Best Ever Albums

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

RockyRaccoon — Sat, 6 Sep 2014 23:16:13 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/07/2014 03:16

Eddie Hazel wins

18-3

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

eyezayzay — Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:20:38 GMT

Author: eyezayzay

Posted: 09/06/2014 01:20

Just listened to Maggot Brain. He's one of the best, jfc. O_O

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

Anonymous — Thu, 4 Sep 2014 02:25:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/04/2014 06:25

Gowienczyk wrote:

Are you purposely being antagonistic

Not sure if serious or if you can't actually tell when you come across as antagonistic. You should probably read back how you wrote what you wrote just to see if you can patronize people less often, 'chief'.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

RockyRaccoon — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 22:34:16 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/04/2014 02:34

I think you can take a band into account when evaluating a guitarist, but only a little bit. Sometimes you have to ignore the band to a point.

Do I like Extreme? Not particularly. They had one decent album that limped its way into my top-100 Hair metal chart, which is about as narrow as a chart can get. Do I like Nuno Bettencourt? Absolutely. As a guitarist myself, the things that that man can do with a guitar are just amazing (especially in that second video). He doesn't just mindlessly shred, he's not C.C. DeVille, there's purpose in it, there's skill and musicianship in it.

But taking the band into account too much discounts the guitarist as a musician. Is it Reb Beach's fault that he was in Winger? Yea. But does that mean he's any less of a guitarist? Not at all. Is White Lion a great band? No, they made a good album and that's about it. Is Vito Bratta one of the best guitarists of the 80s? In my opinion, without a doubt.

I'm of the opinion that you have to look at these guys in a vacuum, because if you don't, you're approaching this with an unnecessary bias (at least, I see it as unnecessary). You're looking at Vito Bratta and then going "Fuck, that When The Children Cry song is annoying as shit, White Lion is terrible, no way man" or you're looking at Nuno and judging him because Gary Cherone sucks mouse tits. This is the best ever guitarist tournament, not best ever band member, or best ever songwriter.

That being said, it's not up to me how people vote, everyone approaches these things with their own points of view that may be equally as valid as mine, and certainly this tournament isn't the definitive best ever guitarist tournament, so it's not worth raising a whole brouhaha over. Ultimately this is for fun, and I think it has been fun so far and I believe it will continue to be.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:39:11 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:39

Quote:

Gus G is great. That was just a bad draw for him. Ranaldo is really really high on my list.

I'm really not knowledgeable enough to know names or anything. I nearly nominated Trey Spruance of Mr Bungle/Secret Chiefs 3. His origins are a mix of jazz and metal. But he's a bit weirder than that.

I don't think I ever got the impression of your feelings on power metal (of any sort), though that can be said for a lot of users sans Neil and Tom. That you are familiar (and enjoy) Gus G gives me a sort of positive perspective.

Spruance is definitely weirder than his jazz and metal origins as he's take cues from avant-garde and late 20th century experimental music for the basis of some of the weird material he composes which invokes a lot of folks imagination including those he's influenced who I imagine range from those in Sleepytime Gorilla Museum to Unexpect to Sigh. I really like his work but I don't listen to Secret Chiefs very often (nor Mr. Bungle).

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

meccalecca — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:30:05 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:30

Gowienczyk wrote:

I don't think I caught your impression of Gus G when he was up recently against Ranaldo either.

I agree with you on technical ability. There are plenty technical guitarists who just don't work with me as a person.[/quote]

Gus G is great. That was just a bad draw for him. Ranaldo is really really high on my list.

Gowienczyk wrote:

Are there any sort of neoclassical/jazz metal guitarists you would have voted for that are in or out of the tournament?

I'm really not knowledgeable enough to know names or anything. I nearly nominated Trey Spruance of Mr Bungle/Secret Chiefs 3. His origins are a mix of jazz and metal. But he's a bit weirder than that.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:27:13 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:27

sp4cetiger wrote:

Excuse me?

I'll take it to PM, so you'll have a response in time. Otherwise dropping this part of the conversation.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

Anonymous — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:25:23 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:25

Gowienczyk wrote:

Are you purposely being antagonistic or are you just being a cranky old sod?

Excuse me?

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:15:26 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:15

Quote:

I saw what you said, I just disagree with you. If a guitarist is in a band that's 3/4 shitty, I'm still never going to vote for them because they're contributing to shitty music. That doesn't mean it's the only thing I consider.

Also, it's not for you to decide how others should vote... "chief".

I didn't disagree with that sentiment? and I'm not holding any supposed tyrannical or authoritarian view of how people should vote. I am just opening a discussion that we should be mindful of the guitarists. Are you purposely being antagonistic or are you just being a cranky old sod? Either option is neither endearing or entertaining. Shit the biggest supporting point to my central point was " If it doesn't work for the individual that's fine" which equates to "People will like what sounds they like and I agree with that".

meccalecca wrote:

I've got no problem with them. Depends on the guitar player just like any genre. Metal guitarists are often the most instantly impressive, and there's more than a few I'd likely vote for depending on the matchup.

I'm also one of the people who voted against Jad Fair.

I'm also just from the school of thought that technical ability only takes you so far. It works the same way in any creative field. There's tons of painters with exceptional technical ability with nothing original to say, and that's huge. You have to be able to apply your talents to something worthwhile.

Thank you, Mecca. Are there any sort of neoclassical/jazz metal guitarists you would have voted for that are in or out of the tournament? I don't think I caught your impression of Gus G when he was up recently against Ranaldo either.

I agree with you on technical ability. There are plenty technical guitarists who just don't work with me as a person.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

meccalecca — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:11:54 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:11

Gowienczyk wrote:

How do you feel about metal guitarists with background in neoclassical and jazz, since we are on the subject of shredders (most of said shredders come from that vein) anyway?

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

Anonymous — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:10:28 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:10

Gowienczyk wrote:

I don't discredit personal taste, but we should remember the purpose of the guitarist in their projects and what they executed. If it doesn't work for the individual that's fine,

Thanks for reading, chief.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:03:02 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:03

meccalecca wrote:

Oh totally. I agree. I don't want someone to win just because their band is popular either.

How do you feel about metal guitarists with background in neoclassical and jazz, since we are on the subject of shredders (most of said shredders come from that vein) anyway? Like just trying to promote some actual discussion here for once instead of being brief before leaving the thread (as I've seen fairly often since this started, heck I'm a little guilty of it too). The Jad Fair discussion was one of my favorite standouts so far.

sp4cetiger wrote:

I think part of being a great guitarist is making great music, so I don't see myself voting for someone who only makes music I don't like.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

Anonymous — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:01:42 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:01

I think part of being a great guitarist is making great music, so I don't see myself voting for someone who only makes music I don't like.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

meccalecca — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:00:27 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/04/2014 01:00

Gowienczyk wrote:

Just thought I'd add a point on "we should remember this is about the guitarists and not their comrades".

Oh totally. I agree. I don't want someone to win just because their band is popular either.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:58:10 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 00:58

meccalecca wrote:

I pay attention to both. But I think it's impossible to ignore what it means if a good guitarist is in a shitty band. There's just many different types of skill. There's loads of guitarists out there with crazy chops that can unload ridiculous solos but can't write a song to save their life.

I think that would fall under the good "good effort/talent/skill, but bad execution". I'm not saying we should ignore guitarists who were excellent songwriters in exchange for acknowledging guitarists for their technical skills only (otherwise we'd have Steve Vai or Yngwie Malmsteen winning something like this). I don't discredit personal taste, but we should remember the purpose of the guitarist in their projects and what they executed. If it doesn't work for the individual that's fine, but I imagine a lot of people are basing it on the 3/4th's of a band that aren't being discussed here.

I'm not mad Gus G or whatever lost, I expected them too; just was glad some people looked into their work.

Just thought I'd add a point on "we should remember this is about the guitarists and not their comrades".

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

meccalecca — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:54:23 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/04/2014 00:54

Gowienczyk wrote:

Just want to make a reminder that we should pay attention more to the guitarist and what they are doing than the rest of the band since that is the nature of this tourney if that makes any sense.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:50:36 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 00:50

meccalecca wrote:

Agreed with this. Nuno had some technical skills, but for the most part it just translated over to shitty music, while someone who couldn't really play like Jad Fair actually seemed to have more skill at making enjoyable music with his guitar playing. It doesn't make sense, but it's the way it is

Just want to make a reminder that we should pay attention more to the guitarist and what they are doing than the rest of the band since that is the nature of this tourney if that makes any sense.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

meccalecca — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:46:51 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/04/2014 00:46

Romanelli wrote:

The music on the Extreme albums was written by Bettancourt. His playing is the only non rhythm section instrument on it, so for me, how goes Extreme is how goes Bettancourt. More specifically, I don't like Bettancourt's playing. I don't like his sound, and I don't like the way he carried his band. In terms of Bettancourt as a guitarist, he was good. He was never amazing.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

Romanelli — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:21:00 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 09/04/2014 00:21

Gowienczyk wrote:

But this isn't a "best ever band" tournament. This is about the guitarists in said outfits who encompass talents, skills, and etc. that don't specifically pertain to voting for "which band I like more".

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Eddie Hazel vs. Nuno Bettencou

mickilennial — Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:14:01 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/04/2014 00:14

Romanelli wrote:

I'd pretty much vote for anyone over Nuno. Extreme was just so...awful.