

Goodsir wrote:

Okay, I have a bit of a problem. I've been listening to all of My Bloody Valentine's EPs from 1988-1991 and rating them individually. It has come to my attention that the EP Tremolo is flagged for deletion for being less than 20 minutes long. I noticed that other EPs are allowed to be added to the site without being flagged, but the ones less than 20 minutes are flagged. I don't really see why this is, and would like to know. Thanks.

Apologies for not getting back sooner, I've been away from the site for a couple of days. Albums on BEA need to be at least 20 minutes long OR contain at least five tracks (using the original release as the guide). Anything else does not qualify as an album for the purposes of BEA.

Romanelli wrote:

Man, this is a topic that has been repeatedly beaten to death here. BEA is not here to be the storage facility for everything ever released, it's a place to make charts and have your say as to what's the best ever ALBUMS (BEA). 4 songs and 20 minutes was the line that AM drew as what I believe was a compromise to this argument before...now we want the line moved again? Nobody is saying that an EP with 4 songs at 15 minutes doesn't have value. But I think at less than 4 & 20, you're moving from is it an album to is it a single? If we move the line from 4 & 20, what's next? Do we then have to start adding singles and individual tracks and video only releases and films and TV shows and give them a special designation because they have value? Isn't that a function that places like RYM already take care of? You can get great recommendations for EP's from other members (or other sites) without having to have them on your charts, and without having to move the line as to what constitutes an album on BEA.

I agree with Romanelli, The whole purpose of BEA is that it is an album site, and this is why most of us are here. It is also the entire reason that the site was started in the first place, and it is a point of difference from other sites (and will remain so).

The criteria here are slightly more lenient than the official definition of an album (25 minutes) to allow a bit of flexibility for items on the borderline to appear.

The criteria have to be set somewhere (& they were openly discussed in consultation with some other members on these forums a few years back). If the rules were relaxed any more, BEA would cease to become an album site and get lost amongst the multitude of other sites that do not specialise in anything in particular & the people that signed up for an album site, would no longer have one.

I do understand some people's frustration but all releases are judged by the same criteria to ensure equal treatment for everybody & the rules are about as clear as they can be (or so I thought).

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

videoheadcleaner — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 19:06:31 GMT

Author: videoheadcleaner

Posted: 07/14/2014 23:06

I have had issues with the EP ruling over time and decided to just play by the rules from AM.

Several EPs I have added have not met the criteria but I regard them as highly as some albums (The Cure's Lost Wishes, JG Thirlwell's Hydroze Plus and The Desert Sessions' Vol II: Status: Ships Commander Butchered). Recently another Thirlwell release I added (Stinkfist) was flagged for being short of 20 minutes and only 3 tracks. However the versions of the EP have changed in time and track number over the years. I eventually found the original release which clocked over 20 minutes (just).

This is just my own account of the rule. It is frustrating at times but this standard is used for Billboard charts as well as other national album charts around the world. We are not BEE or BEM (music); it's BEA.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Romanelli — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 15:11:43 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 07/14/2014 19:11

benpaco wrote:

:-k

Also, how do we count things that are sort of less than 20 minutes but not really? The new Kitty is 18 minutes long, but on some versions features another 2 songs, making it well over the 20 minutes. The Paper Sons album on my chart is just under 20 minutes on its own, but there's a hidden track that puts it over. It's always been a tough line, I remember having seen this come up before, and I think it's important to have either clarification or a dialogue at the least about it all.

I could be wrong about 25 minutes...I'll double check.

I see the Paper Sons album has five tracks, which makes it okay. The Kitty EP, is at 4 tracks and 18 minutes...if that is the original version of the EP, then it would not meet the criteria. If the original release is 5 tracks and 21 minutes, then it's okay. Just like with full albums...bonus tracks should not be included. The original version is the one that counts.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

benpaco — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:54:03 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 07/14/2014 18:54

Romanelli wrote:

I believe it's actually more than 4 tracks or more than 25 minutes.

Quote:

6. Please do not include singles, EPs (of less than 20 minutes), or non-official releases in your album chart.

🤔

Also, how do we count things that are sort of less than 20 minutes but not really? The new Kitty is 18 minutes long, but on some versions features another 2 songs, making it well over the 20 minutes. The Paper Sons album on my chart is just under 20 minutes on its own, but there's a hidden track that puts it over. It's always been a tough line, I remember having seen this come up before, and I think it's important to have either clarification or a dialogue at the least about it all.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:25:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2014 16:25

Romanelli wrote:

:roll:

I'm not sure what prompted that, but for someone who complains about an unfriendly atmosphere on the forums, that's coming off to me as awfully condescending... especially since I was basically just agreeing with what you already said.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Romanelli — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 11:07:26 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 07/14/2014 15:07

🙄

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:43:38 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2014 14:43

Romanelli wrote:

I believe it's actually more than 4 tracks or more than 25 minutes.

Yeah, otherwise we'd have to delete this:

Thick As A Brick by Jethro Tull

and this:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Tim Hardin 2 by Tim Hardin

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Romanelli — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:40:23 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 07/14/2014 14:40

I believe it's actually more than 4 tracks or more than 25 minutes.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

creator — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:38:39 GMT

Author: creator

Posted: 07/14/2014 14:38

I like 4 songs or 20 minutes.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Skinny — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 09:10:23 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 07/14/2014 13:10

What about albums that are shorter than twenty minutes? And do the EPs in question have to have both four songs (at least) and exceed twenty minutes, or is it acceptable for them to adhere to just one of those stipulations?

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Romanelli — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 09:02:11 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 07/14/2014 13:02

Man, this is a topic that has been repeatedly beaten to death here. BEA is not here to be the storage facility for everything ever released, it's a place to make charts and have your say as to what's the best ever ALBUMS (BEA). 4 songs and 20 minutes was the line that AM drew as what I believe was a compromise to this argument before...now we want the line moved again? Nobody is saying that an EP with 4 songs at 15 minutes doesn't have value. But I think at less than 4 & 20, you're moving from is it an album to is it a single? If we move the line from 4 & 20, what's next? Do we then have to start adding singles and individual tracks and video only releases and films and TV shows and give them a special designation because they have value? Isn't that a function that places like RYM already take care of? You can get great recommendations for EP's from other members (or other sites) without having to have them on your charts, and without having to move the line as to what constitutes an album on BEA.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 00:32:27 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/14/2014 04:32

Guys, there has to be a line as to what we include as EPs. I'm aware that the argument is that perhaps that line should be changed, but AM typically has good reason to not change something when the issue repeatedly comes up.

However, I'm not sure if other have suggested this, but I would recommend that a separate ranking be made for EPs and EP charts be made and etc. I'm aware this is Best ever albums, but EPs are albums, just not in length so perhaps having a different section for them entirely might prove useful. Also, as a database for the best albums ever, it would prove useful to others searching said database that there's a place for best mini albums ever as some people might enjoy that. This is just an idea of course.

EDIT:

DanielNunes93 wrote:

This also happened to me. I think the best solution is to create a specific category for EPs, like happen with compilation albums.

This guy beat me to it. Great minds think alike.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

SuedeSwede — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 00:00:42 GMT

Author: SuedeSwede

Posted: 07/14/2014 04:00

I certainly agree with the four-song limit but not the time limit... maybe something like it has to be 4 songs or 15 minutes long...

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

benpaco — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 16:44:00 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 07/13/2014 20:44

RockyRaccoon wrote:

I think an EP serves a purpose and should stay on the site if it contains unique music that is not released on a later album (e.g. "Sometimes The Blues Is Just A Passing Bird" by The Tallest Man On Earth). However, EPs that just contain music that is later released on a full album seem to not really serve a purpose for this site (e.g. Imagine Dragons' EP "Continued Silence").

Yeah, this exactly. I mean, The Open Door EP by DCFC, Death EP by White Lies, and Upside Out by OK Go all have value, certainly, but I'd say only The Open Door deserves to be on here. There's tons of others that do too, obviously, such as Cherry Tree and Fine Line, but there are definitely a lot that don't add anything. Then again, nor do Comps.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 15:39:16 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/13/2014 19:39

Patman360 wrote:

I'm not sure about EPs, like some EPs could simply be a single plus one other song and be like 4 minutes long, is there really that much need for them? Especially considering a lot of songs on an EP will be released on an album eventually anyway. Like there certainly is value in them and I listen to plenty of them, I've probably even got some in my charts if they're over 20 minutes, I just don't feel we need to add more and more of them to the site, especially when they could be only a few minutes long...

I can definitely see what you're saying and you do have a point but I think there are plenty of short stand alone EP's to warrant a designation. Maybe an EP chart would be going a tad far (after all, we don't exactly have a chart for compilations) but a designated category could be simply implemented.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

RockyRaccoon — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 15:39:09 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 07/13/2014 19:39

Patman360 wrote:

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Patman360 — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 15:25:57 GMT

Author: Patman360

Posted: 07/13/2014 19:25

I'm not sure about EPs, like some EPs could simply be a single plus one other song and be like 4 minutes long, is there really that much need for them? Especially considering a lot of songs on an EP will be released on an album eventually anyway. Like there certainly is value in them and I listen to plenty of them, I've probably even got some in my charts if they're over 20 minutes, I just don't feel we need to add more and more of them to the site, especially when they could be only a few minutes long...

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

benpaco — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 15:09:54 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 07/13/2014 19:09

As it stands

Quote:

6. Please do not include singles, EPs (of less than 20 minutes), or non-official releases in your album chart.

but I agree with y'all that EPs have value as well and should be on here somehow and etc.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 14:42:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/13/2014 18:42

creator wrote:

I would also enjoy seeing EPs that run under 20 minutes in the database. I think it would be a great source of recommendations if we had an overall EP chart.

That's exactly what I was thinking! I think the implementation of an individual EP category and an EP overall chart would really benefit the site.

Re: EPs Less Than 20 Minutes Being Flagged For Deletion?

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 14:41:57 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/13/2014 18:41

DanielNunes93 wrote:

This also happened to me. I think the best solution is to create a specific category for EPs, like happen with compilation albums.

This would a great solution. A category for albums, eps, compilations and (possibly) soundtracks.