Best Ever Albums

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:32:42 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/26/2014 06:32

sp4cetiger wrote:

My experience was similar, though I'd flip it slightly -- I felt like I was the alien and I was trying to decipher the monolothic echoes of the 21st century zeitgeist. It's interesting how many of the albums on your chart seem to speak their own unique language. Is this something you look for in new music? For me, listening to new music is usually a means to an end, a quest for that "click". Would you say the same or is it more the actual process of deciphering that you crave?

Oh hey sorry for the slow reply, had to sit with this question for a bit. This isn't something I actively seek out from music, I suppose it just sort of happens where that's the stuff that tends to stick with me the most. But not just that, it's also that the thing that makes it special can *only* be represented by this one album. Although I suppose that the unique language thing is a big part of what drew me to all the early electronic stuff (Xenakis, Stockhausen, Riedl, Lejeune, Ruth White, Ivo Malec, etc). But I don't think I'd really call the process deciphering. Like when I listen to Bob Dylan, that's when I feel like an alien and like I have to decipher something. And not just cause he's all mumbly, just the whole "lyrical appreciation" angle coupled with how strongly the music has resonated with people, and I'm just like "WHAT ARE YOU?! IF ONLY YOU HAD PROBE-ABLE HOLES SO I COULD UNDERSTAND!". But with stuff like Wobbly, I just forget myself, get immersed, and I don't need to look outside or inside or anywhere except for the music, because the music sort of teaches you how to listen to it, like how the first level in Super Mario Bros. teaches you the mechanics of the game in how it's structured and forces specific moves. That's more like how I feel with stuff like Wobbly.

And while I do crave that experience and seek it out, I don't feel completely disconnected from enjoying regular song structure history. Like that new St. Vincent album, I really like the song Regret. That's just a really pleasant simple song and I was really psyched when I found it (I'm a late-comer so it was only like two months ago). And then the track after that rocks out super crazy kinda like Radiohead - Myxomatosis, and then the next one gets at sounding like Grandaddy at times and I'm just like "\m/ fuck yes" the whole way through. While there is a pleasure to learning St. Vincent's distinction in how she creates things, which I think is achieved brilliantly and she completely owns what she does, but my enjoyment of all that is buoyed by the ways in which it is familiar. And that's scratching a different itch. I probably undervalue it w/r/t to list, but it's a significant part in what drives me to find new music.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:40:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2014 14:40

The time demands from my new job have turned out to be larger than I expected, so I may take a little hiatus before doing the next study. I still have some questions here, though.

Definitely enjoying the chart. Certainly one of the most interesting picks is

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Wild Why by Wobbly

secretdad wrote:

Dude tapes a bunch of commercial hip-hop radio and chops it up into fragments and builds it all into a hyperactive alien language. If it ends up making sense to you, it can be a whole lot of fun.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:35:11 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/20/2014 06:35

dividesbyzero wrote:

Just wanted to drop by and say I've been enjoying this immensely so far. One of my favorite charts of all time and (although I've only noticed your forum presence fairly recently, forgive me if you've been posting all this time and I just haven't noticed), one of the coolest users. Wonderfully eclectic taste yet totally humble and down to earth, and he can put shit into words (e.g. this thread).

Ok carry on 😄 (keep up the good work sp4ce. these threads are marvelous)

Oh wow thanks! I've been tinkering on the chart for a lil bit now but only started posting around here recently, this seems like a good spot (these threads from sp4ce in particular caught my eye). And everyone's been so nice, the score on the chart seems ridiculously high to me. But I should note that I also think it's totally ok if someone wants to express a less-than-stellar opinion of the chart. Like someone had commented on it saying something about "where's the heart?" And while I partially disagree, in that the heart would be found in the more primal elements peppered throughout, I totally get where they're coming from and think it's totally valid. There's a certain open throated full body expressiveness in music that isn't as present here (except I guess in The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, but I'm mostly thinking vocally). And I guess when I hear that stuff, like in that whole wave of popular rock-based bands that were on the radio recently and maybe still are and sang in all caps (TONIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-AYE-AYE-IGHT, etc.), I hear that and just think "oh put a shirt on". But there's nothing wrong with that stuff, I have no doubt in it's capacity for euphoria, I think I just have a preference for music that keeps its distance a little bit though, like even in real life I don't really like hugs. There's definitely a particular flavor to the selection and anyone who thinks it's too bitter, I think it's totally fair to express that on the chart, numerically or in comment form. But I really do love all the nice words, some definite mood lifting stuff there.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:56:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/20/2014 04:56

Just wanted to drop by and say I've been enjoying this immensely so far. One of my favorite charts of all time and (although I've only noticed your forum presence fairly recently, forgive me if you've been posting all this time and I just haven't noticed), one of the coolest users. Wonderfully eclectic taste yet totally humble and down to earth, and he can put shit into words (e.g. this thread).

Ok carry on 😄 (keep up the good work sp4ce. these threads are marvelous)

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:20:44 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/18/2014 02:20

secretdad wrote:

And also the further things get away from "primal", there's kind of the greater chance of a thing being dorky.

🤣

Well put. Loving your chart, btw, will probably have more for you tomorrow.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:17:40 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/18/2014 02:17

Ok so as far as music with a primal quality being regressive/progressive etc, I feel like it's a way for music to really get at something new. For example, the Rashad Becker album in my top 10, that's some of the freshest sounding stuff I've heard lately. It's got this really strange approach to synthesis that goes past organic and gets into sounding downright biological. And it's weird as shit, and even all the people who reviewed it made it sound like there's no easy way into it. But they're wrong, because every track is guided by a steady, unchanging pulse. And I consider that to be a very primal thing, something so fundamental that it allows for the wilder turns to be easier to digest. And that's where I think the usage of this quality works for me, there's less of a weight of history to things and more opportunity for the fantastic newness of something to be appreciated. So yeah like with that Boredoms album, the steady pulse of the drum keeps one foot on the ground while the other foot does crazy awesome kicks, and is also on fire, because Boredoms are crazy awesome.

And also the further things get away from "primal", there's kind of the greater chance of a thing being nerdy. Like of course that's a gross oversimplification, but like the new Aphex Twin album. I love that to death, but it's totally nerdy (requiring an enthusiasm for a specific type of thing). And so it's a very different experience, it feels more like I had to learn from other albums how to appreciate it and really have that enthusiasm for an existing bit of history, whereas with the primal ones it feels like I could come into the world naked and screaming but still ready to love them. But of course it's probably a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:13:42 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/17/2014 17:13

Oooh that is a meaty question. Gonna have to mull that one over during work today and get back to you. The whole primal thing is probably another trend on this chart, the Animal Collective pick is probably their most primal album.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 11:15:09 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/17/2014 16:15

secretdad wrote:

One thing I should note with Can though, is that of course there's the level on how it relates to my tastes, but this whole chart making is about communicating to other people. So it serves an important role in being the most prominently placed album that people are more likely to have heard. I feel like it's important to keep a good balance of those sorts of albums, like familiar sign posts that allow a person to orient themselves around the other, potentially less familiar content on the chart. And so that was a consideration in the really small scale positioning, I don't think I used to have it in the top 3 but I felt that I needed a sign post in there.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I get the impression that there's a wide range of views on here about the extent to which charts should be designed for the sake of others. I suppose chart-making is no different from writing music in that sense.

There are a lot of things that Tago Mago says to me personally, but one thing that has always stood out is how primal it is. You'd think that a chart full of electronica would be anything but primal... still, I think it makes sense. Take your #7, for example:

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Super æ by Boredoms

Despite their high-tech setup, Boredoms still manage to draw from some of the most primitive aspects of our nature. Those throbbing tribal drumbeats are like a comforting (and energizing) anchor in a sea of electronica.

Do you see a distinct arrow of time with your favorite music? In other words, do you see it as regressive, progressive, or clearly a statement of its time? Perhaps all of the above?

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:40:32 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/17/2014 02:40

sp4cetiger wrote:

It's always interesting to hear what a music lover's "foundational" records are; that is, the ones that played the biggest role in establishing their present tastes. How much of this pick is sentimental? Do you still listen to it a lot? Can has a strong following on the forums, so I'm sure a lot of folks can relate to you here. Are you big on their entire discography or is this one a major stand-out?

Also, do you have any other albums that you consider foundational?

It's definitely a sentimental pick, but I still listen to it quite often. It's more that I don't know if I would put it so highly if it didn't come into my life when it did, when the whole way the album sets up one thing and then completely destroys it would have as much of an impact on my listening habits, if I would still put it up so high. But yeah if I still didn't absolutely love listening to it, it wouldn't be on this list.

This one is absolutely the major stand-out, sort of similar to the Manitoba/Caribou thing (there's probably a pretty big trend there, my Boredoms pick is the one where they're transitioning from goofy noise to sun worshiping cult and you get the best of both worlds). This album has that really special quality in it's structure that is missing from the other albums, which can be amazing but are still really coherent feeling to me. There's probably a degree of arbitrariness to it, a slightly different order of events in my life and I might have been talking about why Ege Bamyasi has the special quality that is missing from all the others. But the main source of flavoring for this whole chart thing is about where one lands on those sorts of things, so I just embrace where I'm at. But even still, I'm down to rock out to Soon Over Babaluma, it's still a really solid album even without Damo. Splash is a jam.

As far as other foundational albums go, of course Kid A. But actually a lot of these albums I was listening to when I was 16-18, like Wobbly - Wild Why, the Fenn O'Berg album, or something that didn't make the list, Kid606 - Down With The Scene. That album is just crazy distorted with a lot of gnarly digital sounds on it, I think that album getting to me early really helped make sure I was opened up for the weirder experimental electronic stuff when I started down that path.

One thing I should note with Can though, is that of course there's the level on how it relates to my tastes, but this whole chart making is about communicating to other people. So it serves an important role in being the most prominently placed album that people are more likely to have heard. I feel like it's important to keep a good balance of those sorts of albums, like familiar sign posts that allow a person to orient themselves around the other, potentially less familiar content on the chart. And so that was a consideration in the really small scale positioning, I don't think I used to have it in the top 3 but I felt that I needed a sign post in there.

And one thing I'd be curious about from people: do the notes work? I try to keep it a little light, but is there any of them that are written where you feel like you wanted more about what the music is doing?

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:05:58 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/17/2014 01:05

secretdad wrote:

Oh haha nah, I have fathered no children, I'm really irresponsible, that would end terribly. I usually take my usernames from song titles, like I'd use Stars of the Lid's Taphead a lot. But recently I've been going with Mr76ix's Secret Dad.

Okay, well I should warn you that I'm likely to continue picturing you as a thirty-something father-of-two. It's been over a year and I still picture Mercury as a 20-year-old woman.

Anyway, let's start with one that should be familiar to most of the folks here:

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Tago Mago by Can

secretdad wrote:

I remember downloading this one on Napster, and just jamming out to those first few songs, and then when the longer durations and weirder stuff started coming just absolutely hating it. But it just sort of hung around, I'd forget to stop the album more and more often, until I wanted to hear those other songs. So my evaluation of this one is very far from objective because it was really there when I was getting deep into music, and this helped push me outside my comfort zone, towards stuff that I really love now.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:25:43 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/17/2014 00:25

Yeah I dunno what it is, but I just never get that feeling of engagement with NWW, like I take everything in after the fact, don't get into that mode where every change feels significant, just like "oh yeah, that happened". I feel like I should make a list of "Intentional Omissions" for things that totally seem in my wheelhouse but that I didn't really like, but can still respect their position in music and am glad that there's people out there championing it. Because like I'm sure people are looking at my list being like "huh I would've thought the disintegration loops would be on there". I dunno, I need to give things more chances. But NWW definitely have a great list there.

If there's one unfairness in the world that I hope my list calls peoples attention to, it's the obscurity of Wobbly - Wild Why. An amazing plunderphonics album that is built entirely from samples of commercial hip hop radio, chopped up and reassembled into an alien musical language. It's incredible, and listening to the album while reading the lyrics sheet probably had a large part in warping my brain as a teenager. But unfortunately, around this time Pitchfork had hired this total dick Matt Wellins to do some reviews. I knew him from my time on Soulseek, there was an artists community there doing this thing called the one minute massacre, where someone does 2 minutes of music and then the next person picks up right from that, for this long continuous thing from all these different authors. So this Wellins guy comes on, and his thing is just playing the track that came before him while he talks shit over it. Which, yeah lol, but still really disrespectful. So anyway, I see this guy is reviewing the wobbly album, and he totally trashes it, gives it a 4 or something. And then he pulls the same shit with Casino Versus Japan - Whole Numbers Play The Basics. Fortunately Pitchfork came to their senses after that and were like "yeah we don't need a guy to shit on music that nobody cares about" and didn't run any more of his reviews. But still, that was the chance for people to learn how utterly brilliant this Wobbly album was, and it was ruined by this total asshole. So do your part in correcting history, and check out this album, it really is something special.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

bongritsu — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:32:10 GMT

Author: bongritsu

Posted: 11/16/2014 22:32

secretdad wrote:

Edit: Oh and re: how do I find stuff, another resource that I haven't fully explored is the Nurse With Wound list, and the old mutant sounds mp3 blog that had a lot of the harder to find things from there. Even though I haven't been especially smitten with NWW's stuff, I've definitely been led to some cool things from that. And also finding out about that back in the day probably fueled my taste for listmaking.

I have never been not disappointed with NWWs work. It feels like I should enjoy it but all of their work just ends up being underdeveloped and flat imo

Anyways you have pretty cool taste. I'll be sure to dive into some of this

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:29:17 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/16/2014 19:29

sp4cetiger wrote:

My first question has nothing to do with the chart, actually. That username... are you actually a dad or is that a music reference I'm not getting? :lol:

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Which is something I find deeply troubling and hilarious so I had to use it.

And yay phil! I quite enjoy your charts, getting some good datach'i reppin going, and some Brad Laner solo stuff if memory serves. You didn't include the Nettle album in that quote tho, you may want to check that one out.

Edit: Oh and re: how do I find stuff, another resource that I haven't fully explored is the Nurse With Wound list, and the old mutant sounds mp3 blog that had a lot of the harder to find things from there. Even though I haven't been especially smitten with NWW's stuff, I've definitely been led to some cool things from that. And also finding out about that back in the day probably fueled my taste for listmaking.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

philbutrin — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:24:50 GMT

Author: philbutrin

Posted: 11/16/2014 18:24

secretdad wrote:

21. Hrvatski - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyDvGBJ1v5I
81. Datach'i - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPRtvgtD3QQ
84. Pita - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_lnXaMflSA
85. Casino Versus Japan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG4wV9q3qkQ
99. Wagon Christ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXRCq7ubgRA
100. Glen Velez - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm0OBjc-_AM

an interesting list that gave me some strong musical flashbacks to albums i haven't thought about in a while (those items i've quoted above). and it turns out that you are the only BEA member who included Datach'i's Mmale and Ffemale on a chart, while i'm the only member who included We Are Always Well Thank You 😄

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 07:43:48 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/16/2014 12:43

My first question has nothing to do with the chart, actually. That username... are you actually a dad or is that a music reference I'm not getting? 🤣

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:34:16 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/16/2014 09:34

benpaco wrote:

Kind of love the selection of a lesser known chart. I'm gonna ask a sort of random one just because I appreciate how little of this chart I know. But how do you find all this? Huge mix of countries, genres, etc., what's the secret?

Hmm well a big factor for that is probably my affinity for experimental electronic music. A lot of the early stuff, the USA didn't really support it, and there's a lot of countries in Europe, and there was support all over the place there, so a whole bunch of cool stuff came out from a whole bunch of different countries. And then with the more modern stuff, I've been really into the output of Editions Mego (based in Austria) and PAN (based in Germany), and so a lot of the artists I hear from there are from that neck of the woods usually (although the USA is also very strong in that department now though with Keith Fullerton Whitman, Ben Vida, Raglani, Bee Mask, etc etc).

As far as hearing about stuff, it's all just stuff I've picked up over the years. I still check Pitchfork (Marc Masters is good about bringing attention to some of the weirder noisier things), but I find myself agreeing with Tiny Mix Tapes a lot more often (although I really feel like they undersold the new Arca album). And then for the weirder stuff, Brainwashed is something I don't check all the time anymore, but I did a little bit back in the day and they've tipped me off to some really great things. I've probably found out more from Keith Fullerton Whitman's store, Mimaroglu Music. He would always give amazingly detailed write ups on the noteworthy releases, and also has this bootleg reissue label that puts out rips of long out of print early electronic stuff. But then there's also the level of talking to people. I did most of my growing up in Alaska, so I kind of had to figure out how to get all of this done online. It all spooled out from Kid A from me, before that I was watching TRL and being like "aw man KoRn got robbed". But then I saw those crazy commercials with the bears that they did and bought OKC because Kid A wasn't out yet. From there I did whatever the equivalent to googling was at the time (altavistaing?) and saw some things where people were saying the new Radiohead sounded like Aphex Twin. And that sent me off looking into everything from Warp Records, and everything loosely affiliated with the label of IDM. I spent a lot of time in the soulseek chatrooms back in the day, because the way that started was on napster, the big IDM leaks of the time like Prefuse 73 - Uprock Studies + Vocal Narratives would be tagged with whatever the url to download soulseek was at the time. And so I'd dl those and be like "hey what's this about", and for a while it was all just one chatroom on the whole thing, all full of people brought there by their enjoyment of the stuff coming out on Warp Records. And so that was a really fun community, and I found out about a lot of music from those guys. But then there's also messageboards, I've been on a few and picked up quite a few things from people there, and turntable.fm (rip) or now plug.dj, I've found some good people on there, that's how I found out about Bruce Haack (he's Canadian and awesome). So it's been a mix of a laser focus on something I know I like trying to pick up everything around it to see if that's any good, and then mixing it up in some communities around those things I like and leaving myself open to exposure for things sitting outside of whatever path I'm taking, which then leads to new paths and a repetition of the process and more opportunities for weird discoveries.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

benpaco — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 03:11:23 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 11/16/2014 08:11

Kind of love the selection of a lesser known chart. I'm gonna ask a sort of random one just because I appreciate how little of this chart I know. But how do you find all this? Huge mix of countries, genres, etc., what's the secret?

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:39:14 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/16/2014 04:39

I really like the stuff after, I'd probably rank everything except Our Love above Stop Breaking My Heart, and Stop Breaking My Heart is a really solid IDM album. I wasn't really into Our Love, or the dancey side project thing. But After Hours off of Andorra? That's a total jam. And that album probably gets the worst rap. But what puts Up In Flames over the top is the weird tonal coloring all over the album. Like the other ones, I feel like with academics in music, there can be this thing where albums feel like a sort of study of an existing aesthetic, refined with a bit of idiosyncrasy but still feeling very much a part of history. But while Up In Flames has that connection to 60's psych pop rock type of stuff, there's something really alien in how everything sits in the mix, there's a connection to history but the final product just feels like this amazing singular object. And the tracks with Koushik's vocals really force it into a place where it makes sense, like it all feels so perfectly suited for the peculiarities of his voice, even more than his (still pretty great) solo work. So yeah I do actually like most of that other stuff but Up In Flames just gets on a whole other level for me. But like even the tour eps that came out for the later albums have stuff I really love. Medium Sized Working Dog is so good, going to listen to that now. Also what's really cool about those tour ep's is they start off with a short mix, and one of em introduced me to the Le Orme song that I guess the song that plays before the Oceans 11 credits samples and the real thing is so good that they actually play it twice in the song. Like the song itself is played twice within the song.

AND HOLY CRAP YOU GUYS. I just figured out that on the 2007 tour ep, the track Yo-Yo samples Pierre Henry - Levitation, off of one of his cortical art albums, where he had all this stuff strapped to his head and controlled synthesizers with his brain. Really cool stuff and really interesting to see it get sampled.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:19:23 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/16/2014 04:19

I'll start with a lowball question: how do you feel about Dan Snaith's music that's been released since he dropped the Manitoba moniker for Caribou? In my mind, the album on your chart is the high point of his career and I find the rest kind of disposable, but I'm interested in your thoughts, since it ranks among your favorites of all time.

Re: Chart study #4: secretdad

Tap — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:53:51 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/16/2014 03:53

Oh hey thanks! And yeah I see nothing wrong with those bands being favorites, basically everyone who's gotten success in music I feel like they've earned it. And I like songs and albums from those bands and plenty of others who are familiar to these lists. Like I'm a big fan of the podcast You Talkin U2 To Me and it's given me a greater appreciation for the band, like how Mysterious Ways (I think that's the one) is so good at capturing that sort of 90s electronic rock sound that you got from bands like.... what was it, Erasure? I dunno. The musical landscape is so huge and varied and amazing, but there's a couple pockets that I've really fallen head over heels for and this chart is basically my attempt at capturing some of it.