Best Ever Albums

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

WindowAbove — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:32:33 GMT

Author: WindowAbove

Posted: 11/19/2014 19:32

I don't really hear a major difference in sound quality, in the end it's still the same music and I get the same emotional response from it.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Tap — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:02:04 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 11/19/2014 18:02

Oh has anyone mentioned tidal yet? Its like spotify but lossless supposedly

http://tidalhifi.com/us

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

LittleM1971 — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:24:57 GMT

Author: LittleM1971

Posted: 11/19/2014 17:24

Good thread this one.

Earlier this year I decided to buy proper Hifi equipment, best thing I've ever done. For years I've bought systems because they have an IPod dock, Bluetooth or some other gimmick whilst totally neglecting the most important aspect which of course should always be the sound. It wasn't even that expensive as just bought 2nd hand. My amp was £45, CD Player £20 and picked up some B&W speakers for £50 (turntable cost a bit but that's optional). We're talking night and day here!!!

I'll keep my Spotify subscription as it's great for research but it's no way to listen to music as the quality is so poor, same goes for most downloads...you're just cheating yourself.

Of course the great thing about the streaming boom is the amount of CD's being handed in at charity shops, I've been picking up loads every week for next to nothing 😄

I'm having to reassess many albums I've listed in my chart. For instance Joe Jackson's 'I'm the Man' which I think I originally marked at 75 sounds brilliant on vinyl and because of that sound improvement I've listened to it loads. If I hadn't purchased the physical format I probably wouldn't have bothered listening to it again on Spotify. It's now an 85 and climbing!!!

Streaming of course has it's positives, most younger music lovers I speak to have a much wider taste and historic knowledge than I ever had at their age and can only presume this is down to the easy access of music nowadays.

I hope I don't sound like I'm telling people how they should listen to music, it's just that I've seen the light and urge people to at least try this tried and testing way of listening.

Busy trying to collect my top 100 on vinyl, 32 chalked of so far and the whole experience of going to record shops again has totally rejuvenated my love of music.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

meccalecca — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:59:58 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/19/2014 13:59

StreetSpirit wrote:

some day musicians won't even make albums anymore. I certainly hope that never happens, not in my lifetime anyway.

Not gonna happen anytime in the foreseeable future. Big labels may no longer see albums as the proper business plan, but musicians make music out of love and not business.

I remember reading an interview with Ian MacKaye once in which he talked about the artistic need to create. Take away all of the money and that need is still there.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

CA Dreamin — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 22:58:28 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 11/19/2014 03:58

Skinny wrote:

Having gone back through the thread, there was only one user whose comments I took issue with (at first glance I mistook multiple comments for multiple users). For the record, those comments are below. Nobody else seemed to suggest that there was a right or proper way to listen to music. So yeah, everybody can stop qualifying their opinions now. I wasn't talking about you.

I'm not saying there is one proper way to listen to music, but I am saying some ways are better than others. And streaming online is not one of the better ways. Of course I do it all the time, though. Somebody made a comment earlier on this thread that online streaming is a great way to locate your preferences and expand your horizons. Nobody can disagree with that. Personally, that's exactly what I do. About 70% of albums I listen to for the first time are via streaming. If I dislike it, I'll try it a couple more times to see if it grows on me. If I casually like it, I'll make a note to return to it later. And if I really like it, I'll actually buy it. But I'm not like most people. According to the article, it's hard to get people to listen to entire songs, let alone entire albums. And if somebody happens to get through a song, enjoys it, and wants to add it to their iTunes player or whatever they have, more likely than not they'll illegally download it. That is indeed an issue for album-lovers like us. It takes away incentive of the artists to try and make a decent album. Furthermore, the article explains how audio compression fatigues our ears, decreasing the chance of us engaging in the music we listen to. Now of course we album-lovers will engage in our music no matter what, and we'll continue to strive for that feeling of when an album 'clicks.' But what I meant by the dinosaur comment was my concern about the future...that some day musicians won't even make albums anymore. I certainly hope that never happens, not in my lifetime anyway.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

craola — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:20:38 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 11/18/2014 19:20

RockyRaccoon wrote:

You and me both. I'm someone who is always wanting to listen to an album I haven't heard before. Since I use an iPod for the vast majority of my music listening, I have to decide what stays and what gets deleted on the iPod (it's 160GB, so naturally not enough for absolutely everything). The way I determine it is this: is this album one that I'm going to come back to? Did I enjoy it enough on my first listen to come back to it later? If the answer is yes, that album stays on the iPod. There are some exceptions to this, e.g. if there was an album that I listened to that I know a lot of people loved and I wasn't crazy about it, I'll keep it on there to come back to it another day (Ys for example), because it's possible that I just didn't get it the first time and another listen might change that.

All that being said, I feel like sometimes I'm fooling myself. I say, "I will come back to this" yet all I listen to is music I've never heard before. It is very rare that I actually do come back to an album, because I'm always trying to expand myself, trying to listen to the new music that's come out or something like that. So am I actually coming back to that album? I like to think so. But who knows when that'll be, if ever.

Listening to music is constantly chasing a high. That feeling you get when you hear an amazing album for the first time, every new album I listen to I'm looking for that feeling, chasing that high again and again. It's honestly an addiction, though not necessarily a bad one.

I do pretty much the same, but I won't let myself delete an album until I have come back to it. That's a helpful little rule that keeps me in check.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's powe

craola — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:05:11 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 11/18/2014 19:05

meccalecca wrote:

Due to the changing environment, I believe style can often win out over substance. What do I mean by that? Well, I think everyone's familiar with the type of album that seems to get better and better with each listen. Those albums are often the most subtle and nuanced. In an environment in which we're always looking for something new, it's hard for that type of album to really reveal itself like it used to. Blunt, jarring, sonically innovative albums will often likely get the greater attention, because they reward more quickly.

The first time I heard Loveless as a kid, I hated it, but I had spent all of my allowance on it, so I forced myself to listen to it again and again until it finally clicked. Now it's one of my favorite records ever. Would I pursue an album with the same intensity today? I don't think I would.

I find myself battling with this a lot these days. Sometimes, the growers are obvious enough on the first listen that I'll go out and buy the album, but I know that I have got to be missing out on a lot of good stuff. I know I am because of all the albums I see on peoples' lists that I thought were pretty bland after one or three listens.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Skinny — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:56:46 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:56

RepoMan wrote:

Again, this is simply my approach which on some thought I realize works best for me as a music lover which I'm just relating to others.

Sorry, I realised what I said was exactly the sort of thing I hate, throwing criticism out there without naming who I was criticising, thus putting everybody on their toes and thinking that perhaps I was criticising them. And, when I said "quite a few users", I was wrong. Having gone back through the thread, there was only one user whose comments I took issue with (at first glance I mistook multiple comments for multiple users). For the record, those comments are below. Nobody else seemed to suggest that there was a right or proper way to listen to music.

StreetSpirit wrote:

Perhaps it doesn't matter, because there's nothing we album listeners can do. We're screwed. The article is pretty clear that the industry is moving away from us. The highest emotional response that comes from music is a full album in vinyl format. But now it's come to streaming individual songs over the internet at a fraction of the quality, which we only have a 50% chance of actually finishing. And if we like it, we can illegally download it.

I hate to say it, but I think the conclusion here is that in 10-20 years, we will all be dinosaurs. We listen to music at good quality; and we listen to the same artists for more than 10 consecutive minutes. Bravo.

StreetSpirit wrote:

So now we're saying the article is wrong - The best way to experience music isn't vinyl, it's live straight from the performers. I can buy that.

StreetSpirit wrote:

we're never more wholly focused or engaged in music we're listening to than when we're at a concert.

I suppose we can agree with the article that the best way to listen to recorded music is vinyl...and that Spotify is shitty. If you're gonna stream music (which is hard not to nowadays), go with YouTube. When you get to YouTube and you're searching for a song, music video, or album, make sure to search for HD and not SD.

So yeah, everybody can stop qualifying their opinions now. I wasn't talking about you.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

meccalecca — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:54:04 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:54

RepoMan wrote:

For me, I really cannot appreciate an album after one or two listens. In fact, most of my favorite albums are albums i HATED or was ambivalent to on the first couple of spins.

I feel the same exact way. Portishead's Third, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, Astral Weeks, Low's Drums & Guns were all albums that failed to sink in those first few listens. Spirit of Eden certainly wasn't a first listen revelation.

And this is why I find it a bit silly to write off an album completely after one listen.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:41:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:41

sp4cetiger wrote:

While there's an unhealthy tendency for older folks to dismiss technological changes out of hand, there's also an unhealthy tendency for the young to completely dismiss criticism of anything new. I really think the current state of music is far, far superior to anything previous, whether it's the CD era, the vinyl era, or pre-recording. However, I also think that there were legitimate sacrifices made each step of the way.

What I took from this article is not that I should only listen to vinyl records or only go to live shows (or that there's any "right" way to listen), but just to be aware of how I listen and the impact it has on my experience. For example, just because I have record B immediately available via Spotify doesn't mean I should give up on record A after 10 minutes of ambivalence. Just because I'm perfectly happy with my streamed digital recording doesn't mean that a live show or a vinyl record of the same music would have nothing to offer me. Most people here probably already know these things, but we're by no means a representative sample of the listening public.

Completely agree with the above. Also want to add the trade off of listening to only new stuff versus really digging into an album with multiple spins. For me, I really cannot appreciate an album after one or two listens. In fact, most of my favorite albums are albums i HATED or was ambivalent to on the first couple of spins including Daydream Nation, Slanted & Enchanted and Damaged - three of my favorite albums ever. While I would never argue that there is right way for everyone to listen to music, it's certainly okay for me to reflect on my own listening habits and what works for me and relate it to others.

Personally, this article has made me re-evaluate my approach to listening to music over this past year, and realize that I'm probably missing out by not taking more time with just a few albums at a time. I'll probably try to limit myself to two totally new spins a day.

Again, this is simply my approach which on some thought I realize works best for me as a music lover which I'm just relating to others.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Patman360 — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:38:05 GMT

Author: Patman360

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:38

RockyRaccoon wrote:

but just because something is new doesn't automatically make it flawless or an improvement.

Agreed, just look at Windows 8.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:34:43 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:34

sp4cetiger wrote:

While there's an unhealthy tendency for older folks to dismiss technological changes out of hand, there's also an unhealthy tendency for the young to completely dismiss criticism of anything new.

This is an important thing to remember in virtually all discussions like this.

There is a history of a previous generation dismissing and being critical of new technology that seems stupid now (Henry David Thoreau of the telegraph, Samuel Morse of the telephone, etc.) but just because something is new doesn't automatically make it flawless or an improvement.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

meccalecca — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:32:36 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:32

Skinny wrote:

but I've heard people claim in the past that unless you're listening to music in the highest possible quality that you can't possibly enjoy it or appreciate it fully, which is obviously just elitist poppycock.

Absolutely. Some of the best listening times come on road trips, listening through shitty car speakers. There's kids who listen to shitty quality mp3s on earbuds who probably get more enjoyment out of a Raffi song song than I will enjoy anything.

Not sure if you read Albini's keynote speech (I posted it in the music random chat), but he really makes an incredible case for the current state of music, and our newfound access to whatever our hearts desire. It's an amazing read.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:29:05 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:29

While there's an unhealthy tendency for older folks to dismiss technological changes out of hand, there's also an unhealthy tendency for the young to completely dismiss criticism of anything new. I really think the current state of music is far, far superior to anything previous, whether it's the CD era, the vinyl era, or pre-recording. However, I also think that there were legitimate sacrifices made each step of the way.

John Philip Sousa was very anti-recording because it took music out of the hands of the musicians. When he complained about it he came off like a cranky old fart, but he had a legitimate point. I don't think any of us would want to go back to the pre-recording days, but people would have done well to at least listen to Mr. Sousa because we're still dealing with the unpleasant ramifications of the early copyright laws.

What I took from this article is not that I should only listen to vinyl records or only go to live shows (or that there's any "right" way to listen), but just to be aware of how I listen and the impact it has on my experience. For example, just because I have record B immediately available via Spotify doesn't mean I should give up on record A after 10 minutes of ambivalence. Just because I'm perfectly happy with my streamed digital recording doesn't mean that a live show or a vinyl record of the same music would have nothing to offer me. Most people here probably already know these things, but we're by no means a representative sample of the listening public.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Skinny — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:26:11 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:26

meccalecca wrote:

I hope it's clear I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way to listen to things. Everyone's free to enjoy things however they want. That's the beauty of life.

Oh yeah, I'm not going to name names for the sake of not starting an argument, but I wasn't referring to you.

meccalecca wrote:

That's not to say a really good pair of headphones won't sound remarkably better than ear buds. There are variables that can actually effect your listening experience quite a bit. A great pair of Sennheisers and FLACs will offer a greater sonic experience than earbuds and low quality youtube streams. And this can actually be a deciding factor about how much you enjoy a record.

Oh certainly. I actually have a great pair of Sennheisers, and I pretty much refuse to download anything in lower quality than 320kpbs. But there are times when listening to music on YouTube is perfect for the moment and the environment, and this shouldn't be forgotten either. I stated somewhere else recently that I found listening to compressed versions of FlyLo's latest to have a massive impact on how much I enjoyed the album. My personal preference is for listening to music in high-quality as often as possible, but I've heard people claim in the past that unless you're listening to music in the highest possible quality that you can't possibly enjoy it or appreciate it fully, which is obviously just elitist poppycock.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:17:33 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:17

Completely agree with Skinny, there's really no "right" way to listen to music. There are ways we prefer, but no definitive way. I love listening to vinyls, I've probably got 200-300 of them, but I can't listen to them all the time, I can't listen to them in the car, walking somewhere, stuff like that. The convenience of digital forms of music far outweighs, in my opinion, any loss in quality you might have.

Also, I'd like to emphasize this point:

Skinny wrote:

I love music as background noise, and I love music as main event

Very much agree. I just love music in any and all forms.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

meccalecca — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:15:10 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 11/18/2014 16:15

Skinny wrote:

It's funny that quite a few users in this thread (though nowhere near everybody, thankfully) believe that there is a "right/proper way" to enjoy music.

I hope it's clear I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way to listen to things. Everyone's free to enjoy things however they want. That's the beauty of life.

That's not to say a really good pair of headphones won't sound remarkably better than ear buds. There are variables that can actually effect your listening experience quite a bit. A great pair of Sennheisers and FLACs will offer a greater sonic experience than earbuds and low quality youtube streams. And this can actually be a deciding factor about how much you enjoy a record.

Similarly, I do believe in the concept that digitally compressed audio files lead to listening fatigue a bit more than vinyl.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Skinny — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 10:11:36 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 11/18/2014 15:11

It's funny that quite a few users in this thread (though nowhere near everybody, thankfully) believe that there is a "right/proper way" to enjoy music. I listen to music in mp3, in FLAC, on CD, and on vinyl. I often stream music, and I often pay to own music on a physical format. I often never return to an album I've heard, and I often return to an album over and over again until I'm familiar with every quirk. I listen to many hundreds of new albums every year (both new releases and albums that are new to me), and I listen to many of them dozens of times. Sometimes I don't make even it through one sitting of certain albums, and sometimes that isn't even because I'm not enjoying it (I'll get called to do something whilst listening, and forget to ever return to the album in question). I go to watch as much live music as I can afford - often bands in the traditional sense, often rappers with a only a DJ for support, and often just DJs in clubs spinning tunes that they may or may not even have produced themselves. Live music is not inherently better or worse than recorded music. Music on vinyl is not inherently better or worse than music on mp3. All of these things have their pros and cons, and they each have their time in which they are the best way to appreciate music. I can't watch a live performance on the bus to work. I can't put on a vinyl record when I'm in the shower. I can't play a FLAC on my turntables. The beauty of music is that it can cater to most occasions, even sleep. Sure, you're not going to listen to music during an exam, or at the swimming pool, but during your free time there aren't too many moments into which music can't be incorporated. And the great thing about the state of music at the moment is that there are a number of ways in which to incorporate that music into those moments. I love my iPod. I love my turntables. I love the few local venues who go out of their way to book exciting bands and DJs who I want to see in a live setting. I love sampling a massive variety of new music, and I love taking comfort in old favourites, in whatever format I happen to listen to it in. I love being able to go to a friend's house and take it in turns with mates to pick songs on YouTube whilst getting high as fuck, regardless of the audio quality. Similarly, I love sitting in front of my dad's amazing set-up, picking something from his vast vinyl collection, and sitting down to listen intently with a glass of Rioja. I love music as background noise, and I love music as main event. The way people listen to music in 2014 is not any better or worse than they way they listened to music in 1974 - it's just different. Everybody always believes that their preferred way of doing things is the best way to do things, and the fantastic thing is that they can all be right about that. So do what you do, enjoy listening to music the way that you enjoy listening to music, and allow others to do the same, without telling them that they're doing it wrong, or that they could be doing it better, or that they'd be better served seeing it live, or listening to it in FLAC, or going out and buying it on vinyl, or doing so via a certain pair of headphones, or listening to it with their eyes closed in a dark room where they can give their full concentration to it. Everybody has different needs and wants - in fact, each person has hundreds and thousands of different needs and wants, for hundreds and thousands of different occasions - and everybody is therefore going to enjoy music in a different way. Whatever way you choose to enjoy music, even if that means barely listen to music because you don't really enjoy music, is fine. If it works for you, that's brilliant. Keep doing what you're doing.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 10:00:35 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/18/2014 15:00

SquishypuffDave wrote:

"What we lose with our new formats and habits for listening to music is a piece of ourselves; the musical part you keep in your heart, not your pocket."

I threw up in my mouth a little bit. This article is pure fetishism.

Haha! That's total Velveeta.

Re: "Listening online might totally neuter music's power&qu

davidhuret — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:48:30 GMT

Author: davidhuret

Posted: 11/18/2014 14:48

StreetSpirit wrote:

I suppose we can agree with the article that the best way to listen to recorded music is vinyl...

With the cracks and pops that spoil (for me) the enjoyment? I like the vinyl format for the artwork but to listen to... I'll choose a well-mastered cd anytime. Or better formats like dvd-a or blu ray audio. High-res. digital files too.