Best Ever Albums

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

RockyRaccoon — Sun, 9 Nov 2014 18:32:25 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 11/09/2014 23:32

Kevin Shields wins

26-15

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

alelsupreme — Sat, 8 Nov 2014 08:17:29 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 11/08/2014 13:17

19loveless91 wrote:

Wow you're still alive?

His dedication to singing the praise of a fairly beloved band on an internet forum where no one likes him would be admirable if it wasn't so dumb.

Actually no it wouldn't, it's just dumb.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

19loveless91 — Sat, 8 Nov 2014 05:36:29 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 11/08/2014 10:36

Wow you're still alive?

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

craola — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:41:50 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 11/07/2014 23:41

I can't even remember who I voted. Flipped a coin.
"I'm really sorry that you don't like the opinions of others."
"Beyond absurd, because a bunch of kids on BEA say so."

How does that work?

I really don't need to add to this, but I can't help myself, so I'll keep it small.

Let's put Page, Hendrix, Cream, Clapton, Beck, and Allman on a pedestal and declare them gods. That should be an easy pill to swallow, right? Odd coincidence how they're all classic rock types from the late sixties and seventies, I suppose. Nothing dismissive about that.

After all, this is the opinion of "the entire music world" (or some nonsense like that), which means that these are unbiased facts - not subjective opinions.

Living in the past never did anyone any good.
I will say this though: Annie Clark is a better guitarist than a dead Jimi Hendrix.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 17:33:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 22:33

Both are pretty even to me. In the end, I just voted Greenwood for the heck of it.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

denmarkman — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 15:45:26 GMT

Author: denmarkman

Posted: 11/07/2014 20:45

Romanelli wrote:

Beyond absurd, because a bunch of kids on BEA say so.

Um, I'm sorry, but what is particularly NOT absurd about suggesting that 5 arbitrarily chosen guitarists are near universally acknowledged as the five best of all time by the entire music world? It would be quite a feat if everyone could agree on ONE guitarist as the all time best, let alone 5. Your comment is incredibly closed-minded and dismissive of all differing opinions. It's completely absurd. I usually like you, Romanelli, but you've kind of lost me here.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

alelsupreme — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 13:13:26 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 11/07/2014 18:13

Romanelli wrote:

Beyond absurd, because a bunch of kids on BEA say so.

Funnily enough, an opinion poll on BEA... is decided by people's opinions ON BEA! What a crazy world we live in!!!

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

meccalecca — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:34:41 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/07/2014 15:34

I think it's simple. Most people are drawn to the underdogs. No one needs to see Page, Hendrix, Clapton, etc get recognition as a guitar player. They've already gotten quite enough. It's just like how no one except a Yankees fan wants to see them win. It's boring.

For as incredible as Hendrix is, there's a few equally good guitar players who never got nearly as much recognition, so Jimi will lose votes there. It's all subjective anyway. These guys are all pretty much the best at what they do, so then it just comes down to stylistic preference. Can Fahey rip a solo like Duane Allman? Probably not. But could Allman perfectly conjure the spirits of folk music like Fahey? probably not.

If and when my two favorite guitarists, Fripp and Fahey meet up. How do I choose? One is arguably the most versatile electric guitarist the world has seen. The other generally did the same thing for a lifetime, but he did it so well that every record is a perfect work of art.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:19:26 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 12:19

sp4cetiger wrote:

The discrepancy here isn't due to BEA's bias or Pitchfork's bias, it's due to the ridiculous biases that have existed in the mainstream music press. The five guys that Romanelli listed are all rock musicians from one particular era who played a type of music that appealed to a large enough demographic that putting them at the top of all-time lists sold magazines. To say that they're "widely acknowledged" as the 5 best guitarists of all time, by musicians or otherwise, is beyond absurd. I voted Shields here because he almost single-handedly stretched the limits of what people thought they could do with a guitar. IMO, Greenwood's entire career pales in comparison to what Shields accomplished on Loveless alone.

None of that is a knock on the guys Romanelli listed -- they're incredible, for sure (Hendrix and Page are probably in my top 10). But there are a lot of really fucking good guitarists in this tournament. You just won't hear most of them on classic rock radio.

�'�

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Skinny — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 02:10:12 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/07/2014 07:10

Happymeal wrote:

Gonna respond to your last portion because I find the post to be incorrect. What he stated was solely venting frustration, nothing more. It's not pertinent what he labels said venting and, while I don't necessarily agree with Roman's opinion, I do also find it odd that some of the guitarists were chosen over others (especially Santana losing. He's possibly the most unique out of the "every old man and his dog loves this guy" type hysteria), but you're just misconstruing the meaning of Roman's statement. Not everything is supposed to mean exactly what it translate to (however, I think this is idiotic. I don't see the point of organized communication if people don't strictly adhere to popular meaning).

You wield synonyms like a man trying to fix his doorbell with a mallet.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 01:42:47 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 06:42

benpaco wrote:

"eh, kids'll be kids"

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

benpaco — Fri, 7 Nov 2014 01:18:32 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 11/07/2014 06:18

Romanelli wrote:

This tournament is way too backwards. And considering that Page, Beck, Clapton, Hendrix and Allman...pretty much what is considered all over the place as the top 5 of all time, are ALL gone with three rounds to go...sorry, but it's tough to take this very seriously.

Woah woah woah, slow down here man. Hendrix? We wanna talk Hendrix here? Hendrix lost in a close matchup to someone who many of us picked to win the tournament, Django Reinhardt. Overwhelmingly the response was that that matchup sucked and could easily have been the final. And you know what? I've said in the Skype and I believe here that my final four would be Hendrix, Berry, Django, and to be honest I can't remember the fourth, but I'm pretty sure he was eliminated. And does it suck that Hendrix and Berry lost? Yeah, they're two of my favorite guitarists ever. One of my favorite up and coming guitarists lost in an absolute ROUTE early on, I even voted against him. It's been a hard tournament, but in the end, it's democracy. That's the way this is set up. I'd happily read blog posts by you if you wanna post about your love for those 5 as your top 5 guitarists of all time, but this democratic process showed that the majority opinion sways one way. Why is that hard to take seriously?

Romanelli wrote:

I'm saying that I disagree with THE MASSES. Geez, people. I'm not insulting everyone. I am disagreeing with a majority. I am allowed to do that, am I not?

Why the f*** do I have to explain in detail every single goddamn post I make on this forum???????

You're totally allowed to disagree with the majority, I just think it's odd to not take a majority seriously on a poll. In the end, if a poll is done, the results represent a majority of the community which is involved enough to vote. To me, "right" or "wrong" (though these issues are entirely opinion based), the results are serious because they're the results.

Romanelli wrote:

a bunch of kids on BEA say so.

This is the part that actually really got to me. I wasn't even gonna respond, like I said I agree that I think Hendrix should still be in and I'm fine if you wanna disagree with everyone, so I was just gonna pass on through and go about my day.

But really? A bunch of kids? We're gonna suddenly make this "the grownups know what they're talking about, bunch of kids come in here trying to tell us what's right"? Really?

Part of why I love this site is I've never ever felt that before. I've had childish problems - a lot of you remember that. But Jack and HTTS and Sp4cetiger and others sat through them with me and treated me with respect, treated me like I was an equal, and got me through them. And eventually, as I've had more serious problems, problems that are adult and will stay with me for my entire life, I've been able to reach out to Jack and Tom and Stone and swedenmark and others to talk to them, and I've been shown the same respect.

Do I joke about how old Sp4cetiger is? Is the sky blue? Is defago a dirty peruvian? Of course! Of course! And have people frankly poked fun at me before for being young? Yeah. Because I am. There's a lot of us who are, like Jack and Skinny and others have said before (sometimes bluntly), we got stuff to learn. But that doesn't mean we've been frowned down upon for our age. That's really unique, the fact that here, I can be treated with the respect I don't get in real life, with parents who don't trust me and search my backpack for drugs [despite the fact I've never smoked or drank], or teachers who dumb down facts to try and keep kids from getting upset. This is reality. I'm respected and I get a right kick in the pants when I need it.

But I think I speak for a lot of the youths here when I say that this is just weird. I have nothing against you. I got a little confused on one thread speaking with you, but overall, we've had fine relations and I appreciate all of the behind the scenes work you do around here. Seriously, it means a ton to me and the whole site. So why you feel the need to come at "a bunch of kids" because we disagree over what qualifies for musical merit or what makes a good guitarist is bizarre. Especially when you take into account that this was posted in response to an adult supporting an older guitarist.

Basically, I don't understand where you're coming from here. If you really don't like the community because we're immature or w/e, then just say it. If you were trying to joke, I apologize, but it didn't come off like that. If you feel our opinions are less valid because we're young for some reason, I don't understand why that is, or why you couldn't just write it off as "eh, kids'll be kids" and go about your day.

Hope it was a good lunch, my meat had gone off a bit on my sandwich today.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 23:04:01 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 04:04

RockyRaccoon wrote:

.
However I would say that those guys are widely acknowledged to be some of the best guitarists of all time. Whether it's top 5, top 20, top 100, whatever, these guys are generally acknowledged to be some of the best guitarists ever, I don't think too many musicians or listeners would sit there and say "Nah, that guy's not actually any good, mediocre guitarist at best". This, of course, is referencing their ability, rather than a person's opinion of them (i.e. whether they like their music or not).

I think subjectivity has to come into play in any meaningful judgement of a guitarist... I'm sure many thousands of people have worked their butts off to become really good at doing something with a guitar, but it has to be something that a lot of people like to listen to.

But yeah, like I said, I think his top 5 are great, I just don't think they're widely acknowledged as the five absolute best. I do think it's fair to say that they're widely acknowledged to belong in the conversation for best of all time.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 22:45:52 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 11/07/2014 03:45

sp4cetiger wrote:

That's a fair point. I wasn't necessarily saying that Pitchfork has anything to do with it, I'm just drawing an analogy (albeit, perhaps a poor one) from BEA's taste to a popular music publication, i.e. BEA is more like Pitchfork (a taste more for newer music/less "mainstream" music) rather than Rolling Stone (a taste more for traditional rock/classic rock/white guys with guitars).

Anyways, yea, I think that the bias of the popular music press over time has something to do with it. These guys are fantastic guitarists, yes, but one could argue that they were fantastic guitarists in the right place at the right time. Were Page or Beck or Allman coming around today, they might not be getting as much press, because the 70s were the days of the rock band, the days of big-time lead guitarists, therefore, these guys got big coverage, but today is not the day of big-time lead guitarists, that's passed.

However I would say that those guys are widely acknowledged to be some of the best guitarists of all time. Whether it's top 5, top 20, top 100, whatever, these guys are generally acknowledged to be some of the best guitarists ever, I don't think too many musicians or listeners would sit there and say "Nah, that guy's not actually any good, mediocre guitarist at best". This, of course, is referencing their ability, rather than a person's opinion of them (i.e. whether they like their music or not).

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 22:18:06 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 03:18

Romanelli wrote:

](*,)

Beyond absurd, because a bunch of kids on BEA say so.

I'm going to lunch. I might come back.

Have a nice meal!

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Romanelli — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:49:47 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 11/07/2014 02:49

sp4cetiger wrote:

The discrepancy here isn't due to BEA's bias or Pitchfork's bias, it's due to the ridiculous biases that have existed in the mainstream music press. The five guys that Romanelli listed are all rock musicians from one particular era who played a type of music that appealed to large enough demographic that putting them at the top of all-time lists sold magazines. To say that they're "widely acknowledged" as the 5 best guitarists of all time, by musicians or otherwise, is beyond absurd. I voted Shields here because he almost single-handedly stretched the limits of what people thought they could do with a guitar. IMO, Greenwood's entire career pales in comparison to what Shields accomplished on Loveless alone.

None of that is a knock on the guys Romanelli listed -- they're incredible, for sure (Hendrix and Page are probably in my top 10). But there are a lot of really fucking good guitarists in this tournament. You just won't hear most of them on classic rock radio.

🧱

Beyond absurd, because a bunch of kids on BEA say so.

I'm going to lunch. I might come back.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:38:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 02:38

RockyRaccoon wrote:

All that being said, if you had asked me at the beginning of the tournament "How far do the big-name guitarists get in this tournament" I would've told you that I expected them to be voted out almost as quickly as possible, there was no way I was expecting someone like Hendrix, Page or Allman to win this tournament, because, for better or worse, that's what BEA does. This isn't aimed at any particular people, but rather the community as a whole, for whatever reason, tends to avoid what one might consider "conventional" or maybe even "cliched" answers. BEA is wat more Pitchfork than it is Rolling Stone. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion, I'm not saying it's either, I'm just saying it is.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:12:06 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 11/07/2014 02:12

Romanelli wrote:

No hate for Greenwood, or Radiohead. But I feel that Allman is a far superior player to Greenwood. And most definitely Greenwood is far superior to Shields.

This tournament is way too backwards. And considering that Page, Beck, Clapton, Hendrix and Allman...pretty much what is considered all over the place as the top 5 of all time, are ALL gone with three rounds to go...sorry, but it's tough to take this very seriously.

I agree to a point, I mean, the fact that Page, Hendrix, Beck, Allman, those guys, are all out is a little crazy to me, though some of it is matchups. I mean, I love Jeff Beck, but he lost to John McLaughlin, and while I would take Beck over McLaughlin, it's really close and that's a totally understandable loss for Beck. The fact that Allman lost to Greenwood, I think, is nuts, but it is what it is. I think that's what makes tournaments like these interesting. a predictable tournament is rarely a good one. No one wants all #1 seeds in the Final Four, we want to see mix to keep things interesting.

All that being said, if you had asked me at the beginning of the tournament "How far do the big-name guitarists get in this tournament" I would've told you that I expected them to be voted out almost as quickly as possible, there was no way I was expecting someone like Hendrix, Page or Allman to win this tournament, because, for better or worse, that's what BEA does. This isn't aimed at any particular people, but rather the community as a whole, for whatever reason, tends to avoid what one might consider "conventional" or maybe even "cliched" answers. BEA is wat more Pitchfork than it is Rolling Stone. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion, I'm not saying it's either, I'm just saying it is.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

mickilennial — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:50:21 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 11/07/2014 01:50

Silver wrote:

Now come now, Shields has a three album several ep career.

Lots of guest work too.

Re: [Closed] Best Ever Guitarist: Kevin Shields vs. Jonny G.

Anonymous — Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:30:35 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/07/2014 01:30

Now come now, Shields has a three album several ep career.